common sense, reason & science are winning over bronze age mythology

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Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#577
Nov 28, 2012
 

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EmpAtheist wrote:
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Funny how atheists never view rape and genocide as moral but religious nut jobs will find a way to rationalize it though ... i guess it depends on what version of what sect of what god belief you follow though.
Help me out. Are you saying that atheist do not consider "rape and genocide as moral"? That doing such things is not immoral or evil?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#578
Nov 28, 2012
 

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tickedoffchic wrote:
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Wrong. The Scandinavian countries are full of unbelievers, yet have the lowest crime rates and the most beneficial socieies in the world.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/us/28belief...
They may be full of unbelievers but they are still living by some Christian values. "Though they denied most of the traditional teachings of Christianity, they called themselves Christians, and most were content to remain in the Danish National Church or the Church of Sweden, the traditional national branches of Lutheranism."
These people are not real atheists. What a sad situation. Its like living in a world of only black and white as opposed to a world of 3D color.
Thinking

Zeals, UK

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#579
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Morals existed before your POS religion.
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Help me out. Are you saying that atheist do not consider "rape and genocide as moral"? That doing such things is not immoral or evil?

Since: Apr 07

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#580
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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They may be full of unbelievers but they are still living by some Christian values. "Though they denied most of the traditional teachings of Christianity, they called themselves Christians, and most were content to remain in the Danish National Church or the Church of Sweden, the traditional national branches of Lutheranism."
These people are not real atheists. What a sad situation. Its like living in a world of only black and white as opposed to a world of 3D color.
Well, don't you fundies call all unbelievers Atheists? You're the one who, just yesterday, told me that "everything is black and white." So, I would say, once again, that you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I have read many articles that say most Scandanavians don't practice their religion, go to church, etc. Yet, they have less crime, are better educated and have a better standard of living than the rest of the world.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

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#581
Nov 28, 2012
 

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tickedoffchic wrote:
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Well, don't you fundies call all unbelievers Atheists? You're the one who, just yesterday, told me that "everything is black and white." So, I would say, once again, that you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
I have read many articles that say most Scandanavians don't practice their religion, go to church, etc. Yet, they have less crime, are better educated and have a better standard of living than the rest of the world.
Not all unbelievers are atheists. Yes, things are either true or false. Just because they don't go to church does not mean they don't unconsciously still live by common Christian principles. Even atheist try to do that with the golden rule.
Jeff

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#582
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Thinking wrote:
Morals existed before your POS religion.
<quoted text>
Duh.
Thinking

Zeals, UK

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#583
Nov 28, 2012
 

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So you know the first note of Beethoven's Fifth.

And?
Jeff wrote:
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Duh.

Since: Apr 07

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#584
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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They may be full of unbelievers but they are still living by some Christian values. "Though they denied most of the traditional teachings of Christianity, they called themselves Christians, and most were content to remain in the Danish National Church or the Church of Sweden, the traditional national branches of Lutheranism."
These people are not real atheists. What a sad situation. Its like living in a world of only black and white as opposed to a world of 3D color.
They don't have to be living Christian values to be decent people. By the way, Lutheranism is very much like Catholicism.

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

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#585
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Not all unbelievers are atheists. Yes, things are either true or false. Just because they don't go to church does not mean they don't unconsciously still live by common Christian principles. Even atheist try to do that with the golden rule.
Atheists don't live by Christian values. The values you call Christian were established by tribes people who worshiped multiple gods.

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

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#586
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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They may be full of unbelievers but they are still living by some Christian values. "Though they denied most of the traditional teachings of Christianity, they called themselves Christians, and most were content to remain in the Danish National Church or the Church of Sweden, the traditional national branches of Lutheranism."
These people are not real atheists. What a sad situation. Its like living in a world of only black and white as opposed to a world of 3D color.
You don't get it. Christians adopted the value systems of the pagans and others around them. Christian did not invent morality...it was on this earth long before. And many of the born again evangelical values are NOT Christian, like worshiping the rich and hating the poor.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

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#587
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Then all of ancient history is hearsay. Alexander the Great' first bio was written almost 400 years after his death. According to you we would have to say its fiction.
We have actual evidence from his campaigns. He also had children.

“Darwin died for your sins”

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Nunya

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#588
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Now Jesuits, those are usually some really smart and savvy guys. They are usually very pragmatic and can see reality for what it is and faith for what it is...
The Jesuits I've know are tough SOB's too...!
I can honestly say I have never met a Jesuit. But in my state that's not uncommon.

“Darwin died for your sins”

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Nunya

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Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Not all unbelievers are atheists. Yes, things are either true or false. Just because they don't go to church does not mean they don't unconsciously still live by common Christian principles. Even atheist try to do that with the golden rule.
Ancient BabylonThe Code of Hammurabi,(1780 BCE),[12] dealt with the reciprocity of the Lex talionis, in ways, such by limiting retribution, as they did concepts of retribution (literally "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth").

The Golden Rule existed among all the major philosophical schools of Ancient China: Mohism, Taoism, and Confucianism. Examples of the concept include:

"Zi Gong asked, saying, "Is there one word that may serve as a rule of practice for all one's life?" The Master said, "Is not RECIPROCITY such a word?" – Confucius[13][14]
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." – Confucius[15]
"If people regarded other people's families in the same way that they regard their own, who then would incite their own family to attack that of another? For one would do for others as one would do for oneself." – Mozi
"The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." –Laozi[16]
"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." –Laozi[17]

Ancient Egypt
An early example of the Golden Rule that reflects the Ancient Egyptian concept of Maat appears in the story of The Eloquent Peasant, which dates to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040–1650 BCE): "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to cause that he do thus to you."[18] An example from a Late Period (c. 664 BCE – 323 BCE) papyrus: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another

Ancient Greece
The Golden Rule in its prohibitive form was a common principle in ancient Greek philosophy. Examples of the general concept include:

"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him." – Pittacus[20](c. 640–568 BCE)
"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales[21](c. 624 BC – c. 546 BC)
"What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean.[22] The oldest extant reference to Sextus is by Origen in the third century of the common era.[23]
"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others." – Isocrates[24](436–338 BCE)
"What thou avoidest suffering thyself seek not to impose on others." – Epictetus[25]
"It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing 'neither to harm nor be harmed'[26]), and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life." – Epicurus[27]
"...it has been shown that to injure anyone is never just anywhere." - Socrates, in Plato's Republic. Plato is the first person known to have said this

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

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#590
Nov 28, 2012
 

Since: Jun 12

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#591
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
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Atheists who do sacrifice and do good for others are not being consistent. With only one life to live it makes no sense to help others since it ultimately does not matter what one does.
There is nothing in theory of evolution that has anything to do with morals. Evolution is just a purposeless process of nature. Processes have nothing to do with morals.
Stop making up sh*t and prove it.

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#592
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Cookie_Parker wrote:
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You don't get it. Christians adopted the value systems of the pagans and others around them. Christian did not invent morality...it was on this earth long before. And many of the born again evangelical values are NOT Christian, like worshiping the rich and hating the poor.
Job/Jeff doesn't get much of anything.

“Darwin died for your sins”

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Nunya

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#593
Nov 28, 2012
 

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Jeff wrote:
Atheists who do sacrifice and do good for others are not being consistent.
Sorry, but atheists are not required to conform to your F'd up definition of atheism.
Jeff wrote:
With only one life to live it makes no sense to help others since it ultimately does not matter what one does
It's more consistent to not help others if you think they and you will have another chance in a fairy tale afterlife. I'm sorry that you're to ignorant realize that.
Jeff wrote:
Evolution is just a purposeless process of nature. Processes have nothing to do with morals.
Yes it is purposeless...and? Why should evolution have anything to do with morals? Should the theory of gravity have something to do with morals?

Since: Jun 10

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#594
Nov 29, 2012
 

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madscot wrote:
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Sorry, but atheists are not required to conform to your F'd up definition of atheism.
<quoted text>
It's more consistent to not help others if you think they and you will have another chance in a fairy tale afterlife. I'm sorry that you're to ignorant realize that.
<quoted text>
Yes it is purposeless...and? Why should evolution have anything to do with morals? Should the theory of gravity have something to do with morals?
I just wonder how many times it has to be said before it sinks in.

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

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#595
Nov 29, 2012
 

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-The Star Reborn- wrote:
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Job/Jeff doesn't get much of anything.
They sounded alike. And you're right. And when he's defeated, he changes the subject.

“God Loves Ilks!”

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#596
Nov 29, 2012
 
Cookie_Parker wrote:
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They sounded alike. And you're right. And when he's defeated, he changes the subject.
Yep!

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