Arrogance: proof that Christianity is...

Arrogance: proof that Christianity is a false determinant of morality

Posted in the Christian Forum

First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1 Apr 23, 2013
Atheists are often criticized for being arrogant in their stance that the God of the Bible is a mythological creature.

American Christians are no less arrogant in their defenses of their faith, which leads me to ask this question: what is the benefit of being an American Christian instead of an American atheist?

American Christians divorce at a higher rate than American atheists.

The percentage of American Christians who have committed crimes is higher than the percentage of American atheists criminals, when compared to the overall percentage of Christians and atheists who are Americans.

When American Christians do "good things" (such as volunteering or giving to charity) they are often doing so in conditioned response to an ethereal reward/punishment set of beliefs. When atheists do "good things" its because they simply want to do them.

There is no advantage to being a Christian versus being an atheist in America. Atheists are demonstrably more law-abiding, less likely to divorce, and acting more form the heart when doing "good things."

Are Christians happier because they believe in an afterlife? Yes, that is true. Many studies have shown that Christians are generally happier than atheists.

But then again, drunks are happier than sober people. What good is happiness if you need to get drunk (believe in a delusion) to achieve it?
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#3 Apr 23, 2013
Wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you trying to convert Christians into atheists?
Pay no attention to this idiot, as they are constantly on here trying to start drama. If they dont believe in God, they need to get a life and stop trying to bother people that do.

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#4 Apr 23, 2013
God sends Hid children to warn the lost. Satan sends his children to call God a liar.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#5 Apr 23, 2013
Im not a christian but I despise PURPOSEFUL BIAS. So I'll go thru your comment for the heck of it
HighlyEvolved wrote:
American Christians divorce at a higher rate than American atheists.
I guess the numbers arent at all skewed since christians have a higher population than atheists? Besides, whats your proof?
HighlyEvolved wrote:
The percentage of American Christians who have committed crimes is higher than the percentage of American atheists criminals, when compared to the overall percentage of Christians and atheists who are Americans.
Same as above
HighlyEvolved wrote:
When American Christians do "good things" (such as volunteering or giving to charity) they are often doing so in conditioned response to an ethereal reward/punishment set of beliefs. When atheists do "good things" its because they simply want to do them.
Lol. So I guess atheists dont do good things to make themselves feel better? Or look good in front of others? EVERYONE does good things for selfish reasons. Cant walk around that
HighlyEvolved wrote:
There is no advantage to being a Christian versus being an atheist in America. Atheists are demonstrably more law-abiding, less likely to divorce, and acting more form the heart when doing "good things."
These are your words yes. But wheres the proof?
HighlyEvolved wrote:
Are Christians happier because they believe in an afterlife? Yes, that is true. Many studies have shown that Christians are generally happier than atheists.
But then again, drunks are happier than sober people. What good is happiness if you need to get drunk (believe in a delusion) to achieve it?
Well theres a difference between being drunk and being a christian dont you think? Or is the bias blinding you from seeing anything LOGICALLY?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#6 Apr 24, 2013
Wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you trying to convert Christians into atheists?
Not atheists, humanists.

The world would surely be a better place if there were no false delusions, irrational beliefs, or superstitions.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#7 Apr 24, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Pay no attention to this idiot, as they are constantly on here trying to start drama. If they dont believe in God, they need to get a life and stop trying to bother people that do.
What a hypocrite you are!

If you believe in God then you need to get a life and stop trying to bother people that don't.

And yet, you're told by your imaginary 2000-year-old Jewish zombie buddy that you're supposed to convert the great unwashed into believers.

That's why people like you really suck - you make up rules for other people that you yourself refuse to follow.

I'm not an idiot, and you're definitely a jerk.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#8 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
I
1. I guess the numbers arent at all skewed since christians have a higher population than atheists? Besides, whats your proof?
2. So I guess atheists dont do good things to make themselves feel better? Or look good in front of others? EVERYONE does good things for selfish reasons.
3. Well theres a difference between being drunk and being a christian dont you think? Or is the bias blinding you from seeing anything LOGICALLY?
1. We're not talking numbers, we're talking percentages. Sorry you couldn't grasp that. And since your math skills are wanting, you won't comprehend the proof that I could lay out. So, for others reading this who DO understand statistics, I present the evidence and the proof:
"Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/ Barna no longer has this report online. However, a review of the report is at: http://www.adherents.com/
"Bible belt has nation's worse divorce rate," CNN.com , 1999-NOV-12. Online at: http://www.cnn.com/ (Cache copy as of 2000-FEB-11. The page has since expired.) A similar report is at: http://www.divorcereform.org/
David Crary, "Deep in the Bible Belt, a counterattack on the nation's worst divorce rate," Detroit News, 1999-NOV-11, at: http://detnews.com/
"Survey provides profile of Protestant Pastors," 1998-JAN-6, at: http://www.barna.org/
"Divorce statistics collection: Summary of findings so far," Americans for Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/
"Fresh Thinking Needed on Divorce Issues," Jesus Journal, at: http://www.jesusjournal.com/
John Rossomando, "Born-Again Christians No More Immune to Divorce Than Others, Says Author," CNSNews, 2002-JAN-21, at: http://www.cnsnews.com/
Donald Hughes, "The Divorce Reality." 109 pages. This is an eBook written from a positive, conservative Christian. It can be purchased and then downloaded from Theatron Media at: www.Bookstore.TheatronMedia.com
William V. D'Antonio, "Walking the walk on family values," The Boston Globe, 2004-OCT-31, at: http://www.boston.com/
James Veverka, "The moral hypocrisy of the Bible Belt," Stop The Religious Right, undated, at: http://www.stopthereligiousright.org/
Arland Thornton, "Children and Marital Stability," Journal of Marriage and the Family, Vol. 39,#3, 1977-AUG, Pages 531-539. Abstract at: http://www.eric.ed.gov/
Andrew Cherlin, "The effect of children on marital dissolution," Demography©, Vol. 14,#3, 1977-AUG, Pages 265 to 272. Abstract at: http://links.jstor.org/
"Bible Belt Leads U.S. In Divorces," National Center for Policy Analysis, 1999-NOV-19, at: http://www.ncpa.org/
"U.S. state divorce rates including 2004 data." Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/
2. So your opinion is that people are Christian because it makes them feel better about themselves? Then they are selfish and prideful, and hence cannot be true followers of Christ. My point was simple - atheists do good works even though there is no "reward" waiting for them in "heaven", whereas Christians are told to do those same good works so that they are rewarded in heaven. Clearly, the concept of a reward in heaven is not essential for performing good works, and atheists thus perform them more selflessly.
3. Do you not understand analogies either? Christianity removes people from reality by excusing them from any kind of responsibility or logic (since a nonexistant father figure told them to do this or that.) It affects their judgement in basically the same way as a drug addict's judgment is affected, since they will attempt to rationalize anything they do as God-sanctioned actions. Evangelical Christianity is very much a drug. It's addictive, and like most drug addicts Christians would rather be with other Christians than secular people who might ruin their "high." What's the difference between a crackhead's high and the rapturous state of a self-injecting Christian?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#9 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
I guess the numbers arent at all skewed since christians have a higher population than atheists? Besides, whats your proof?
We're not talking numbers, we're talking percentages. Sorry you couldn't grasp that. And since your math skills are wanting, you won't comprehend the proof that I could lay out. So, for others reading this who DO understand statistics, I present the evidence and the proof:

"Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/ Barna no longer has this report online. However, a review of the report is at: http://www.adherents.com/

"Bible belt has nation's worse divorce rate," CNN.com , 1999-NOV-12. Online at: http://www.cnn.com/ (Cache copy as of 2000-FEB-11. The page has since expired.) A similar report is at: http://www.divorcereform.org/

David Crary, "Deep in the Bible Belt, a counterattack on the nation's worst divorce rate," Detroit News, 1999-NOV-11, at: http://detnews.com/

"Survey provides profile of Protestant Pastors," 1998-JAN-6, at: http://www.barna.org/

"Divorce statistics collection: Summary of findings so far," Americans for Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/

"Fresh Thinking Needed on Divorce Issues," Jesus Journal, at: http://www.jesusjournal.com/

John Rossomando, "Born-Again Christians No More Immune to Divorce Than Others, Says Author," CNSNews, 2002-JAN-21, at: http://www.cnsnews.com/

Donald Hughes, "The Divorce Reality." 109 pages. This is an eBook written from a positive, conservative Christian. It can be purchased and then downloaded from Theatron Media at: www.Bookstore.TheatronMedia.com

William V. D'Antonio, "Walking the walk on family values," The Boston Globe, 2004-OCT-31, at: http://www.boston.com/

James Veverka, "The moral hypocrisy of the Bible Belt," Stop The Religious Right, undated, at: http://www.stopthereligiousright.org/

Arland Thornton, "Children and Marital Stability," Journal of Marriage and the Family, Vol. 39,#3, 1977-AUG, Pages 531-539. Abstract at: http://www.eric.ed.gov/

Andrew Cherlin, "The effect of children on marital dissolution," Demography©, Vol. 14,#3, 1977-AUG, Pages 265 to 272. Abstract at: http://links.jstor.org/

"Bible Belt Leads U.S. In Divorces," National Center for Policy Analysis, 1999-NOV-19, at: http://www.ncpa.org/

"U.S. state divorce rates including 2004 data." Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#10 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
So I guess atheists dont do good things to make themselves feel better? Or look good in front of others? EVERYONE does good things for selfish reasons. Cant walk around that
So your opinion is that people are Christian because it makes them feel better about themselves? Then they are selfish and prideful, and hence cannot be true followers of Christ. My point was simple - atheists do good works even though there is no "reward" waiting for them in "heaven", whereas Christians are told to do those same good works so that they are rewarded in heaven. Clearly, the concept of a reward in heaven is not essential for performing good works, and atheists thus perform them more selflessly.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#11 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
Well theres a difference between being drunk and being a christian dont you think? Or is the bias blinding you from seeing anything LOGICALLY?
Do you not understand analogies either? Christianity removes people from reality by excusing them from any kind of responsibility or logic (since a nonexistant father figure told them to do this or that.) It affects their judgement in basically the same way as a drug addict's judgment is affected, since they will attempt to rationalize anything they do as God-sanctioned actions. Evangelical Christianity is very much a drug. It's addictive, and like most drug addicts Christians would rather be with other Christians than secular people who might ruin their "high." What's the difference between a crackhead's high and the rapturous state of a self-medicating Christian?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#12 Apr 24, 2013
This shows the height of Christian arrogance, and perfectly makes my case:

"Couple's 2nd Child Dies After They Chose Prayer Over Medical Help"

"A Pennsylvania couple is accused of letting a second child die by refusing to seek medical medical treatment and relying on the power of prayer.

"The case has drawn national attention because it's the second time the couple is accused of this crime. Herbert and Catherine Schaible are on probation for the 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, who died of pneumonia. They're now accused of allowing their 8-month-old son to die after he suffered diarrhea and breathing problems.

"The couple's probation required them to seek medical care for their other seven kids. That allowed them to avoided jail even though they were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

"The Schaibles are members of the First Century Gospel Church, which believes in treating illnesses with prayer, and that seeking medical treatment is a sin."

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/5745-couple...
--------

This story illustrates why belief in Satan, God, sin, and the "power" of prayer are dangerous things. Two little children who could have been saved died for no reason, because their parents believed in the lies that Christianity spreads.

Why haven't any moderate or liberal Christians spoken out about this?

I know why - because you're all cowards. You're afraid to admit that praying is NOT an effective way of healing a sick child.

Science works, prayer does not.

I am really angry at the Christian community for its failure to prevent this unspeakable tragedy.
little lamb

Australia

#13 Apr 24, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
God sends Hid children to warn the lost. Satan sends his children to call God a liar.
Love it.....

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#14 Apr 24, 2013
Speaking of cowards, who is the coward that judged my post about the Christian parents who prayed instead of calling a doctor?

If you think I'm clueless be an adult and post a response.

Otherwise, you justify my branding of evangelical Christians as cowards.
Flygerian

United States

#15 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
So your opinion is that people are Christian because it makes them feel better about themselves? Then they are selfish and prideful, and hence cannot be true followers of Christ. My point was simple - atheists do good works even though there is no "reward" waiting for them in "heaven", whereas Christians are told to do those same good works so that they are rewarded in heaven. Clearly, the concept of a reward in heaven is not essential for performing good works, and atheists thus perform them more selflessly.
Thats what YOU said. I never said thats my opinion. What I did say is that there are atheists that do not do the right thing because "its the right thing to do" THey do it because it makes them feel better about themselves or to look good in front of others. SELFISH. Same with christians.

It doesnt matter if the reward is in heaven or earth btw. The point is that there are atheists (heck people of ALL groups) that do good things to look good in front of others. So its not just the blanket statement you made that they do it because "its the right thing to do"
Flygerian

United States

#16 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you not understand analogies either? Christianity removes people from reality by excusing them from any kind of responsibility or logic (since a nonexistant father figure told them to do this or that.) It affects their judgement in basically the same way as a drug addict's judgment is affected, since they will attempt to rationalize anything they do as God-sanctioned actions. Evangelical Christianity is very much a drug. It's addictive, and like most drug addicts Christians would rather be with other Christians than secular people who might ruin their "high." What's the difference between a crackhead's high and the rapturous state of a self-medicating Christian?
Sorry religion is not a drug. I know your hate of those that believe in some Higher Power blinds you, but this is not the case.

You said drunks were happier than sober people. What happens when the drink wears off? They're back to their sad state right? How is this comparable with religion? Ready? GO!!!
Flygerian

United States

#17 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
We're not talking numbers, we're talking percentages. Sorry you couldn't grasp that. And since your math skills are wanting, you won't comprehend the proof that I could lay out. So, for others reading this who DO understand statistics, I present the evidence and the proof:
"Christians are more likely to experience divorce than are non-Christians," Barna Research Group, 1999-DEC-21, at: http://www.barna.org/ Barna no longer has this report online. However, a review of the report is at: http://www.adherents.com/
"Bible belt has nation's worse divorce rate," CNN.com , 1999-NOV-12. Online at: http://www.cnn.com/ (Cache copy as of 2000-FEB-11. The page has since expired.) A similar report is at: http://www.divorcereform.org/
David Crary, "Deep in the Bible Belt, a counterattack on the nation's worst divorce rate," Detroit News, 1999-NOV-11, at: http://detnews.com/
"Survey provides profile of Protestant Pastors," 1998-JAN-6, at: http://www.barna.org/
"Divorce statistics collection: Summary of findings so far," Americans for Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/
"Fresh Thinking Needed on Divorce Issues," Jesus Journal, at: http://www.jesusjournal.com/
John Rossomando, "Born-Again Christians No More Immune to Divorce Than Others, Says Author," CNSNews, 2002-JAN-21, at: http://www.cnsnews.com/
Donald Hughes, "The Divorce Reality." 109 pages. This is an eBook written from a positive, conservative Christian. It can be purchased and then downloaded from Theatron Media at: www.Bookstore.TheatronMedia.com
William V. D'Antonio, "Walking the walk on family values," The Boston Globe, 2004-OCT-31, at: http://www.boston.com/
James Veverka, "The moral hypocrisy of the Bible Belt," Stop The Religious Right, undated, at: http://www.stopthereligiousright.org/
Arland Thornton, "Children and Marital Stability," Journal of Marriage and the Family, Vol. 39,#3, 1977-AUG, Pages 531-539. Abstract at: http://www.eric.ed.gov/
Andrew Cherlin, "The effect of children on marital dissolution," Demography©, Vol. 14,#3, 1977-AUG, Pages 265 to 272. Abstract at: http://links.jstor.org/
"Bible Belt Leads U.S. In Divorces," National Center for Policy Analysis, 1999-NOV-19, at: http://www.ncpa.org/
"U.S. state divorce rates including 2004 data." Divorce Reform, at: http://www.divorcereform.org/
Wheres the comparison between atheists and christian divorce?
Flygerian

United States

#18 Apr 24, 2013
Also do you understand that anyone can say they're a christian or muslim? Does that make it the case? I guess you'll say so. So I can say I am asian and be it even though I do not fit the characteristics of an asian? I doubt you'd say so.

What Im getting at is there are ALOT of people in the US that do not actually believe in christianity (BY THEIR ACTIONS) but will say they are christian. Im sure its like that in Muslim countries and Hindu countries such as India. So the numbers will NEVER be representative of what the actually religion of christianity is about

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#19 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats what YOU said. I never said thats my opinion. What I did say is that there are atheists that do not do the right thing because "its the right thing to do" THey do it because it makes them feel better about themselves or to look good in front of others. SELFISH. Same with christians.
It doesnt matter if the reward is in heaven or earth btw. The point is that there are atheists (heck people of ALL groups) that do good things to look good in front of others. So its not just the blanket statement you made that they do it because "its the right thing to do"
What is indisputable is that atheists NEVER do good works because they believe God will reward them for doing them.

That is one blanket statement you cannot deny.

Here is another: every single Christian believes that God sees the good works they do. Therefore, no matter what good works Christians, they are conscious that God is watching and thus they are hopeful that they will receive a "reward" for their deeds.

For the record, giving money to charity or helping rebuild homes destroyed by storms without any compensation is absolutely NOT selfish when done by an atheist, because there is ZERO gain.

"Looking good in front of others" is a canard. Heck, putting on makeup or wearing nice clothing could be considered a selfish act by your standard.

The word "selfish" means "devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others." or "characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives."

People who do good works are not acting out of selfishness, unless their personal gain is greater than those of the people they are helping. A person who sets up a charitable organization and keeps ninety cents out of each dollar while spending only ten cents per dollar on the given cause could be called selfish.

But if you think that true altruism is just selfishness in disguise then you are a misguided and misanthropic fool.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#20 Apr 24, 2013
Kudos to Flygerian for evincing the very same purposeful bias he/she railed against in an earlier post.

Ah, the irony!
CWU

Tinley Park, IL

#21 Apr 24, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
Why haven't any moderate or liberal Christians spoken out about this?
Death by Faith
http://www.letusreason.org/wf25.htm

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
A Man and Woman Cleave and Become One Flesh - B... 31 min AlertChristians 1
Homeless Servant of the Lord Jesus Christ Seeki... 3 hr Taranis 2
I Sing a Praise Song that I Recall as the "Ame... 9 hr AlertChristians 1
False christs 10 hr dollarsbill 3
Satan's Fast Food Employee's are Preparing to S... 11 hr AlertChristians 1
Spiritual Warfare - Combatting Dangerous Flesh ... 11 hr dollarsbill 2
Holy Bible Scripture to Help Prepare Christians... 13 hr AlertChristians 1
More from around the web