Speaking in tongues

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#381 May 27, 2014
buck wrote:
btw the scribes and pharisees sought signs from Jesus Matthew 12:38 and 39.
Jesus replied "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall be no sign be given to it"
When the scribes and Pharisees sought a sign, please know that Jesus did in fact delivery one to them, i.e.“sign of the prophet Jonas”(Mat 12:39).
buck wrote:
People are always wanting to see signs of healing, miracles etc. for them to really believe in Jesus, God Almighty.
I most respectfully submit that Jesus is not God Almighty, but rather the son of God, according to the scripture, although that might be in opposition to your belief, right?
buck wrote:
Just because one does not receive the chance to experience these things does not make "any" scripture invalid.
And just because someone have a unique experience does not given them the authority to falsely attribute it to the scripture, especially when the scripture does not say such a thing, right?
buck wrote:
but, I do believe most believers do get the chance to experience healings and miracles. I know that I have :) and know of many others that have.
If I may very respectfully ask,“What percentage of people [that you know] have been completed healed of an incurable disease or terminal illness?” And to answer this question, you can consider both believers and non-believers, okay?
buck wrote:
When things work out beyond human understanding I would call that a miracle.
If I may very respectfully ask,“Would you still consider it a miracle after human discovers what caused the occurrence of event to happen?”
buck wrote:
Or when your body heals faster than expected, that is healing received. When the doctor says 6 months for healing and you're good in 2 months I would call that "healing" :)
Wow! With all due respect, I see that it really does not take much for your to call an occurrence a miracle. Or perhaps, my standard for a miracle is simply too high (smile).
buck

AOL

#382 May 28, 2014
Jesus is the Son of God, I never refuted that.
but what many do not realize is that Jesus the Son was the flesh,
God was "in" Christ, God was the one doing the works, the miracles.
God and Jesus are "one" as so says scriptures.
to know Jesus is to know God.
Jesus was man and God.
btw it is not out of respect to ask percentage of miracles and healings
all around the world, it is pure ignorace.
How could anyone properly calculate the percentage of what
God does all around the world.
God is the same, yesterday, today and forever, miracles and
healings still happen contrary to your opinions and beliefs.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#383 May 28, 2014
buck wrote:
Jesus is the Son of God, I never refuted that.
but what many do not realize is that Jesus the Son was the flesh,
God was "in" Christ, God was the one doing the works, the miracles.
God and Jesus are "one" as so says scriptures.
to know Jesus is to know God.
Jesus was man and God.
btw it is not out of respect to ask percentage of miracles and healings
all around the world, it is pure ignorace.
How could anyone properly calculate the percentage of what
God does all around the world.
God is the same, yesterday, today and forever, miracles and
healings still happen contrary to your opinions and beliefs.
Hello Buck, pleasure.

I don't believe anyone arguing for the position of cessation of tongues discounts the miraculous(they can correct me if I'm wrong). It's whether ,in part, such (tongues) are 'normative' and can be "performed" on cue, as in this video:



God is Sovereign, and miracles can and do happen, they are exceptional events - not the norm.
buck

AOL

#384 May 28, 2014
Hello Senecus,

Nice to have you join in with sensibility that is way above the norm
on this forum :)
I recall past experiences concerning speaking in tongues in the
church. The whole congregation was encouraged to speak
in tongues, just open up your mouth and speak it they said.
That is not the Bible way, I was not comfortable the way the
whole congregation was led. Service had kind a just begun, so
I did not feel right in staying so I walked out.
To this day I believe the people of that church were misled.
I agree God is Sovereign and still performs miracles and healings
in spite of man's opinions to limit God as to what God can and
cannot do.
I will check out the youtube, thanks, take care my friend.
buck

AOL

#385 May 28, 2014
Senecus,

I viewed the video and was not impressed but rather disappointed at
the deception involved.
I am not the biggest fan of Copeland ministries. He teaches things
that are clearly not from God above, it is nothing but literal nonsense!
Speaking in tongues is something not to be stage acted and
mocked as the video portrays.
The Holy Spirit operates through you when you speak in tongues.
In spite of what Copeland teaches about receiving the Holy Ghost,
God may send someone to interpret what you speak or possibly
give you some understanding of what you speak.
1 Cornithians 14:13, verses 27 & 28 also.
The video was nothig but a false projection of the gift of
how the Holy Ghost works in us.
Kenneth Copeland & Rodney Brown should feel utter shame.
and the congregation shall be judged by God for their laughter
in the matter.
buck

AOL

#386 May 28, 2014
It is also too bad that this video is made known.
I never bought anything that came out of Kenneth Copeland's mouth
from behind the pulpit or elsewhere.
He and Browne will have much to answer for on Judgement Day for
misleading people.
They both literally mocked God and His gift of speaking in tongues.
There was no interpreter and it is quite obvious that the church
congregation received no edification by the performance.
No one profited by the non sense of Copeland & Browne that
was presented on stage with thousands of viewers.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#387 May 28, 2014
buck wrote:
Jesus is the Son of God, I never refuted that.
Well, to attempt to refute that, would be the same as attempting to make Jesus a liar, since He explicitly said,“I am the son of God,” right?
buck wrote:
but what many do not realize is that Jesus the Son was the flesh,
God was "in" Christ, God was the one doing the works, the miracles.
Perhaps, what you do not realize is that God is in everyone. However, this by no means make them gods, right?
buck wrote:
God and Jesus are "one" as so says scriptures.
Yes, they are one in “purpose,” but not one in “person.”
buck wrote:
to know Jesus is to know God.
Yes, but this does not make Him God.
buck wrote:
Jesus was man and God.
Once again, please do not try to make Jesus a liar. More specifically, Jesus said,“Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord”(Mark 12:29).
buck wrote:
btw it is not out of respect to ask percentage of miracles and healings
all around the world, it is pure ignorace.
Please know that I did not ask for the percentage of miracles and healings all around the world, but rather the percentage that you knew of. After all, I would suppose that you knew people who were diagnosed with incurable and/or terminal illness, right?
buck wrote:
How could anyone properly calculate the percentage of what
God does all around the world.
Once again, I only wish you to answer this question based on what you knew, not what you believed.
buck wrote:
God is the same, yesterday, today and forever, miracles and healings still happen contrary to your opinions and beliefs.
Well, according to empirical evidence (not what I believe), the percentages are overwhelming against what you believe, in my humble opinion (smile).

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#388 May 28, 2014
Hell-Sucks wrote:
Bro Love is anything but a "unbeliever". Thing is, he believes and is knows the most High and you are still posting from the underworld. Sad that. He is love. I love him. You have no grasp og Agape or any other form of the word.
~whew~

Finally got a signal.

Anyway, thank you, my dear. You know I love you, dear.

May the shalowm of our 'Elohiym remain with you.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#389 May 28, 2014
gundee123 wrote:
I agree.... when a person speaks in tongue (unintelligible gibberish) to people who already understand his native language, then is useless and ridiculous.
If a person is spewing "unintelligible gibberish," then they're not speaking in tongues, at all. In fact, they're not even speaking, period.
gundee123 wrote:
Perhaps, Paul was not referring to foolish babbling. But then again, what do use suppose he was referring to when he said,“So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church (1Cor 14:9-12)," if you do not mind my asking?
First thing's first. A "barbarian" is one that doesn't speak Greek. With that being said, what Paul was referring to was this. Without an interpreter, what profit would there be even if a person, while speaking in tongues, spoke with the most simplest of terminology? For example and considering that I don't know braille, it would be most unprofitable if a person wrote me a letter in braille, even if the letter was written at a first grade level.
gundee123 wrote:
I think that you make an excellent point here. However, when one starts to accept man-made doctrine based on suppositions, speculations, and conjectures, as opposed to sound scripture and Jesus’ teachings, then this may lead to the opening of Pandora’s Box.
Of course, it may. But, that's already a runaway train, as it is. That's why I said that even speculations and the such-like must remain within the confines of sound doctrine.
gundee123 wrote:
I am only having this discussion with you so that others can see how simply ridiculous the practice of speaking unintelligible gibberish really is.
Likewise.
gundee123 wrote:
No, it does not mean that they never occurred. However, it also does not mean that people can decide what they might be based assumptions and suppositions, rather than apply sound scriptures.
Well, sound scriptures does say that people would speak in other tongues. My contention is your's, though. I don't believe that people either, speak in tongues in our generation, or are speaking in tongues when they spew out a series of sounds that have no translation or interpretation.
gundee123 wrote:
Yes, Paul had no problem with people occasionally speaking in other [intelligible] tongues (languages) when an interpreter was present, e.g., a visitor of a church who spoke a different language. However, he knew that many people were simply zealous about having the spiritual gift (1 Cor 14:12) to speaking in tongue (xenoglossy). And as a result of the passion for this gift, the people spoke an unintelligible tongue (glossolalia).
I don't believe I can agree, here, because I don't believe such foolishness was taking place during that time. I mean, it's possible, yes. But, I don't believe it happened.

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Location hidden

#390 May 28, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>~whew~
Finally got a signal.
Anyway, thank you, my dear. You know I love you, dear.
May the shalowm of our 'Elohiym remain with you.
Sorry, I haven't gotten back to you. I received grave news concerning my unemployment and other securities and I always feel I should distance myself from those I love in these times as to not to screw up everything even more. It looked bleak before, but that bleak would have been a blessing. I reached a *dead end*. Much love to you my Brother and Friend!!

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Location hidden

#391 May 28, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>If a person is spewing "unintelligible gibberish," then they're not speaking in tongues, at all. In fact, they're not even speaking, period.
<quoted text>First thing's first. A "barbarian" is one that doesn't speak Greek. With that being said, what Paul was referring to was this. Without an interpreter, what profit would there be even if a person, while speaking in tongues, spoke with the most simplest of terminology? For example and considering that I don't know braille, it would be most unprofitable if a person wrote me a letter in braille, even if the letter was written at a first grade level.
<quoted text>Of course, it may. But, that's already a runaway train, as it is. That's why I said that even speculations and the such-like must remain within the confines of sound doctrine.
<quoted text>Likewise.
<quoted text>Well, sound scriptures does say that people would speak in other tongues. My contention is your's, though. I don't believe that people either, speak in tongues in our generation, or are speaking in tongues when they spew out a series of sounds that have no translation or interpretation.
<quoted text>I don't believe I can agree, here, because I don't believe such foolishness was taking place during that time. I mean, it's possible, yes. But, I don't believe it happened.
Then check out this thread, it is quite relative:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#392 May 28, 2014
Hell-Sucks wrote:
Sorry, I haven't gotten back to you. I received grave news concerning my unemployment and other securities and I always feel I should distance myself from those I love in these times as to not to screw up everything even more. It looked bleak before, but that bleak would have been a blessing. I reached a *dead end*. Much love to you my Brother and Friend!!
No apology necessary.

Listen. Distancing yourself will become destructive.

Ecclesiasticus 6:2 Extol not thyself in the counsel of thine own heart; that thy soul be not torn in pieces as a bull straying alone.

1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

If you have to vent, vent with me. My skin is thick.

Job 14:13-15 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

“ Xue Rengui”

Since: Oct 09

Khitan extraordinaire

#393 May 28, 2014
buck wrote:
Senecus,
I viewed the video and was not impressed but rather disappointed at
the deception involved.
I am not the biggest fan of Copeland ministries. He teaches things
that are clearly not from God above, it is nothing but literal nonsense!
Speaking in tongues is something not to be stage acted and
mocked as the video portrays.
The Holy Spirit operates through you when you speak in tongues.
In spite of what Copeland teaches about receiving the Holy Ghost,
God may send someone to interpret what you speak or possibly
give you some understanding of what you speak.
1 Cornithians 14:13, verses 27 & 28 also.
The video was nothig but a false projection of the gift of
how the Holy Ghost works in us.
Kenneth Copeland & Rodney Brown should feel utter shame.
and the congregation shall be judged by God for their laughter
in the matter.
Hello Buck,
I'm glad you weren't 'impressed', sad thing is many in the audience(congregation) most likely were. You hit the nail with - "was nothig but a false projection of the gift ..." - it is a Counterfeit - like much of what they (in this case "Word of Faith" movement )teach , Counterfeit Christianity. There's a book by that name, you might find it interesting.
buck

AOL

#394 May 29, 2014
Hello again Senecus,
yes no doubt a counterfeit, the devil has one for everything
that God has is good, amen.
Deception is the devil's aim and gain, too sad that a large
crowd is giving in to it.
btw you know man is born in sin, right.
Well, Copeland goes further to say that, we are all born with
the sin of wickedness of Sodom.
Funny I would have never believed that the whole world was
populated with the sin like Sodom.
We are not all gay and lesbian, there is a large percentage
that is totally against it, religious and non religious.
Copeland is ever deceiving many, it is so sad.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#395 May 29, 2014
Hell-Sucks wrote:
he believes and is knows the most High
Huh?
buck

AOL

#398 Jun 2, 2014
It is so sad that God's property is being forgered, signed by
none other than the devil himself.
To include the much edited Bible versions by religious groups,
and the book of mormon.
It is nothing but pure deception created by the devil.
The devil is the one who not want you to receive "ALL" that
God has for you in the Bible.
A large majority have received the Holy Ghost with evidence of
speaking in tongues, which proves what the Bible says about
speaking in tongues and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost
is 100% TRUE! It still holds true today, amen!
Let NO man deceive by any means by their talk or by the
twisting and turning of scripture.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#399 Jun 2, 2014
buck wrote:
It is so sad that God's property is being forgered, signed by
none other than the devil himself.
To include the much edited Bible versions by religious groups,
and the book of mormon.
It is nothing but pure deception created by the devil.
The devil is the one who not want you to receive "ALL" that
God has for you in the Bible.
A large majority have received the Holy Ghost with evidence of
speaking in tongues, which proves what the Bible says about
speaking in tongues and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost
is 100% TRUE! It still holds true today, amen!
Let NO man deceive by any means by their talk or by the
twisting and turning of scripture.
Go wash your hands bloody fingers.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#400 Jun 2, 2014
In a nutshell...

Tongue: Gr. glossa; Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired)-- tongue.

1Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Paul means that unless an interpreter is present, then the only one that understands what's being said is the most High. This is most unfortunate, especially if the one speaking in tongues is revealing great and divine mysteries. And based on what's written, such as at Matthew 13:11, these "great and divine mysteries" are in regards to the understanding of the parables concerning the kingdom of heaven.

1Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

As it's written at 1Corinthians 14:22, "..tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not." In this, Paul means, at verse 4, that speaking in tongues among believers is unprofitable, as the purpose for speaking in tongues is to share the gospel with those that know not the gospel and don't share the same language as the speaker. Prophesying, on the other hand, makes very little to no sense to the unbeliever, but profits believers. Therefore, Paul continued by saying...

1Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Paul means, here, that it would benefit the Church if all spake with other tongues, as this would increase membership, but it's better if they all prophesied, because this would advance the already-existing members. Now, to return to verse 22...

1Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Need I explain this verse? In other words, what impression is made to believers when fellow-believers speak in unknown tongues, especially considering that believers are already aware of the power of the most High? The multitudes that attended Pentecost were impressed, because they weren't believers as of yet. The fact that they witnessed such a gift of power profited them.

1Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Should we risk such a thing? True believers would never do such a thing considering such exhortation. At verse 33, Paul wrote, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." And at verse 40, Paul instructed, "Let all things be done decently and in order." So, to hinder confusion and that all things be done decently and in order, Paul instructed...

1Corinthians 14:27-28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Paul means by saying, "that by course," "in turn," or "one at a time." And an interpreter must be present. It's that simple.

1Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Who is so foolish to reject the commandments of the most High?

And that's that.

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Location hidden

#401 Jun 2, 2014
Too good Bro Love, just too good!! Check your messages, please.

;*:*;

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#402 Jun 2, 2014
Hell-Sucks wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me?? I give Scripture.....,
It must have evaporated.

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

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