Heresy of Arnold Murray and Shepherd'...

Hell Sucks

“THE HEAT IS ON”

Since: Apr 12

Satan IS in "The Church"

#34 Mar 1, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Okay...but for any Xtian to say another Xtian has a "faulty" view of hell is very funny to me...especially since most of what goes for the understanding of hell is more from the popular culture (over the centuries) than scripture...
Its funny to me how much Xtians focus on the inconsequential in their critiques of other Xtians.
I don't focus on Hell at all, which is to be thrown into the Lake of Fire. I focus on Heaven. Negativity has no worth in my here and now or my Spiritual life and future. I have no desire to portray God in that manner. However, I believe on the Bible. I'd rather others see the glass half full.

Hell Sucks

“THE HEAT IS ON”

Since: Apr 12

Satan IS in "The Church"

#36 Mar 1, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
Annihilation IS taught in in the Bible. Psalm 37 proves it beyond a doubt. Second death, the soul that sinneth, it shall die. The wages of sin is DEATH. No eternal punishment taught there.
You're stunted in every way possible. Do you reject the words of Christ too?

Matt. 25:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. We shall not enter into the discussions that have arisen over this controverted passage. These things are certain:(1) A separation between the righteous and the wicked takes place at judgment.(2) The righteous inherit the kingdom; the wicked depart into everlasting fire.(3) The state of the righteous is life eternal; the state of the wicked is everlasting punishment.(4) The duration of these two states is the same, exactly the same Greek word being used in each case ( aionios ). Then if the state of punishment has an end, so has the life.~ People's New Testament

You are also a mental and spiritual cripple. So you are in a better state in this world as what you misunderstand for the next.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Santa Fe, NM

#37 Mar 1, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not a trick answer. I try to follow the Binle, the Word of God. Doesn't say anything abut creeds in there. I beleive that is another dogma the catholics came up with.
That's what I thought. You don't know what you believe. You're just blowing smoke out your butt but I wanted to hear it straight from the horse's butt.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Santa Fe, NM

#38 Mar 1, 2013
By the way, Wayne, it was a trick question, as your non-answer confirms.

God bless you.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Santa Fe, NM

#39 Mar 1, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you aren't reading it. One of many verses that prove annihilation...
Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
What does smoke do? It wafts upwards and eventually disappears. So shall be the fate of the wicked. NOT screaming in torment for all eternity.
No really. But anyway, according to that, hell does not exist but the Bible says it does. What's up with that?
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#40 Mar 2, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and the catholic church makes a KILLING at it.
As do the protys, and their despicable Mega-Churches...as the down-home Proty halls do when suddenly its found out the Pastor has been misusing collection monies, and is diddling the Wife of someone, or maybe banging his way thru the teen choir...

Protys are as guilty of making a profit off their God as the RCC. maybe more so when you think of the vast numbers of Proty "churches". Find an empty spot, rent it and slap a church label on it and there's another of them...like Chinese take-out, without the food...
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#41 Mar 2, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
And it's funny how a atheist/ex-catholic like you hang on the heresies of the cc.
What am I hanging on to? What lie are you trying to imply...?

cc? cc rider? ccr? Creedence?

Hey, ccr is rcc backwards...is John Fogerty the messiah, or anti-christ? its all in the Bible codes, right? Damn, maybe thats why he got the shaft from the record company...he's the anti-christ.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#44 Mar 2, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
And it's funny how a atheist/ex-catholic like you hang on the heresies of the cc.
LEts get something straight. When and IF I defend the RCC its for purely practical and logical reasons.

The RCC by far has done the better job of substantiating its claims to the Apostolic lineage than any Proty sect can hope to do. Besides being as "close to the bone", as well as their brethren in the Eastern Orthodox Church, they have spent far more time, with much better minds at work than all of Protestantism combined - dissecting the Bible to their agendas.

Protestantism is the Johnny Come Lately - historically - and has spun off so many cults and sects and ideas - to make the, groundbreaking (historically-culturally) hard and actually intellectual work of Luther and Calvin, et al - look like a total waste of time. That Protys over time, up to these pathetic American versions have so bastardized the insights of Luther/Calvin, so completely ignore their admonitions of too much solo bible reading/study...and as result have ended up with a foul smelling stew of ideas that often contradict not only each other, but scripture in whole (as Protys prefer to abuse the parts over the whole) makes them look like a bunch of bad cover bands. Trying desperately to be like the Legends, but are only doing a pathetic cover of them...

While I dont believe in any of it - RCC or Proty - at least the RCC has some real lineage and link to the earliest days and is by far the better prepared to support its Theology. Far better. And they are certainly not the inbred breeding ground for so many sects and worse cults of personality that typically end so badly for the sheep. Not a lot of Catholic cults springing up...not a lot of Catholics claiming to be the rightful and reincarnate Messiah...(hell we have those proty loons around here!)

That Protys rely on over 90% of their theology-doctrines shows how much they need the RCC. That Protys are still so addicted to their vilification of them adds to that need. Protys NEED targets for the festering hatred and vile ways in the world. You are the most self-righteous, accusatory bunch that has ever been Humanity's disgrace to have among us.

And when Fundys like you who jump from charismatic sect/cult leader to another and another till you find the poison that most suits your forked tongues - only proves the RCC's POV's - and the corrupt nature of Fundamentalist Protestantism.

And when Fundys like you think you can quote a few abstract lines from the Bible and settle the matter - it makes me laugh all the more. You have nothing but wisps of smoke to blow when you and the other Fundy Proty's around here try and disprove, discredit the rightful place of the RCC in the Xtian traditions.

That YOU and Roman Rode Hard(put away wet) and others think you have the chops to go up against the RCC shows how deluded you all are, and how little you know and/or comprehend the truth of the history of the whole Xtian experience...

The only thing I like or am concerned about re; the RCC, is that they are possession of a lot of really cool art and architecture and most probably vaults full of the same - that is all a very important part of western culture - that I would love to see better appreciated and preserved. And as for their vaults - I would love to the next Pope, or the next, to open those doors for a full viewing.

But support the RCC? Not me.
David

United States

#45 Mar 2, 2013
The rcc is so corrupt, and full of lies, its hard to understand how anyone can be fooled by them. There is no need of a priest to absolve u of ur sins. Much less fool u with traditions of man that will condemn u to hell. Wow. So ignorant. I bet yall have never read ur bible all the way thru. U probably would have accused Paul of herisey.

Hell Sucks

“THE HEAT IS ON”

Since: Apr 12

Satan IS in "The Church"

#46 Mar 2, 2013
David wrote:
The rcc is so corrupt, and full of lies, its hard to understand how anyone can be fooled by them. There is no need of a priest to absolve u of ur sins. Much less fool u with traditions of man that will condemn u to hell. Wow. So ignorant. I bet yall have never read ur bible all the way thru. U probably would have accused Paul of herisey.
Well David, another giant will fall, but this time it will be by the mighty hand of Christ and not just the power David was given to slay a single giant. This falling will include many.
David

United States

#47 Mar 2, 2013
All things happens according to the will of GOD. IT is evident that the falling away of the body of Christ is occurring.

Hell Sucks

“THE HEAT IS ON”

Since: Apr 12

Satan IS in "The Church"

#48 Mar 2, 2013
David wrote:
All things happens according to the will of GOD. IT is evident that the falling away of the body of Christ is occurring.
2 Thess. 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2:3 Except there come a falling away first. An apostasy must precede the Coming. That is, there shall be a general falling away from the purity of the faith. No apostasy of magnitude occurred in the history of the church for centuries, which could answer to Paul's description, but the gradual declension, corruption, and departure from the ancient faith, which was fully developed a few hundred years later, has always been spoken of by Protestant church historians as The Apostasy. There is no good reason for doubting that it is to the apostle refers.

And that man of sin be revealed. He shall be revealed then in connection with the apostasy.

The son of perdition. This expression occurs once elsewhere, and is there applied to Judas, an apostate (Joh 17:12). Here it evidently has a similar application. Some power, once Christian, falls away and becomes opposed to Christ.~People's NT

;*:*;
David

United States

#49 Mar 2, 2013
Oh I forgot this was a forum about shepherd's chapel. I have studied with Arnold Murray,les feldic, Vernon mcgee etc. I have found some good in them and some I don't agree with. I will say thru and thru Murray is easier to understand. Les is good separating law from Grace. McGee is easy to follow also. I do believe all souls come from God and will return to him. Ezk. Ch. 18. Also believe in pre destination. Jerimiah, and Esau. I know it seems Calvinist but I believe salvation is available to any person. As Christians we should be careful not to co.demn people because they have their whole life to repent and accept Jesus as their saviour. And Christians should be able to love one another enough to agree on basic principes and to disagree also. Murray does come off very condensing at times. And he needs to learn how to let stuff go. No reason to get upset.
David

United States

#51 Mar 2, 2013
We are not quacks and no man is GOD. Some people are ignorant you just can't help it. God has blinded some and blissfully allows them to believe a lie. Some are blinded by the prince of this world, which u seem to be.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#54 Mar 2, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
Annihilation IS taught in in the Bible. Psalm 37 proves it beyond a doubt.
I don't see anything on any "annihilation":

Psalm 37

1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

3 Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

4 Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.

10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.

13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.

14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.

15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.

16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.

17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the Lord upholdeth the righteous.

18 The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.

22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.

23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.

24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.

25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.

27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.

28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.

33 The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.

36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.

37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.

38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.

39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the Lord: he is their strength in the time of trouble.

40 And the Lord shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#55 Mar 2, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh shut up Astro Boy.
Which has nothing to do with my post. So here, try again:

"First off, I find it deceptive how you equate the evil hateful racist teachings of Murray, to believing in the bible. They are NOT the same thing. Murray just makes up clever sounding lies about what HE claims the bible means, but they do NOT mean what he falsely claims they do. And so people can believe in the bible without believing his lies.

Second, the real God is WAY beyond the silly MISrepresentation of the Christian demonic fake "god". And those of us who have met the real God, have you use for your ridiculous book of lies."

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#56 Mar 2, 2013
Sola Scriptura wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no desire to portray God in that matter? Then you are leaving out half of Gods character because He IS a judging God and will render judgment to the wicked.
If all you preach is God is Love you are not keeping Gods Word.
YES!

EXACTLY!

He will render his judgment upon the WICKED, and your belief in your stupid mythology has NOTHING to do with it.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#57 Mar 2, 2013
David wrote:
The rcc is so corrupt, and full of lies, its hard to understand how anyone can be fooled by them. There is no need of a priest to absolve u of ur sins. Much less fool u with traditions of man that will condemn u to hell. Wow. So ignorant. I bet yall have never read ur bible all the way thru. U probably would have accused Paul of herisey.
So what's the difference, all of the roughly 30,000 different Christian denominations are based upon the book of lies that came from the Catholics anyway. So >>>ALL<<< of you are left spiritually ignorant and will FAIL your judgment.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#58 Mar 2, 2013
David wrote:
Oh I forgot this was a forum about shepherd's chapel. I have studied with Arnold Murray,les feldic, Vernon mcgee etc. I have found some good in them and some I don't agree with. I will say thru and thru Murray is easier to understand. Les is good separating law from Grace. McGee is easy to follow also.
Thanks for proving the point I keep making about you Christians, that this whole "magic spirit" thingy is just a con job. There is no such thing. Because if there was, you would ALL be guided to the SAME alleged ultimate "truths". But NONE of you can agree on much of anything, and just believe whatever you want to believe of what other men tell you it means.
David wrote:
I do believe all souls come from God and will return to him. Ezk.
Yes, the real God created ALL souls when he created the physical universe/realm. And ALL souls will return to him in Heaven/the spiritual universe/himself when they have spiritually evolved enough to pass their judgment.
David wrote:
Also believe in pre destination.
No such thing.
David wrote:
I know it seems Calvinist but I believe salvation is available to any person.
Yes, any person can fall for the evil Christian brainwashing if they are not careful.
David wrote:
As Christians we should be careful not to co.demn people because they have their whole life to repent and accept Jesus as their saviour.
No, there are many good people who are too strong in the real God to fall for the evil Christian brainwashing. So you should not condemn others who are more spiritually advanced than you are.
David wrote:
And Christians should be able to love one another enough to agree on basic principes and to disagree also.
Are you ever in for a surprise on Topix. Many so called Christians here will attack you with every foul insult they can think of if you disagree with them.
David wrote:
Murray does come off very condensing at times. And he needs to learn how to let stuff go. No reason to get upset.
Murray is an evil man who poisons people's souls with his poison of racist hatred toward one's fellow man. Purge all of his hateful evil lies or you will surely FAIL your judgment.
David

United States

#60 Mar 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
When you want to reply to a specific post, move your courser to the "REPLY" in the upper right corner of the post and click on it. This will bring up and include the post you want to reply to, so that people will know who you are conversing with.
I thank you for the reply. To many people are very angry on these web sites. I know I used to get angry. Just wanted to know ur thoughts or anyone else's on pre destination. I do believe that God tells Jeremiah that he knew him before he was in his mother's womb. What would be ur interpretation. Then Paul is called a chosen vessel, of course this might go against a pre destination perspective, considering Paul was persecuting the body of Christ at the time God struck him blind on the road to Damascus. Thank u for ur insights and polite conversation.

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