Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#61 Nov 13, 2012
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem here is what to do with the remaining 6% "non-Christians". Basically, their inclusion means that "non-Christian" are just as responsible.
If 10 kids vandalize public property, get caught; 8 of them of the Ba'hai faith, 1 from the Rastafarian religion, 1 from an atheist family; all parents are going to be called and held responsible. They are not going to exclude the Rasta and atheist parents because they are in the minority/
The problem here is…

…that a man like Hitler was able to come to power in a country that was 94% Christian. You can try to talk your way around that fact but you can’t make it go away.

“I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian.…he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the ‘Lord's work’.”- Anne Nicol Gaylor
Job

San Jose, CA

#62 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem here is…
…that a man like Hitler was able to come to power in a country that was 94% Christian. You can try to talk your way around that fact but you can’t make it go away.
“I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian.…he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the ‘Lord's work’.”- Anne Nicol Gaylor
You mean the "Freedom From Religion" Anne Nicol Gaylor? The one who paid for all those genocide/aborting of children?

My guess would be that Hitler would not have acted any different than Tung, Pot, or Stalin.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#63 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
What if the Muslims are right and the Christians are wrong where does that leave you?
The Egyptians believed in an afterlife and the ancient Greeks believed they would go to the Elysian Fields and the Vikings to Valhalla and none of these beliefs were based any kind of rational evidence but merely on the fear of death the inability to accept death as final.
"I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. No agnostic ever burned anyone at the stake…”- Daniel J. Boorstin, American historian
<quoted text>
Science is based observation, experimentation and objective rational evidence. Scientists don’t accept each other’s claims on the basis of divine revelation.
"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." ~Carl Sagan
There would be no order if there wasnt a Creator. What I mean is we as a people wouldnt it (mostly) want to be good and do good things. Such as can you go and rape three women and feel good about yourself? Probably not. You may enjoy sex but that still wouldnt make you feel good. What is that inside? Is that the universe doing that? Doubtful because the universe isnt a life force. It doesnt move walk talk breathe you know LIVE.

Therefore I do not believe people are here to live life as they choose with no consequences. For instance I kill a thousand people and get away with it all. Then what happens? Nothing? I just get away with it? Naw I dont think so. So it may not be exactly as we deem it. That Hell is for an eternity or hell is fire and brimstone. But at the same time there is a punishment after life and a reward. This is my belief

There are some things you cant observe. You cant observe the WHOLE universe yet they say that it goes on and on and on without end. How do they know if they cant observe it? Maybe Im an amateur on this issue and theres a reason they come to this conclusion but Im 100% sure they cannot observe all of the universe.

Mr Sagans quote is ridiculous.First off in 2 of the 3 major religions there is no image for the god of said religions. Christianity does because Jesus is kinda described in the book of Revelation. Secondly, laws cant just exist without being created. Thats like finding something in the shape of a chair or dining table just in nature made out of wood. Would you find this? Maybe so. Doesnt it mean someone created it to be that since those things do not happen "randomly"? Yes it would. Order does not come out of nothing. It shows Divine intervention
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#64 Nov 13, 2012
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the "Freedom From Religion" Anne Nicol Gaylor? The one who paid for all those genocide/aborting of children?
Oh yes…compassion for unborn fetuses but excuses for the murder of “already-born” Jews.
Job wrote:
My guess would be that Hitler would not have acted any different than Tung, Pot, or Stalin.
He would have had no reason to be anti-Semitic. Christians invented anti-Semitism.

In 376 CE St. Hilary Bishop of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever.

In 380 CE the Roman Emperor Theodosius I made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire and permitted the destruction of synagogues.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#65 Nov 13, 2012
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
There would be no order if there wasnt a Creator. What I mean is we as a people wouldnt it (mostly) want to be good and do good things. Such as can you go and rape three women and feel good about yourself? Probably not. You may enjoy sex but that still wouldnt make you feel good. What is that inside? Is that the universe doing that? Doubtful because the universe isnt a life force. It doesnt move walk talk breathe you know LIVE.
Therefore I do not believe people are here to live life as they choose with no consequences. For instance I kill a thousand people and get away with it all. Then what happens? Nothing? I just get away with it? Naw I dont think so. So it may not be exactly as we deem it. That Hell is for an eternity or hell is fire and brimstone. But at the same time there is a punishment after life and a reward. This is my belief
I would suggest that if the hope of reward and the fear of punishment is our only motivation our intelligence has not progressed much beyond that of the animals. You can train a dog to be good with reward and punishment.

'If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein
Flygerian wrote:
There are some things you cant observe. You cant observe the WHOLE universe yet they say that it goes on and on and on without end. How do they know if they cant observe it? Maybe Im an amateur on this issue and theres a reason they come to this conclusion but Im 100% sure they cannot observe all of the universe.
“Infinities and indivisibles transcend our finite understanding…”- Galileo Galilei
Flygerian wrote:
Mr Sagans quote is ridiculous.First off in 2 of the 3 major religions there is no image for the god of said religions. Christianity does because Jesus is kinda described in the book of Revelation. Secondly, laws cant just exist without being created. Thats like finding something in the shape of a chair or dining table just in nature made out of wood. Would you find this? Maybe so. Doesnt it mean someone created it to be that since those things do not happen "randomly"? Yes it would. Order does not come out of nothing. It shows Divine intervention
Mr. Sagan proved himself to be a very good thinker. The point Mr. Sagan was trying to make was that we don’t need to imagine some sort of “super human” type of god (Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Allah) when we can just accept the physical laws that govern the universe as they are. We don’t have to believe in gravity. It is there whether we believe in it or not. Gods are not. They require belief.

"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation.”- Albert Einstein
Job

San Jose, CA

#66 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
1. <quoted text>
Oh yes…compassion for unborn fetuses but excuses for the murder of “already-born” Jews.

2. <quoted text>
He would have had no reason to be anti-Semitic. Christians invented anti-Semitism.
In 376 CE St. Hilary Bishop of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever.
In 380 CE the Roman Emperor Theodosius I made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire and permitted the destruction of synagogues.
1. I'm not making excuses. It was a horrible event, and it was wrong for Christians and non-Christians alike to have condoned it. But using a quote from someone who wrote a book called "Abortion Is A Blessing" is not a good idea. It doesn't matter which is worse between killing fetuses, and killing those living outside of the womb. Genocide is genocide.

But it's not really clear what your objective is. I'm guessing that it allows you further excuse to reject the Gospel. But I don't understand the concept of mass dialogue directed at that particular event, at the same time ignoring the atrocities committed by those who promote "non-religion".

2. Actually no, anti-semitism goes back to the ancient NME civilizations. That's obvious.

And yes Hitler would have had reason. He had a number of accusations against them including the decline of Germany's economy. Stalin was also an anti-semitist by virtue of historical record. And he had various reasons as well.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#67 Nov 13, 2012
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I'm not making excuses. It was a horrible event, and it was wrong for Christians and non-Christians alike to have condoned it. But using a quote from someone who wrote a book called "Abortion Is A Blessing" is not a good idea. It doesn't matter which is worse between killing fetuses, and killing those living outside of the womb. Genocide is genocide.
But it's not really clear what your objective is. I'm guessing that it allows you further excuse to reject the Gospel. But I don't understand the concept of mass dialogue directed at that particular event, at the same time ignoring the atrocities committed by those who promote "non-religion".
2. Actually no, anti-semitism goes back to the ancient NME civilizations. That's obvious.
And yes Hitler would have had reason. He had a number of accusations against them including the decline of Germany's economy. Stalin was also an anti-semitist by virtue of historical record. And he had various reasons as well.
Stalin was also raised a Christian and attended Georgian Orthodox seminary. He became an atheist and was just as anti-Christian, anti-Islam and anti-Buddhist as he was anti-Semitic.

Christianity ruled the Western World from the 4th century to the 18th and the results were spectacularly less than benevolent.

"As editor of the largest newspaper in West Virginia, I scan hundreds of reports daily and I am amazed by the frequency with which religion causes people to kill each other. It is a nearly universal pattern, undercutting the common assumption that religion makes people kind and tolerant." - James Haught, The Charleston Gazette

"Organized Christianity has probably done more to retard the ideals that were its founder's than any other agency in the world." - Richard Le Gallienne
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#68 Nov 13, 2012
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What constitutes winning a battle in these scenarios of discussing the issue of God's existence? At least with football there's a point system that designated an ultimate win. The problem with the idea of winning a discussion has it's problems.

Many people viewed Romney as the winner of various debates with Obama. Yet Obama became the president.

2. There's mixed messages because there are 2 sources, God and Satan. And of course this concept is going to be even more problematic for you because you can only 'barely' acknowledge the slightest fraction of a possibility that merely "God" exists. And even then He's more of an entity mistaken for a God.
3. The New Agers have a completely different message. But it's actually common with other religions. The overall messages with "new age" is that we are, and/or can achieve levels of godhood. I don't deny that they have 'legitimate' spiritual encounters. Just not from the creator Himself.
1. Sarcasm. I keep forgetting how poorly sarcasm plays around here. My bad.

The "battles" I refer to are the proof ones. As proof is generally defined, and not arbitrarily defined by Religions.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#69 Nov 13, 2012
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the same way atheists claim their belief is proof? The "onus" is not on anyone. If you want me to prove to you that He exists and ALWAYS has how come I cant hold you to the same standard and ask you to PROVE He doesnt exist? Because you say so?
Atheism is not the SAME type of Belief as is one in Gods. No more than faith in a car operating properly is the same as Faith in a God, or even faith in a loved one. There are gradations to faith.

I disbelieve that Gods and/or anything supernatural has been proved. Could it possibly exist...? Sure. But nothing that has been put forth as "proof" convinces me. And the biggest weight on that scale is the complete lack of any hard evidence for either Gods, or the supernatural. Calling something unexplained or mysterious, or divine is not now or ever has been hard, solid proof of any Gods or the supernatural.

You claim existence, I say no. Only the completely stupid dont see the huge difference in the two - and why the onus is always on the one making a claim of existence.

I say Im invisible. You cant see me can you? My claim is proof by your logic.

There are people on TV who call themselves BigFoot Hunters. I call them idiots running thru the woods. Why? Because no one has ever hunted one down! You cant call yourself a Hunter of an imaginary creature and demand all the claims are true - without driving into town with a BigFoot tied across your truck!

Same holds for Believers in Gods.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#70 Nov 13, 2012
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Comparing a tooth fairy to a Creator that put things in order? Yea thats logical lol. Nonetheless when speaking in THIS SENSE yes its up to you to prove nonexistence just as you want others to prove existence. You cant have it one way but not the other.
That quote may be that guys opinion but its ridiculous lol. Nothing comes into ORDER out of nothing
A tooth drops out I get a quarter. Not a bad deal in my book. I slightly offend your God and I get smoted! Some teenager jerks off and gets killed an hour later - does eternity with his crotch on fire.

Lost tooth = quarter.

Make a mistake = spend an eternity smelling pube smoke.

Hmm...
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#71 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem here is…
…that a man like Hitler was able to come to power in a country that was 94% Christian. You can try to talk your way around that fact but you can’t make it go away.
“I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian.…he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the ‘Lord's work’.”- Anne Nicol Gaylor
Even though people claim to be something does not mean they really are. The other thing to consider is that Hitler had the power to suppress organization and people he did not like. What did the agnostics do to stop Hitler? Can you name any?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#72 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Stalin was also raised a Christian and attended Georgian Orthodox seminary. He became an atheist and was just as anti-Christian, anti-Islam and anti-Buddhist as he was anti-Semitic.
Christianity ruled the Western World from the 4th century to the 18th and the results were spectacularly less than benevolent.
"As editor of the largest newspaper in West Virginia, I scan hundreds of reports daily and I am amazed by the frequency with which religion causes people to kill each other. It is a nearly universal pattern, undercutting the common assumption that religion makes people kind and tolerant." - James Haught, The Charleston Gazette
"Organized Christianity has probably done more to retard the ideals that were its founder's than any other agency in the world." - Richard Le Gallienne
The last statement by Le Gallienne is rubbish. Christianity's impact on the world for good is incalculable. It founded hospitals, brought education to the poor, founded colleges and influenced the laws of countries for good. Do you know any agnostics or atheists have done anything like this for the past 2000 years? How about the last 500 years?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#73 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest that if the hope of reward and the fear of punishment is our only motivation our intelligence has not progressed much beyond that of the animals. You can train a dog to be good with reward and punishment.
'If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein
<quoted text>
“Infinities and indivisibles transcend our finite understanding…”- Galileo Galilei
<quoted text>
Mr. Sagan proved himself to be a very good thinker. The point Mr. Sagan was trying to make was that we don’t need to imagine some sort of “super human” type of god (Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Allah) when we can just accept the physical laws that govern the universe as they are. We don’t have to believe in gravity. It is there whether we believe in it or not. Gods are not. They require belief.
"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation.”- Albert Einstein
What is your motivation for doing good?
The problem that Sagan had was that he could not even begin to explain why the physical laws of nature are the way they are. Even Einstein could be foolish-- just because he can't conceive of something does not mean its not true. This shows that even smart people can be fools.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#74 Nov 13, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
The last statement by Le Gallienne is rubbish. Christianity's impact on the world for good is incalculable. It founded hospitals, brought education to the poor, founded colleges and influenced the laws of countries for good. Do you know any agnostics or atheists have done anything like this for the past 2000 years? How about the last 500 years?
In ancient cultures, religion and medicine were linked. The earliest documented institutions aiming to provide cures were ancient Egyptian temples. In ancient Greece, temples dedicated to the healer-god Asclepius, known as Asclepieia (Ancient Greek: &#7944;&#963;&#954 ;&#955;&#951;&#960 ;&#953;&#949;&#815 0;&#945;, sing. Asclepieion, &#7944;&#963;&#954 ;&#955;&#951;&#960 ;&#953;&#949;&#815 0;&#959;&#957;), functioned as centers of medical advice, prognosis, and healing.[3] At these shrines, patients would enter a dream-like state of induced sleep known as enkoimesis (&#7952;&#947;&#95 4;&#959;&#943;&#95 6;&#951;&#963;&#95 3;&#962;) not unlike anesthesia, in which they either received guidance from the deity in a dream or were cured by surgery.[4] Asclepeia provided carefully controlled spaces conducive to healing and fulfilled several of the requirements of institutions created for healing.[5] In the Asclepieion of Epidaurus, three large marble boards dated to 350 BC preserve the names, case histories, complaints, and cures of about 70 patients who came to the temple with a problem and shed it there. Some of the surgical cures listed, such as the opening of an abdominal abscess or the removal of traumatic foreign material, are realistic enough to have taken place, but with the patient in a state of enkoimesis induced with the help of soporific substances such as opium.[4] The worship of Asclepius was adopted by the Romans. Under his Roman name Æsculapius, he was provided with a temple (291 BC) on an island in the Tiber in Rome, where similar rites were performed.[6]
Institutions created specifically to care for the ill also appeared early in India. Fa Xian, a Chinese Buddhist monk who travelled across India ca. 400 CE, recorded in his travelogue [7] that
"The heads of the Vaisya [merchant] families in them [all the kingdoms of north India] establish in the cities houses for dispensing charity and medicine. All the poor and destitute in the country, orphans, widowers, and childless men, maimed people and cripples, and all who are diseased, go to those houses, and are provided with every kind of help, and doctors examine their diseases. They get the food and medicines which their cases require, and are made to feel at ease; and when they are better, they go away of themselves."
The earliest surviving encyclopedia of medicine in Sanskrit is the Carakasamhita (Compendium of Caraka). This text, which describes the building of a hospital is dated by Dominik Wujastyk of the University College London from the period between 100 BCE and CE150.[8] According to Dr.Wujastyk, the description by Fa Xian is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be equipped, suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized cosmopolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.[8]

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#75 Nov 13, 2012
King Ashoka is said to have founded at least eighteen hospitals ca. 230 B.C., with physicians and nursing staff, the expense being borne by the royal treasury.[9] Stanley Finger (2001) in his book, Origins of Neuroscience: A History of Explorations Into Brain Function, cites an Ashokan edict translated as: "Everywhere King Piyadasi (Asoka) erected two kinds of hospitals, hospitals for people and hospitals for animals. Where there were no healing herbs for people and animals, he ordered that they be bought and planted."[10] However Dominik Wujastyk disputes this, arguing that the edict indicates that Ashoka built rest houses (for travellers) instead of hospitals, and that this was misinterpreted due to the reference to medical herbs.

According to the Mahavamsa, the ancient chronicle of Sinhalese royalty, written in the sixth century A.D., King Pandukabhaya of Sri Lanka (reigned 437 BC to 367 BC) had lying-in-homes and hospitals (Sivikasotthi-Sala) built in various parts of the country. This is the earliest documentary evidence we have of institutions specifically dedicated to the care of the sick anywhere in the world.[11][12] Mihintale Hospital is the oldest in the world.[13] Ruins of ancient hospitals in Sri Lanka are still in existence in Mihintale, Anuradhapura, and Medirigiriya.[14]

The first teaching hospital where students were authorized to practice methodically on patients under the supervision of physicians as part of their education, was the Academy of Gundishapur in the Persian Empire. One expert has argued that "to a very large extent, the credit for the whole hospital system must be given to Persia".[15]

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#76 Nov 13, 2012
In ancient cultures, religion and medicine were linked. The earliest documented institutions aiming to provide cures were ancient Egyptian temples. In ancient Greece, temples dedicated to the healer-god Asclepius, known as Asclepieia (Ancient Greek: &#7944;&#963;&#954 ;&#955;&#951;&#960 ;&#953;&#949;&#815 0;&#945;, sing. Asclepieion, &#7944;&#963;&#954 ;&#955;&#951;&#960 ;&#953;&#949;&#815 0;&#959;&#957;), functioned as centers of medical advice, prognosis, and healing.[3] At these shrines, patients would enter a dream-like state of induced sleep known as enkoimesis (&#7952;&#947;&#95 4;&#959;&#943;&#95 6;&#951;&#963;&#95 3;&#962;) not unlike anesthesia, in which they either received guidance from the deity in a dream or were cured by surgery.[4] Asclepeia provided carefully controlled spaces conducive to healing and fulfilled several of the requirements of institutions created for healing.[5] In the Asclepieion of Epidaurus, three large marble boards dated to 350 BC preserve the names, case histories, complaints, and cures of about 70 patients who came to the temple with a problem and shed it there. Some of the surgical cures listed, such as the opening of an abdominal abscess or the removal of traumatic foreign material, are realistic enough to have taken place, but with the patient in a state of enkoimesis induced with the help of soporific substances such as opium.[4] The worship of Asclepius was adopted by the Romans. Under his Roman name Æsculapius, he was provided with a temple (291 BC) on an island in the Tiber in Rome, where similar rites were performed.[6]

Institutions created specifically to care for the ill also appeared early in India. Fa Xian, a Chinese Buddhist monk who travelled across India ca. 400 CE, recorded in his travelogue [7] that


"The heads of the Vaisya [merchant] families in them [all the kingdoms of north India] establish in the cities houses for dispensing charity and medicine. All the poor and destitute in the country, orphans, widowers, and childless men, maimed people and cripples, and all who are diseased, go to those houses, and are provided with every kind of help, and doctors examine their diseases. They get the food and medicines which their cases require, and are made to feel at ease; and when they are better, they go away of themselves."

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#77 Nov 13, 2012
The earliest surviving encyclopedia of medicine in Sanskrit is the Carakasamhita (Compendium of Caraka). This text, which describes the building of a hospital is dated by Dominik Wujastyk of the University College London from the period between 100 BCE and CE150.[8] According to Dr.Wujastyk, the description by Fa Xian is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be equipped, suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized cosmopolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital

Jeff, please don't make historical claims unless you know they're true.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#78 Nov 13, 2012
tickedoffchic wrote:
The earliest surviving encyclopedia of medicine in Sanskrit is the Carakasamhita (Compendium of Caraka). This text, which describes the building of a hospital is dated by Dominik Wujastyk of the University College London from the period between 100 BCE and CE150.[8] According to Dr.Wujastyk, the description by Fa Xian is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be equipped, suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized cosmopolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital
Jeff, please don't make historical claims unless you know they're true.
Were these "hospitals" for the poor? Were they for people in the lowest castes?
Be careful what you read. Notice what the last sentence says--"suggests that India.." This statement tells us they are not sure and we have no reason to think in India that the poor were getting help since they were considered untouchable.
How atheists? What good has atheism done for the past 2000 years?

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#79 Nov 13, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Were these "hospitals" for the poor? Were they for people in the lowest castes?
Be careful what you read. Notice what the last sentence says--"suggests that India.." This statement tells us they are not sure and we have no reason to think in India that the poor were getting help since they were considered untouchable.
How atheists? What good has atheism done for the past 2000 years?
You're just attempting to obfuscate. The info. says charities were set up for the poor in many of these countries.

Admit it, you are wrong. Christianity was not the first in setting up hospitals and charities. You should really develop an interest in history. It would keep you from making so many false statements.

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#80 Nov 13, 2012
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem here is…
…that a man like Hitler was able to come to power in a country that was 94% Christian. You can try to talk your way around that fact but you can’t make it go away.
“I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian.…he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the ‘Lord's work’.”- Anne Nicol Gaylor
Actually, you need to do some reading. If you study Germany, the German people after WWI were decimated. The Govt was in ruin and there were many political parties trying to gain control. Being "Christian" meant nothing as they were looking for someone to bring them out of the depression.(Which he did handily)...

How many of the SS do you speculate were Christian? I would guess none of them if I were a betting man...

I learned something this fall while visiting family there. My father born in 1920, was a member of the Kriegsmarine serving from 1938 on a Frigate and then commissioned to a U-Boat as a radio operator until his capture in 1941.He spent 5 yrs in AZ as a POW, 1 yr in England and got home in 1947. He worked in Germany for 2yrs before moving to CN because he was so afraid that Germany was going to go to war again.

Because of that, he never let us watch the news when the Vietnam war was on TV.

He was anti war.
He was anti Jew.
He was anti religious.

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