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601 - 620 of 1,305 Comments Last updated Feb 8, 2013
Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#618
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Gillette wrote:
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I just TOLD you that I think (as do many, but not ALL, people on this planet) that what they did was evil, according to OUR morality. NOT according to theirs.
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PROVE there is a "higher authority." All you have is opinion on this. You imagine there is one, then attribute morality to it.
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I just DID. I told you that, according to MY MORAL VALUES, what the Nazis did was wrong.
What the hell is wrong with you? This isn't that hard to grasp ... really!
Calling something evil is not the same thing as proving something is evil. To prove something evil, you have to have an objective standard. That you cannot get in your moral system. In your moral system, anything can be justified since there is no such thing as an objective standard. All you can say is that you didn't like what the Nazis did. You have no way to determine if your moral system is superior to the Nazis.
There is plenty of evidence for the God of Christianity. We start with creation and then see how God has revealed Himself specially in history. That's why the Bible is so important since it is a record of what God is like. The 10 commandments is an objective standard for all of mankind since they were given by God. By this objective standard I can say that what the Nazis did was wrong because what they did was a violation of the Law of God in which all men are accountable to.

Since: Apr 07

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#619
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Can be time, money, resources and maybe your life.
You have just illustrated, again, that you have no moral values.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#620
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Calling something evil is not the same thing as proving something is evil. To prove something evil, you have to have an objective standard. That you cannot get in your moral system.
Nor can you in your moral system. that's the point. You just ASSERT you have an absolute standard. You can't prove it -- or even EXPLAIN it coherently.

And it starts with proving, by empirical, verifiable evidence, that your God exists.
Jeff wrote:
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In your moral system, anything can be justified since there is no such thing as an objective standard.
But there is a SUBJECTIVE standard, and by that standard, I can assert, unequivocally, that what the Nazis did was WRONG.
Jeff wrote:
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All you can say is that you didn't like what the Nazis did. You have no way to determine if your moral system is superior to the Nazis.
You are in the same boat! That's all YOU can say too!

And I certainly think my morals are superior to those of the Nazi. But they would have said the opposite, wouldn't they? See? Morality is RELATIVE.
Jeff wrote:
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There is plenty of evidence for the God of Christianity.
Bullshit. You have no objective, empirical evidence that your God exists, any more than the Muslims have evidence that their Allah exists, etc. etc.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#621
Nov 29, 2012
 

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tickedoffchic wrote:
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You have just illustrated, again, that you have no moral values.
How so?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#622
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Gillette wrote:
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Nor can you in your moral system. that's the point. You just ASSERT you have an absolute standard. You can't prove it -- or even EXPLAIN it coherently.
And it starts with proving, by empirical, verifiable evidence, that your God exists.
<quoted text>
But there is a SUBJECTIVE standard, and by that standard, I can assert, unequivocally, that what the Nazis did was WRONG.
<quoted text>
You are in the same boat! That's all YOU can say too!
And I certainly think my morals are superior to those of the Nazi. But they would have said the opposite, wouldn't they? See? Morality is RELATIVE.
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Bullshit. You have no objective, empirical evidence that your God exists, any more than the Muslims have evidence that their Allah exists, etc. etc.
I have proved my objective moral standard by pointing to the God of Christianity which has excellent support for the existence of God.(Creation, fine tuning of the universe, origin of life, the over 30 characteristics that make life possible here, the resurrection of Christ, the life of Christ and the Scripture). What you need to do is to refute it with facts or present another belief system that is superior with facts.
What kind of evidence is needed to prove the existence of God?

Iím not in the same boat as you. Iím appealing to the highest authority which can only be God Himself.
On what grounds are you going to prove your morals are superior to the Nazis? Opinions and assertions carry no weight.

Since: Apr 07

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#623
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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How so?
Read your previous posts. You believe that no one would do anything to help others without the "promise of reward' in the afterlife. Additionally, you last post shows you to be a very selfish person.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

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#624
Nov 29, 2012
 

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tickedoffchic wrote:
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You have just illustrated, again, that you have no moral values.
No, he doesn't. In 2012 twenty-two Tibetans, mostly monastics, have set themselves ablaze protesting the situation in Tibet. Nineteen other, mostly in India, have done the same for other reasons.

In all probability these folks were were motivated by high moral values but I wouldn't say they were acting wisely. Of course that's not for me to say.

Jesus would no doubt have been aware of a Buddhist cleric setting himself ablaze in Antioch in 13 AD as a demonstration of the strength of his beliefs. Plutarch reported seeing the grave and recorded the inscription: The sramana master from Barygaza in India.

Since: Apr 07

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#625
Nov 29, 2012
 

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typo, post 623: you=your

Since: Apr 07

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#626
Nov 29, 2012
 

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15th Dalai Lama wrote:
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No, he doesn't. In 2012 twenty-two Tibetans, mostly monastics, have set themselves ablaze protesting the situation in Tibet. Nineteen other, mostly in India, have done the same for other reasons.
In all probability these folks were were motivated by high moral values but I wouldn't say they were acting wisely. Of course that's not for me to say.
Jesus would no doubt have been aware of a Buddhist cleric setting himself ablaze in Antioch in 13 AD as a demonstration of the strength of his beliefs. Plutarch reported seeing the grave and recorded the inscription: The sramana master from Barygaza in India.
Oh, he's just flimflamming for his chosen heretical beliefs.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

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#627
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Gillette wrote:
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Nor can you in your moral system. that's the point. You just ASSERT you have an absolute standard. You can't prove it -- or even EXPLAIN it coherently.
And it starts with proving, by empirical, verifiable evidence, that your God exists.
<quoted text>
But there is a SUBJECTIVE standard, and by that standard, I can assert, unequivocally, that what the Nazis did was WRONG.
<quoted text>
You are in the same boat! That's all YOU can say too!
And I certainly think my morals are superior to those of the Nazi. But they would have said the opposite, wouldn't they? See? Morality is RELATIVE.

Bullshit. You have no objective, empirical evidence that your God exists, any more than the Muslims have evidence that their Allah exists, etc. etc.
Hi Gillette. The problem is Jeff doesn't understand a word you're saying with one possible exception.

The first two words of the Hebrew Bible translate as 'In the beginning God' so the whole system hinges on the a priori assumption that God exists. What the fundies vehemently refuse to admit is that it is an assumption.
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Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#628
Nov 29, 2012
 

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tickedoffchic wrote:
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Read your previous posts. You believe that no one would do anything to help others without the "promise of reward' in the afterlife. Additionally, you last post shows you to be a very selfish person.
Here is my previous post:
"janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff: "To do good require sacrifice for the most part."
What has to be sacrificed in order to do good?"

My response: "Can be time, money, resources and maybe your life."

How does this lead you to conclude that I am a "very selfish person"?

Why do good if this is the only life you have? Why waste resources if everyday you live brings you one day closer to non-existence?

Since: Apr 07

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#629
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is my previous post:
"janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff: "To do good require sacrifice for the most part."
What has to be sacrificed in order to do good?"
My response: "Can be time, money, resources and maybe your life."
How does this lead you to conclude that I am a "very selfish person"?
Why do good if this is the only life you have? Why waste resources if everyday you live brings you one day closer to non-existence?
Your opinions are totally selfish. If you can't see that, it's your problem.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#630
Nov 29, 2012
 

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tickedoffchic wrote:
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Your opinions are totally selfish. If you can't see that, it's your problem.
Weak. Very very weak.

Since: Apr 07

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#631
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Weak. Very very weak.
No, my reponse was not weak. Why do you think the only reason for helping someone would depend on a promise of a reward in the afterlife? Thats ridiculous!

Since: Jun 12

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#632
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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I thought you were going to quit the forums. Were disappointed you didn't. You still can ya know.
That was FSM you moron.

And that was a mighty hateful remark for someone who CLAIMS to be a "Christian".

Since: Jun 12

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#633
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Morals can be absolute when they are grounded in the very nature of God. Only by appealing to a higher being than man can they be absolute.
This is why your kind has such problems with morals. They are all relative and you cannot claim one moral system is superior to another or that the morals of another system are evil.
Still making up your stupid sh*t I see.

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#634
Nov 29, 2012
 

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janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff: "To do good require sacrifice for the most part."
What has to be sacrificed in order to do good?
Good question!
Jeff wrote:
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Can be time, money, resources and maybe your life.
Crappy answer!

Shows that you do NOT serve God since you feel that helping other's along the road of life is a "sacrifice" of physical things.

Since: Jun 12

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#635
Nov 29, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Calling something evil is not the same thing as proving something is evil.
Calling someone "god" is not the same thing as proving someone is "god".
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#636
Nov 30, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Why do good if this is the only life you have? Why waste resources if everyday you live brings you one day closer to non-existence?
Because we know from practical experience in our own lives and in the history of the world that when we engage in altruistic behavior -- not stealing from one another, not killing one another, sharing food when necessary, etc.-- that life in our society is more peaceful and pleasant and we can live a more comfortable life, to which we each give meaning in our own way.

Simple, really.

How long will you repeat the tired, thoughtless fundamentalist Christian canard that the lives of atheists can have no real meaning when they all tell you, over and over again, that their lives have OLENTY of meaning, thank you very much?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#637
Nov 30, 2012
 
"PLENTY," that is.

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