Speaking in tongues

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#350 May 24, 2014
gundee123 wrote:
Bingo! Unfortunately, people in the church today practice “speaking in tongue”(or unintelligible gibberish) to those who already know their native language.
Actually and even more unfortunate, we have many in these congregations that spew out a series of sounds that have absolutely no translation whatsoever and call it "speaking in tongues." And unfortunately, the majority don't know any better. Even still, it'll still be just as unprofitable if there was one that could miraculously speak in other tongues to do so when it's completely unnecessary.
gundee123 wrote:
Once again, I totally agree! Speaking gibberish does not edify the church, according to Paul, as well as according to anyone who engages his or her critical thinking.
No, it doesn't. But, neither I, nor Paul, was referring to spewing out a series of sounds that have no translation. Neither does speaking in an unknown tongue when unnecessary edify the Church.
gundee123 wrote:
Yes, prophesying in a language that everyone already understands is superior to speaking gibberish that no one understands, in my humble opinion.
Prophesying is still regarded as superior to speaking in tongues even when the miraculous tongue spoken is an actual language.
gundee123 wrote:
If I may respectfully disagree with you on this point, for I am prepared to argue that the way the church has practiced “speaking in tongue” today is not only a counterfeit to what happened on the day of Pentecost, but also it has made a mockery of Holy Spirit.
Although I agree with you, this is not the point Paul was making. Paul was not referring to the foolish babbling that people in our modern-day congregations spew.
gundee123 wrote:
Yes, I think that because people cannot readily expose those who claim to speak in tongue (unintelligible gibberish), they feel safer promoting this fraudulent practice, with all due respect.
Rather, people don't expose those who make such claims, because for the most part, a great number of believers believe they are speaking in tongues. And that's why the majority exalts the gift of tongues above prophesying.
gundee123 wrote:
Please know that I realize that if we speculate or form conjectures, we can assume practically anything. However, the bible was not written in a way that people had to make suppositions and create doctrines based on those assumptions, in my humble opinion. In other words, Jesus said to follow Him (His teachings), as oppose to follow the unsubstantiated hypotheses of others, right?
Our anointed Savior meant to follow his way of life, which is his unwavering dedication to faith and obedience in the moral law. Regardless, my point stands. Even suppositions and assumptions have to remain within the confines of the law and prophets. Therefore and based on what John wrote, it's more than possible, if not probable, that it just was not recorded. I'll digress, though, to saying "No, he didn't," considering that he never left Galilee and Judea, except for a brief visit to Samaria.
gundee123 wrote:
Although I think that you a good point here, Jesus never spoke in tongue or taught others that they should speak in tongue (unintelligible gibberish), right?....
That we know of. But, no. Never does our anointed Savior instruct the apostles and disciples, specifically, to speak in tongues, unless of course we count what's said in the gospel according to Mark. But, I know you're response to that, already, and I'll rather not veer away from the discussion at hand. Discussing that which appears in Mark will do just that. Anyway, we don't have a specific instruction from our anointed Savior, but we do have him declaring how that the apostles would perform even greater works than he did. Therefore...

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#351 May 24, 2014
gundee123 wrote:
Excellent point! But please know that speaking in tongue was strictly used when the people spoke in different languages, right? And if so,“Is this what’s being practiced in the church today,” if you do not mind my asking?
Thank you. I'm well aware and yes. And I would think that by now, you'd know that I don't even refer to the nonsensical babbling they do in these congregations as "speaking in tongues." I think it's beyond sad that that's what it's come to, though, that even those that know better call such foolishness "speaking in tongues" just because that's what the deluded and deceived call it.
gundee123 wrote:
Well, the status quo dictates that unless there is biblical evidence that the gift of tongue was spoken at other times, then these three occasions were the only time we have a good reason to think that it was spoken without engaging in speculations or conjectures, in my humble opinion.
There were other miracles that our anointed Savior said his apostles and disciples would perform. How many of these are mentioned in verse? And if they're not mentioned, does this mean they never occurred?
gundee123 wrote:
Paul admonished people for speaking in tongue, as opposed to condoning what they were doing, right?
No. Paul admonished people for speaking in tongues when it was unnecessary and, therefore, not magnifying our 'Elohiym, nor edifying the Church. He did, after all, say, "I would that ye all spake with tongues (1Cor 14:5)," even though he preferred that they all prophesied. The rest of the verse says, "..but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#352 May 24, 2014
gundee123 wrote:
According to Paul, the only way that the church could be edified or God could be magnified by anyone speaking in tongue was if there was an interpreter, i.e.,“... except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying”(Acts 2:5). And when there is no interpreter in the church today when people get up and start speaking unintelligible gibberish, Christians need to know that these tongue speakers are required to keep silent in the church (Acts 2:28), according to their own bible.

Interesting, many people believe that women must keep silent in the church (1 Cor 14:34), but not men who are speaking in tongue without an interpreter (1 Cor 14:28).
I agree, 100%.
buck

AOL

#353 May 25, 2014
Non believers can oppose the truth of speaking in tongues, that
doesn't mean they are correct :)
God has always had those who opposed his words.
and gundee and brotherlyleelove are not the first and will not
be the last of the bunch.
People are still receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost with evidence
of speaking in tongues that should be sufficient enough to say
that God still speaks and calls men.
Joel's prophecy still ringing true, amen!

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#354 May 25, 2014
buck wrote:
Non believers
Speaking for myself, your use of the term "Non believer" is most erroneous. The Almighty Yahoweh is, indeed, my Father, and I accept His only-begotten Son, Yahowshua, as my anointed King, Lord, and Savior.
buck wrote:
can oppose the truth of speaking in tongues,
More correctly, I oppose the notion that people receive power from on high in our generations to speak in other tongues that are actually unknown to them. Additionally, I oppose the notion that the miraculous gift of tongues began as actual languages, but became the foolish babbling that people today call "tongues."
buck wrote:
that doesn't mean they are correct
Nor does it mean I'm incorrect.

To provide evidence as to why I oppose such a notion, I've provided a verse that declares, "..if there are tongues, they will cease (1Cor 13:8)." And between the two of us, only I've provided at least one logical reason that explains why such a gift would no longer be necessary in our generations, and that's that the Word of the most High already encompasses the earth in every language known to man, whether by verbal communication, or book.
buck wrote:
God has always had those who opposed his words.
Unfortunately, you fit such a description by not accepting that which is written at 1Corinthians 13:8, and every other verse that proves that "tongues" are actual languages.
buck wrote:
and brotherlyleelove is not the first and will not
be the last of the bunch.
I do not oppose the Word of the most High. I exalt it.
buck wrote:
People are still receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost with evidence
of speaking in tongues
According to you, then, love is not enough to serve as evidence, even though our anointed Savior said that that's how people would discern between believers and unbelievers (John 13:35). Additionally and at 1Corinthians 12:30, Paul asked, "..do all speak with tongues?"
buck wrote:
that should be sufficient enough to say
that God still speaks and calls men.
Of course, He does. Through missionaries and many other methods, like Bible distribution.
buck wrote:
Joel's prophecy still ringing true, amen!
Provide a verse that proves that, please and if you will.

At one time, Paul raised the dead. Where are all those that can raise the dead?

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#355 May 25, 2014
In a nutshell...

Tongue: Gr. glossa; Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired)-- tongue.

1Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Paul means that unless an interpreter is present, then the only one that understands what's being said is the most High. This is most unfortunate, especially if the one speaking in tongues is revealing great and divine mysteries. And based on what's written, such as at Matthew 13:11, these "great and divine mysteries" are in regards to the understanding of the parables concerning the kingdom of heaven.

1Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

As it's written at 1Corinthians 14:22, "..tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not." In this, Paul means, at verse 4, that speaking in tongues among believers is unprofitable, as the purpose for speaking in tongues is to share the gospel with those that know not the gospel and don't share the same language as the speaker. Prophesying, on the other hand, makes very little to no sense to the unbeliever, but profits believers. Therefore, Paul continued by saying...

1Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Paul means, here, that it would benefit the Church if all spake with other tongues, as this would increase membership, but it's better if they all prophesied, because this would advance the already-existing members. Now, to return to verse 22...

1Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Need I explain this verse? In other words, what impression is made to believers when fellow-believers speak in unknown tongues, especially considering that believers are already aware of the power of the most High? The multitudes that attended Pentecost were impressed, because they weren't believers as of yet. The fact that they witnessed such a gift of power profited them.

1Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Should we risk such a thing? True believers would never do such a thing considering such exhortation. At verse 33, Paul wrote, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." And at verse 40, Paul instructed, "Let all things be done decently and in order." So, to hinder confusion and that all things be done decently and in order, Paul instructed...

1Corinthians 14:27-28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Paul means by saying, "that by course," "in turn," or "one at a time." And an interpreter must be present. It's that simple.

1Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Who is so foolish to reject the commandments of the most High?

And that's that.

“Become Love!”

Since: Jan 09

Nowhere/Now here

#360 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
I suggest you keep up with the conversation. I'm not going to go back and read hundreds of posts for you.
The post you replied to was the only post I composed to you. For your sake and my curiosity as to how you'll respond, I'll re-post it.

Pardon my intrusion, please and if you will, but what's the purpose for this post?

If anything, a couple of things are established. One, you believe gundee123 and Senecus are "damned fools" and "blind." However and secondly, you exalt them to "leader" status which can be, in and of itself, construed as a compliment. But, other than that, what's the purpose of this post?

I ask, because I find that the most important element that's missing is your evidence that supports your belief. If they are, indeed, "damned fools" and "blind,"

1)..what evidence do you have that supports such proclamations against them?

2) Most importantly, how do you know they're "damned"?

3) What makes you and your beliefs so superior to theirs that you can proclaim such a verdict upon them?

4) Do you realize that your verdict has surpassed that of discernment?

5) Do you believe we're allowed to proclaim such a verdict on others?

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#362 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>Two unbelievers in agreement are in the same sinking ship.
Bro Love is anything but a "unbeliever". Thing is, he believes and is knows the most High and you are still posting from the underworld. Sad that. He is love. I love him. You have no grasp og Agape or any other form of the word.

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#363 May 25, 2014
Sorry about the typing but the humidity {rained the entire holiday} effects my FM and my hands next to useless. Please forgive my errors ....

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#365 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>Your UNBIBLICAL opinion noted.
Do elaborate on that, K??

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#367 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>You only provided your opinion.
And you provide ....?? ZILCH!!

John 5:

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

CEASE AND DESIST!!

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#369 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>What do you want to know about the Bible. Just ask. I always give Scripture for my beliefs.
Excuse me?? I give Scripture. You give nothing. You have nothing to offer. Christ will NEVER let you use HIS Word in your mission of hate .... therefore, you are invisible to all that matter ....,

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#371 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>Since I don't hate, you are a LIAR. You lose Devil.
Here, have some wienies and marshmallows to grill in your fire and brimstone instead of the flock of The Lamb .... lambchop.

“Let Your Heart Shine”

Since: May 14

Kansas City, MO

#373 May 25, 2014
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>"Wienies"? LOL!!!! There ya go folks. Another Biblical IGNORAMUS.
Sorry, they already took your mike away and the bouncer stuck you outside in the dumpster with the rest of the refuse .....

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#375 May 27, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Actually and even more unfortunate, we have many in these congregations that spew out a series of sounds that have absolutely no translation whatsoever and call it "speaking in tongues." And unfortunately, the majority don't know any better. Even still, it'll still be just as unprofitable if there was one that could miraculously speak in other tongues to do so when it's completely unnecessary.
Excellent point, I totally agree!
Brother Lee Love wrote:
No, it doesn't. But, neither I, nor Paul, was referring to spewing out a series of sounds that have no translation. Neither does speaking in an unknown tongue when unnecessary edify the Church.
I agree.... when a person speaks in tongue (unintelligible gibberish) to people who already understand his native language, then is useless and ridiculous.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Prophesying is still regarded as superior to speaking in tongues even when the miraculous tongue spoken is an actual language.
Yes!
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Although I agree with you, this is not the point Paul was making. Paul was not referring to the foolish babbling that people in our modern-day congregations spew
Perhaps, Paul was not referring to foolish babbling. But then again,“What do use suppose he was referring to when he said,“So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church”(1 Cor 14:9-12), if you do not mind my asking?
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Rather, people don't expose those who make such claims, because for the most part, a great number of believers believe they are speaking in tongues. And that's why the majority exalts the gift of tongues above prophesying.
[QUOTE who="Brother Lee Love"] Our anointed Savior meant to follow his way of life, which is his unwavering dedication to faith and obedience in the moral law. Regardless, my point stands. Even suppositions and assumptions have to remain within the confines of the law and prophets. Therefore and based on what John wrote, it's more than possible, if not probable, that it just was not recorded. I'll digress, though, to saying "No, he didn't," considering that he never left Galilee and Judea, except for a brief visit to Samaria.
I think that you make an excellent point here. However, when one starts to accept man-made doctrine based on suppositions, speculations, and conjectures, as opposed to sound scripture and Jesus’ teachings, then this may lead to the opening of Pandora’s Box.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
That we know of. But, no. Never does our anointed Savior instruct the apostles and disciples, specifically, to speak in tongues, unless of course we count what's said in the gospel according to Mark. But, I know you're response to that, already, and I'll rather not veer away from the discussion at hand. Discussing that which appears in Mark will do just that. Anyway, we don't have a specific instruction from our anointed Savior, but we do have him declaring how that the apostles would perform even greater works than he did. Therefore...
Yes, we both know that the Gospel of Mark has both a short version (Mark 1:1 - 16:8) and a long version (Mark 1:1 – 16:20). Therefore, any doctrines that are based on anything after Mark 16:8 is not substantiated by the earliest MSS.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#376 May 27, 2014
Brother Lee Love wrote:
Thank you. I'm well aware and yes. And I would think that by now, you'd know that I don't even refer to the nonsensical babbling they do in these congregations as "speaking in tongues." I think it's beyond sad that that's what it's come to, though, that even those that know better call such foolishness "speaking in tongues" just because that's what the deluded and deceived call it.
Yes, Brother Lee Love, I am totally aware that you do not in any way subscribe to the modern day “speaking in tongue” mockery of God’s word that many churches practice. You see, I am only having this discussion with you so that others can see how simply ridiculous the practice of speaking unintelligible gibberish really is.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
There were other miracles that our anointed Savior said his apostles and disciples would perform. How many of these are mentioned in verse? And if they're not mentioned, does this mean they never occurred?
No, it does not mean that they never occurred. However, it also does not mean that people can decide what they might be based assumptions and suppositions, rather than apply sound scriptures.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
No. Paul admonished people for speaking in tongues when it was unnecessary and, therefore, not magnifying our 'Elohiym, nor edifying the Church. He did, after all, say, "I would that ye all spake with tongues (1 Cor 14:5)," even though he preferred that they all prophesied.
Yes, Paul had no problem with people occasionally speaking in other [intelligible] tongues (languages) when an interpreter was present, e.g., a visitor of a church who spoke a different language. However, he knew that many people were simply zealous about having the spiritual gift (1 Cor 14:12) to speaking in tongue (xenoglossy). And as a result of the passion for this gift, the people spoke an unintelligible tongue (glossolalia).
Brother Lee Love wrote:
The rest of the verse says, "..but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."
Yes, it was better for the church members to prophesize in a known tongue than to speak in an unintelligible tongue that no one understood, except for those who spoke in tongue that could be interpreted.
buck

AOL

#377 May 27, 2014
"ALL:" scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, "FOR CORRECTION", for instruction in
righteousness."
If you truly believe in God and the Bible as God's word you would
not question but simply follow.
but it's the human way to question.
"ALL" scripture is God's word, and men have always opposed
what is written in the Bible. Men have always found ways to
add or take away or read scripture another way, and men have
always found numerous ways to make argument.
You cannot very well state that speaking in tongues is not for today
when a majority of believers have received the gift of the Holy Ghost
and speak in tongues. The signs are there that God still calls.
Acts 2:38 makes it clear on what one must do for salvation.
1. repent 2. be baptized 3. receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
How does someone know they got the Holy Ghost, they speak
in other tongues. Acts 2:4 states this, also Acts 19:2 to 6.
NOWHERE can anyone find a verse that says clearly, that
speaking in tongues is not for present day believers.
The gift of the Holy Ghost is still given with evidence of
speaking in tongues. God is still the same and His word
changes not.
buck

AOL

#378 May 27, 2014
btw the scribes and pharisees sought signs from Jesus
Matthew 12:38 and 39.
Jesus replied "an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after
a sign; and there shall be no sign be given to it"
People are always wanting to see signs of healing, miracles etc. for them to really believe in Jesus, God Almighty.
Just because one does not receive the chance to experience
these things does not make "any" scripture invalid.
but, I do believe most believers do get the chance to experience
healings and miracles. I know that I have :) and know of many
others that have.
When things work out beyond human understanding I would call
that a miracle. Or when your body heals faster than expected,
that is healing received. When the doctor says 6 months for
healing and you're good in 2 months I would call that "healing" :)

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#379 May 27, 2014
buck wrote:
"ALL:" scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, "FOR CORRECTION", for instruction in righteousness."
When Paul spoke of all scripture, he was not referring to his letters, right?
buck wrote:
If you truly believe in God and the Bible as God's word you would not question but simply follow.
Please know that there is a big difference between believing in God and the Bible versus following man-made doctrines. In fact, Jesus warned about such.
buck wrote:
but it's the human way to question.
Well, actually it is not; especially since many people blindly follow without ever engaging their own critical thinking.
buck wrote:
"ALL" scripture is God's word, and men have always opposed what is written in the Bible. Men have always found ways to add or take away or read scripture another way, and men have always found numerous ways to make argument.
You might be surprised, but I actually agree with these statement. After all, the wolves in sheep’s clothing, the false prophets, the self-righteous, etc., right?
buck wrote:
You cannot very well state that speaking in tongues is not for today when a majority of believers have received the gift of the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues. The signs are there that God still calls.
If you would be so kind, please name when person who can speak xenoglossy, as opposed to speaking glossolalia (unintelligible gibberish).
buck wrote:
Acts 2:38 makes it clear on what one must do for salvation.
1. repent 2. be baptized 3. receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
Well, please know that Jesus explicitly told a young man what he must do in order to receive eternal life, i.e., keep the commandments, give to the poor, and follow Him. And get this, neither receiving the Holy Ghost nor speaking in tongue met the salvation checklist. But please do not take my word, but rather read the scripture for yourself as follows:

“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions”(Mat 19:16-22, KJV)......

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#380 May 27, 2014
....
buck wrote:
How does someone know they got the Holy Ghost, they speak in other tongues. Acts 2:4 states this, also Acts 19:2 to 6.
With all due respect, please know that false attributions of the scripture is a strategy that many learned and unlearned individuals engage in to intentionally and unintentionally deceive others. In other words, accrediting the scripture to saying things that it does not say is not how believers should rightly divide the word of God, right? So with this mind, let us see what Act 2:4 is really talking about when it says,“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”

First, this verse is only speaking to Jesus’ 11 Galilean disciples who were charged with spreading the wonderful works of God to other devout Jews who lived in Jerusalem and spoke at least 18 different languages. Thus, to eliminate the language barrier, the Holy Ghost enabled these 11 disciples to successfully speak to them in a way that each man heard them “in his own language”(Acts 2:6). Furthermore, the passage at Acts 19:2-6 is referring to about 12 men (disciples) who received the Holy Ghost, which enabled them to speak with residents in Corinth, a port city where people spoke many different languages (tongues).
buck wrote:
NOWHERE can anyone find a verse that says clearly, that speaking in tongues is not for present day believers.
Well, perhaps, you was not aware that speaking in tongue would cease, according to your bible, i.e.,“Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away”(1 Cor 13:8).
buck wrote:
The gift of the Holy Ghost is still given with evidence of speaking in tongues. God is still the same and His word changes not.
If I may very respectfully ask,“What the word “cease” mean to you?”

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