common sense, reason & science are w...

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#597 Nov 29, 2012
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
I can honestly say I have never met a Jesuit. But in my state that's not uncommon.
Punisher's right. They're tough. Less than half of my freshman class actually made it to graduation, most got tossed to the public school system. On the plus side, one hundred percent of the graduation class went on to college and we're talking places like Notre Dame, Harvard, MIT and Oxford. With only two science degrees from state universities I would probably be considered one of the failures.

God bless you.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#598 Nov 29, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Yep!
Good morning, Nettiebelle.

I don't buy it. Job is characterized by his goofy 'What if Jimmy Hoffa showed up at your door with a crowbar?' scenarios and Jeff is mired in his 'If the The Lord of the Rings is not historically accurate, nothing is' scenario.

God bless Job and Jeff, whoever they are.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#599 Nov 29, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning, Nettiebelle.
I don't buy it. Job is characterized by his goofy 'What if Jimmy Hoffa showed up at your door with a crowbar?' scenarios and Jeff is mired in his 'If the The Lord of the Rings is not historically accurate, nothing is' scenario.
God bless Job and Jeff, whoever they are.
Good morning, 15th,
Whatever 'Jeff' is, he is not legit for sure.
:)

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#600 Nov 29, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Good morning, 15th,
Whatever 'Jeff' is, he is not legit for sure.
:)
Jeff's a gem. It's a sorry state of affairs when I've run out of ways to ridicule the ridiculous but I must accept defeat with dignity. You're a gem, too, but much more precious.

I still haven't decided what to do about that sacristan thing. I think I'll pray a Rosary and get back to you in a while.

I'm glad to hear your momma rebounded. Gloria's mom made it to ninety-four, I think. Life wouldn't be worth living if it didn't come to an end sooner or later.

God bless you.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#601 Nov 29, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff's a gem. It's a sorry state of affairs when I've run out of ways to ridicule the ridiculous but I must accept defeat with dignity. You're a gem, too, but much more precious.
I still haven't decided what to do about that sacristan thing. I think I'll pray a Rosary and get back to you in a while.
I'm glad to hear your momma rebounded. Gloria's mom made it to ninety-four, I think. Life wouldn't be worth living if it didn't come to an end sooner or later.
God bless you.
Thank you, 15th.
You are right.
And, I know for certain that, with its ups and downs, my mother made the best life she could for herself and us also with the handicaps of when, where she was born, the education she had, the limited opportunities she had growing up, etc.
She gave it all her best shot.:)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#602 Nov 29, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
They sounded alike. And you're right. And when he's defeated, he changes the subject.
He is perhaps the master at avoidance and obfuscation/made up sh*t.
OKAY

Houston, TX

#603 Nov 29, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
I am perhaps the master at avoidance and obfuscation/made up sh*t.
Wow! 2 times in one day. There is a GOD!!!
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#604 Nov 29, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
If what you say is true then you could never say the holocaust was evil. You could never say rape is evil either. One has the moral opinion these things are wrong and another has the opinion they are not. Its all relative.
Yes, it's all relative. Most people in the world think the Holocaust was evil, by our own personal relative standard, but there are plenty today who still hate Jews and who (secretly) DON'T think it was evil.

The Nazis, of course, had no moral problem with killing Jews. They thought they were doing good for the world.

See what I mean? Morality is RELATIVE.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#606 Nov 29, 2012
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it's all relative. Most people in the world think the Holocaust was evil, by our own personal relative standard, but there are plenty today who still hate Jews and who (secretly) DON'T think it was evil.
The Nazis, of course, had no moral problem with killing Jews. They thought they were doing good for the world.
See what I mean? Morality is RELATIVE.
It might be a more complex situation when it comes to morality?
Group thinking and the ruling ideology within the group is important, but like you say; some individuals might think otherwise and still hide what they are thinking due to group pressure.
Then we have the fundamental level of empathy that everybody possesses, except for some very few sociopaths.
At least 95% of us know instinctively what is right or wrong, at least secretly.
Many of those who participated in the evils towards Jews and others during ww2 suffered from sadness and regrets for years, probably as long as they lived.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#607 Nov 29, 2012
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
It might be a more complex situation when it comes to morality?
Group thinking and the ruling ideology within the group is important, but like you say; some individuals might think otherwise and still hide what they are thinking due to group pressure.
Then we have the fundamental level of empathy that everybody possesses, except for some very few sociopaths.
At least 95% of us know instinctively what is right or wrong, at least secretly.
Many of those who participated in the evils towards Jews and others during ww2 suffered from sadness and regrets for years, probably as long as they lived.
Can;t argue with any of that, but I;m still waiting for one of the evangelical Christians (or anyone else) to show me how morality can be :absolute" in any way. I

Ideas of right and wrong are still and always in the individual, relative minds of human beings.
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#608 Nov 29, 2012
“The laws of conscience, which we pretend to be derived from nature, proceed from custom.” ~ Michel de Montaigne, one of the most influential writers of the French Renaissance , and commonly thought of as the father of modern skepticism
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#609 Nov 29, 2012
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
Ancient BabylonThe Code of Hammurabi,(1780 BCE),[12] dealt with the reciprocity of the Lex talionis, in ways, such by limiting retribution, as they did concepts of retribution (literally "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth").
The Golden Rule existed among all the major philosophical schools of Ancient China: Mohism, Taoism, and Confucianism. Examples of the concept include:
"Zi Gong asked, saying, "Is there one word that may serve as a rule of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not RECIPROCITY such a word?" – Confucius[13][14]
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." – Confucius[15]
"If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." – Mozi
"The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." –Laozi[16]
"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." –Laozi[17]
Ancient Egypt
An early example of the Golden Rule that reflects the Ancient Egyptian concept of Maat appears in the story of The Eloquent Peasant, which dates to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040–1650 BCE): "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to cause that he do thus to you."[18] An example from a Late Period (c. 664 BCE – 323 BCE) papyrus: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another
Ancient Greece
The Golden Rule in its prohibitive form was a common principle in ancient Greek philosophy. Examples of the general concept include:
"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him." – Pittacus[20](c. 640–568 BCE)
"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales[21](c. 624 BC – c. 546 BC)
"What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean.[22] The oldest extant reference to Sextus is by Origen in the third century of the common era.[23]
"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others." – Isocrates[24](436–338 BCE)
"What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." – Epictetus[25]
"It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing 'neither to harm nor be harmed'[26]), and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life." – Epicurus[27]
"...it has been shown that to injure anyone is never just anywhere." - Socrates, in Plato's Republic. Plato is the first person known to have said this
Xtians like Jeff have no clue and most dont want to know HOW MUCH Xtianity is based on Greek philosophies. Since few Fundy Protys like Jeff have ever read Augustine or Aquinas, among others - they simply have no clue.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#610 Nov 29, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists who do sacrifice and do good for others are not being consistent. With only one life to live it makes no sense to help others since it ultimately does not matter what one does.
Whats the point in being a prick?

Clearly you believe the only reason not to be one is fear of some post-life punishment.

You are weak and spineless, as it appears you'd rather be a prick but are so easily frightened by some myths you try not to be one.

Some of us dont struggle with not being a prick, but it sounds like you do! And you need a Sky-Bully to keep you in line...grow up and be a man, stop trying to play one.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#611 Nov 29, 2012
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Xtians like Jeff have no clue and most dont want to know HOW MUCH Xtianity is based on Greek philosophies. Since few Fundy Protys like Jeff have ever read Augustine or Aquinas, among others - they simply have no clue.
I thought you were going to quit the forums. Were disappointed you didn't. You still can ya know.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#612 Nov 29, 2012
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Can;t argue with any of that, but I;m still waiting for one of the evangelical Christians (or anyone else) to show me how morality can be :absolute" in any way. I
Ideas of right and wrong are still and always in the individual, relative minds of human beings.
Morals can be absolute when they are grounded in the very nature of God. Only by appealing to a higher being than man can they be absolute.
This is why your kind has such problems with morals. They are all relative and you cannot claim one moral system is superior to another or that the morals of another system are evil.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#613 Nov 29, 2012
Big Al wrote:
“The laws of conscience, which we pretend to be derived from nature, proceed from custom.”~ Michel de Montaigne, one of the most influential writers of the French Renaissance , and commonly thought of as the father of modern skepticism
In other words, there is no such thing as evil. Its all opinion.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#614 Nov 29, 2012
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it's all relative. Most people in the world think the Holocaust was evil, by our own personal relative standard, but there are plenty today who still hate Jews and who (secretly) DON'T think it was evil.
The Nazis, of course, had no moral problem with killing Jews. They thought they were doing good for the world.
See what I mean? Morality is RELATIVE.
These examples prove you cannot say that what the Nazi's did was evil. Without a higher authority that transcends man you just have opinion.
The other problem is you know that what the Nazi's did was evil but you can't show that by a morality that is RELATIVE.

Since: Dec 09

United States

#615 Nov 29, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
To do good require sacrifice for the most part. If it doesn't ultimately matter if a person does good or not then why do it unless you get some pleasure out of it somehow? If there is no afterlife, no accountability for how a person lives this life then eat, dink and be merry for tomorrow you die.
BTW-- how can there be such things as morals in evolution?
Jeff: "To do good require sacrifice for the most part."

What has to be sacrificed in order to do good?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#616 Nov 29, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
These examples prove you cannot say that what the Nazi's did was evil.
I just TOLD you that I think (as do many, but not ALL, people on this planet) that what they did was evil, according to OUR morality. NOT according to theirs.
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Without a higher authority that transcends man you just have opinion.
PROVE there is a "higher authority." All you have is opinion on this. You imagine there is one, then attribute morality to it.
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
The other problem is you know that what the Nazi's did was evil but you can't show that by a morality that is RELATIVE.
I just DID. I told you that, according to MY MORAL VALUES, what the Nazis did was wrong.

What the hell is wrong with you? This isn't that hard to grasp ... really!
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#617 Nov 29, 2012
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff: "To do good require sacrifice for the most part."
What has to be sacrificed in order to do good?
Can be time, money, resources and maybe your life.

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