Should a terminally ill person be all...

“Right To Die With Dignity ”

Since: Oct 11

Location hidden

#62 Nov 12, 2012
angelinaUK wrote:
<quoted text>I have found this to be true. Although I haven't been by the side of one of my own loved ones suffering I have seen so much suffering of both the ill and their loved ones of late that my previous opinions have definitely wavered.
In my previous comments, that is one of the reasons I stressed people having a Living Will and Last Will and Testament. It helps speak and make decisions for a person when they are no longer able to make medical or financial decisions. I've seen people even have to decide if they want to resuscitation or not and if a person has Wills in place then the person left to make life altering decisions for a person will have some comfort in knowing they are following through with the person unable to make decisions for themselves. It hurts and is heart breaking with or without a will, but I've seen some find relief in knowing they did what their loved one wanted when it came to medical and financial decisions. Enjoyed talking to you, AngelinaUK. I hope you are having a great day.

“so tell me......”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#63 Nov 12, 2012
COOTERDOG wrote:
<quoted text>In my previous comments, that is one of the reasons I stressed people having a Living Will and Last Will and Testament. It helps speak and make decisions for a person when they are no longer able to make medical or financial decisions. I've seen people even have to decide if they want to resuscitation or not and if a person has Wills in place then the person left to make life altering decisions for a person will have some comfort in knowing they are following through with the person unable to make decisions for themselves. It hurts and is heart breaking with or without a will, but I've seen some find relief in knowing they did what their loved one wanted when it came to medical and financial decisions. Enjoyed talking to you, AngelinaUK. I hope you are having a great day.
Thank you, yes today has gone reasonably well. Near the end of the day here now and the dark nights are drawing in. Time to hibernate.

I agree with you. Anything that makes a persons passing easier must be a good thing.

Since: Aug 07

Akron, OH

#64 Nov 12, 2012
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
And you call this deep? lol
Suicide is the unlawful taking of Gods gift, life. Just like murder except for the victim will be judged by the only True Judge, God since they are not in this life any longer.
Seen is like anyone else. He has no insight on what God will or will not do to the victim. He just thinks he does.
so god would rather let a person suffer?if its alright to use drugs to extend our lives then it should be alright to use them to end it.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#65 Nov 12, 2012
PROV1X81 wrote:
<quoted text>
so god would rather let a person suffer?if its alright to use drugs to extend our lives then it should be alright to use them to end it.
Interesting analogy...is it for profit healthcare that keeps this from being allowed,do you think? more money to be made in keeping a person alive who's going to die soon, than letting them take their lives before the death becomes too painful?
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#67 Nov 12, 2012
Native from Pa wrote:
Cliff
WRONG, THE BIBLE is very clear THAT YOU SHOULD NOT MURDER NOR KILL... So taking your own life would be considered MURDER and God forbids us to do such... SO NO you cannot take your own life unless you want to burn in hell for doing it...
<quoted text>
Silly, Native... still can't get over the fact that the word hell doesn't appear in the bible and there is no veracity to the use of the word hell in christianity. Poor soulless creature.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#68 Nov 12, 2012
Native from Pa wrote:
Cliff
WRONG, THE BIBLE is very clear THAT YOU SHOULD NOT MURDER NOR KILL... So taking your own life would be considered MURDER and God forbids us to do such... SO NO you cannot take your own life unless you want to burn in hell for doing it...
<quoted text>
Well, fool! I guess you are a vegetarian then!
At least you don't kill then.

The commandment is: do no murder. Everybody may Kill.
We don't follow obvious mistranslations!

ERROR COMMANDMENT:
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/do-no-m...

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#69 Nov 12, 2012
Kenose wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly, Native... still can't get over the fact that the word hell doesn't appear in the bible and there is no veracity to the use of the word hell in christianity. Poor soulless creature.
Hell was the place the jews buried their sinner: thief, murderers etc. God used it in his communication to them.

Search bible for 'hell'
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/cgi-bin...

Here some quotes:
SA2 22: 6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
JOB 11: 8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
JOB 26: 6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
PSA 9: 17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
PSA 16: 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
PSA 18: 5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
PSA 55: 15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
PSA 86: 13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
PSA 116: 3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
PSA 139: 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
PRO 5: 5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#72 Nov 12, 2012
Native from Pa wrote:
Cliff
you do not read the Bible very well
Anyone who calls someone fool is in danger of HELL
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says,‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
—Matthew 5:22
<quoted text>
You don't read very well:

a) is angry with is brother WITHOUT A CAUSE.

b) brother in this context mean another Christian or the son of his motherr.

The fool whom I answered is not a christian, for he would understand the Gospel of Christ.But he is a Fool!

----------
MAT 5: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a CAUSE shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
----------

What Jesus can say, I can say!

----------
GAL 3: 1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
----------

HE IS NOT A BROTHER.

----------

- The Gospel is not the way you like to see it: it is the way it is.
- Jesus taught those who follow him only to Preach what he taught them - for they can never Teach you.

Calling The Unbeliever, Confronting The Lukewarm, Exposing The Hypocrite
Do Not Follow Men, Nor Churches! Come to Christ, says God!
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/christi...
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/baptism...

- Murder: the unauthorized (by God) killing of a creature
- Killing: the authorized (by God) putting to death of a creature
- Judging: In Christianity, the prohibited 'judging' is to execute a penalty upon another as retribution for their sins.
- CO1 5: 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#74 Nov 13, 2012
Cliff09 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hell was the place the jews buried their sinner: thief, murderers etc. God used it in his communication to them.
Search bible for 'hell'
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/cgi-bin...
Here some quotes:
SA2 22: 6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
JOB 11: 8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
JOB 26: 6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.
PSA 9: 17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
PSA 16: 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
PSA 18: 5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
PSA 55: 15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
PSA 86: 13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
PSA 116: 3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
PSA 139: 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
PRO 5: 5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
The word Hel/hell didn't exist until the year 700, approximately. Did your bible scribes have a time machine and transport themselves to Northern Europe where the word originated??


Job say Sheol, you dimwit! Sheol isn't hell.
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#75 Nov 13, 2012
Native from Pa wrote:
Kenose
It is you that is CLUELESS the word hell does appear in the Bible.
65 times was the word Sheol used and the word hell comes from the word SHEOL and that was used around 31 times you should study..
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
—Matthew 10:28
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
—Mark 9:44
<quoted text>
See my post above, Native.

Matthew.... my favorite!!! Did you chop off body parts that have caused you to sin? Also, Matthew says Gehenna and not hell.

Tartarus, Sheol, Hades and Gehenna are not hell, but your religions live have you duped.
Sheol isn't hell.
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#76 Nov 13, 2012
Native from Pa wrote:
Cliff
you do not read the Bible very well
Anyone who calls someone fool is in danger of HELL
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says,‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
—Matthew 5:22
<quoted text>
Nope, it says Gehenna of fire. Try being honest, for once.

The fact remains that the first recorded use of the word or variant of the word Hel/hell was in the year 700 and it originated amongst those you would call vikings. Truth hurts.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#78 Nov 13, 2012
Kenose wrote:
<quoted text>
The word Hel/hell didn't exist until the year 700, approximately. Did your bible scribes have a time machine and transport themselves to Northern Europe where the word originated??
Job say Sheol, you dimwit! Sheol isn't hell.
Well, fool:language changes with time: very fast in some places. The word means just what I said it does: burial place of the wicked, back then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades_in_Christi...

Proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

It means grave, pit, or burieal place of the wicked, to the Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

Read all the truth on:
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#79 Nov 13, 2012
Native from Pa wrote:
Kenose
I will trust my BIBLE over you any day of the week.
<quoted text>
But the original bible never used the word hell.

It's pretty sad that you refuse to accept the fact that the word hel/hell didn't exist until 700+ years after the bible was compiled.

Do some research yourself!
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#80 Nov 13, 2012
Cliff09 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, fool:language changes with time: very fast in some places. The word means just what I said it does: burial place of the wicked, back then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades_in_Christi...
Proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
It means grave, pit, or burieal place of the wicked, to the Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
Read all the truth on:
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com
Cliffy, we've debated this before you still cling to your religious lies. It's pretty sad.

Hades is a GREEK word and idea. Who cares about how your religon distorted it's meaning? Hades is not the same as your christard lie of hell.

Sheol means grave or pit.

Gehenna was a literal place on earth, a reference to the valley of Hinnom... is your christian lie of hell a place on Earth!? LOL

Do objective research for once... objective being the key word.
Kenose

Norwalk, CT

#81 Nov 13, 2012
Cliff09 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, fool:language changes with time: very fast in some places. The word means just what I said it does: burial place of the wicked, back then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades_in_Christi...
Proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
It means grave, pit, or burieal place of the wicked, to the Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
Read all the truth on:
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com
Here is a quote from your link about Sheol:
Sheol
"a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous"

Do all the dead go to hell in your religion?? I don't think so!

I've already explained that Gehenna was a place on Earth.

Hades really is a Greek God and the realm of the dead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades

Let me know when you come to accept these basic facts.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#82 Nov 13, 2012
Kenose wrote:
<quoted text>
Cliffy, we've debated this before you still cling to your religious lies. It's pretty sad.
Hades is a GREEK word and idea. Who cares about how your religon distorted it's meaning? Hades is not the same as your christard lie of hell.
Sheol means grave or pit.
Gehenna was a literal place on earth, a reference to the valley of Hinnom... is your christian lie of hell a place on Earth!? LOL
Do objective research for once... objective being the key word.
If a village called 'Ghanna' is used to bury the wicked people from the USA -killers, etc. then after a while that place will be known, not for its landscapes, but for the graves of the wicked that are there buried, and so it will be known as 'Ghanna': if you sin you go to Ghanna!

Who cares if it is hell or ghanna or what name: it is not the name but the essence!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#83 Nov 13, 2012
Hell Sucks wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you are good at creating discussions opposed to what happens on many non~productive threads. And this is another good topic. I basically disagree with her opinion as plausible since I have been subjected to this much with those dying slowly and suffering, unfortunately.
There is a difference between a person that is terminally ill and suffering not continuing their life support and simply committing suicide. Prolonging a life that would have ended without artificial means is FAR from suicide.
And NO, those people dying in a hospital bed do NOT have means of committing suicide. If they pull a plug or IV it immediately notifies the staff. Furthermore, most of my faith believe suicide is strictly forbidden as it is not our life to take, so it is murder, even to self. Not choosing life-support is far from murder or suicide.
I don't believe anyone has a say with whether our life should be extended through artificial means. Not religion, not politicians, not anyone. It should be a right. Most states now allow not prolonging one's life in that circumstance if the individual has signed paperwork before they are in that condition. Most fail to do that.
We didn't ask to be born either.
Hell Sucks wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you are good at creating discussions opposed to what happens on many non~productive threads. And this is another good topic. I basically disagree with her opinion as plausible since I have been subjected to this much with those dying slowly and suffering, unfortunately.
There is a difference between a person that is terminally ill and suffering not continuing their life support and simply committing suicide. Prolonging a life that would have ended without artificial means is FAR from suicide.
And NO, those people dying in a hospital bed do NOT have means of committing suicide. If they pull a plug or IV it immediately notifies the staff. Furthermore, most of my faith believe suicide is strictly forbidden as it is not our life to take, so it is murder, even to self. Not choosing life-support is far from murder or suicide.
I don't believe anyone has a say with whether our life should be extended through artificial means. Not religion, not politicians, not anyone. It should be a right. Most states now allow not prolonging one's life in that circumstance if the individual has signed paperwork before they are in that condition. Most fail to do that.
We didn't ask to be born either.
I guess that is what I failed to elaborate upon. That in a terminal illness/injury, without medical intervention one would die. And if they are young enough MAYBE they could survive and go on living. But like my father, he was kept "alive" entirely by artificial means. He could not eat so my mother had to insert a tube down his throat to "feed" him the formula. His waste was removed at intervals by a special apparatus with tubes coming from his intestines. So even if he had the strength to get up, he could not because of the life support. Just lying there day after day trembling from the overwhelming pain unable to focus or even think of much anything else. His throat a hideous mass of cancer so he could not talk to anyone even if anyone could stomach to visit him looking like he did. So what is the point of keeping him "alive" just for the sake of keeping him alive? He was 76 years old with probably more cancer than flesh or workable organs with nothing to look forward to but another day of lying there trembling in unbearable pain and knowing he was dying and there was no way out. So keeping him "alive" by artificial means at that point is just plain sick and cruel. It is only keeping them alive just to torture them. There is no point in doing that.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#84 Nov 13, 2012
Oops, sorry about not editing out one of HS's posts.

Since: Oct 07

UK

#85 Nov 13, 2012
I believe in the freedom of choice and people should legally by law be permitted to choose for themselves or loved ones be able to choose for them when a person is not in a position to do so themselves.

.Each and every situation will be different and each person will have their own views on it .

My choice will always be too choose life based on my own experiences and if I was In a situation where I heard the Lord say its okay this time is different you are permitted to take this life . either my own or a loved ones then he would have to back it up big big time with writing on the wall a band of angels some talking asses and a burning bush for I believe with all my heart and soul that thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not kill but I also understand empathise and have mercy and compassion on those who would choose otherwise and know only too well the agonizing decisions that have to be made in regards to these matters

Since: Oct 07

UK

#86 Nov 13, 2012
Sorry about what your father and yous all suffered through that experience 5een . I myself have agonized over when do we intervene and sustain life where there's no quality f life and when do we step back and let nature take its coutse . I remember agonizing over my Mother who didn't even have the swallow reflex when pvs and was fed intravenously through a tube in her stomach and going back and forth between is it right to continue feeding her and keeping her alive or is it right to stop feeding her and let her die like the medical team shoulkd have done years previous . My best friend held my hand one night as I agonized and said Liz babies can't feed themselves our instinct to preserve life kicks in and we feed them . I still don't know if that helped or
hindered . This subject has way more than fifty shades of grey which is why I believe legally we should have a choice and all be permitted to follow our heart

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