Near Death Experiences

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#228 May 17, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The Hittite people and empire were said to be a Hebrew myth borrowed by the Hebrews from a different culture for their own story. Oops, that isn't a myth the Hebrews created after all :)
Oops, I never said any such thing.

Is that all you can do, toss out logical fallacies like the straw man argument you just made?

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#229 May 17, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Near-Death-Experiences are continually being ignored by people who don't want to believe that the soul lives on.
This is where we disconnect. You want to believe something exists, so you only look at evidence that points toward its existence.

I look at ALL the evidence, and if it's inconclusive then I say "I don't know."

If the evidence is overwhelming in one direction or another then I form an informed opinion.

Trust me, I would love to believe the soul lives on after death. But there is no evidence that the soul even exists, so it would be intellectually dishonest to delude myself into believing it does.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#230 May 17, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Near-Death-Experiences are continually being ignored by people who don't want to believe that the soul lives on. They are a subject that has never been discussed here. I have tried a few times to start a thread here about them and this the most successful one.
It's not just about my experience but the many that have been reported. No theory has answered all experiences.
People say things like it has been proven that a lack of oxygen causes them and I highlight the faults with that theory.
NDEs are caused by the brain shutting down. Since there are many different things going on when that happens, there is no single specific cause of NDEs.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

http://www.michaelshermer.com/tag/near-death

http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/the-great...
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#231 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, you've nailed it -.
AH YOU HAVE NAILED NOTHING!
Here's a site that answers those:
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/bible.htm#...
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#232 May 17, 2013
BATS ARE NOT BIRDS?

LVITICUS 11:13:
'And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls...and the stork, the heron after her kind, and
the lapwing, and the bat. Leviticus 11:13,19

The error in this translation is the use of the word fowls from the Hebrew word owph which literally refers to any flying creature. The original
Hebrew text is explaining what flying creatures were acceptable for consumption and which ones were not. Because the bat is technically a
flying creature, it was accurately included in this list.

Why didn't the Bible just classify the bat with other mammals?
ANSWER: At the time, the bat fit best under the classification of winged creatures. The extensive scientific classifications we have today did not
exist 3500 years ago. The Bible listing the bat with other winged creatures was literally and technically correct. Just because modern definitions have changed does not make the 3500 year old classification of winged creatures incorrect.
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#233 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, you've nailed it - the Bible was written by people who had limited knowledge. I agree. That's why the Bible can NOT be the inerrant Word of God, because if God truly had spoken through the Bible authors then there wouldn't be all that false information!
WHAT HAS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF A BAT GOT TO DO WITH SALVATION?
God loves and wants to save stupid people too.
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#234 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
So what? Charles Dickens wrote tales that took place in London. London, by the way, is a real place. Does that mean that all Dickens' stories were true?
Come on, get a grip!
I just wanted to show how some people couldn't be bothered to research.
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#235 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
This is where we disconnect. You want to believe something exists, so you only look at evidence that points toward its existence.
OH I DO LOOK AT SO-CALLED EVIDENCE THAT THE SOUL DOESN'T EXIST, THEN I LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE THAT THE SO-CALLED EVIDENCE DOESN'T ANSWER.
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>I look at ALL the evidence, and if it's inconclusive then I say "I don't know."
I look at all the evidence, including what I went through, then say "No the evidence isn't evidence."
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#236 May 17, 2013
When a scientist researches his suggested theory, he thinks that all the people involved in his experiement represent all people. So he ignores the others.

If NDEs were a normal part of the dying process why don't they occur to everyone in that situation, and why aren't they always exacty the same?
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#237 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
NDEs are caused by the brain shutting down.
a
DOES THE BRAIN HAVE TO BE ACTUALLY SHUTTING DOWN TO HAVE THEM?
Jesus is

Rowville, Australia

#238 May 17, 2013
YOUR BRAIN DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SHUTTING DOWN TO HAVE THEM.

One study showed that out of 58 patients that reported experiencing “unusual” experiences associated with NDEs, 30 of them were not actually in any danger of dying.

Therefore, taking this study into consideration, they came up with the excuse that people only have to THINK that they are dying, and not be actually in danger, to have these experiences.

HOW DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DYING WHEN YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON?

We could imagine the body having a response mechanism to fear that produces chemicals in the brain that calm the individual and produce euphoric sensations, so that the individual experiences less trauma.

BUT WHY DID THIS MECHANISM EVOLVE?
IF PHYSICAL DEATH IS THE END, WHY SHOULD WE BE PROTECTED FROM FEARING IT? WHY HAVE WE BEEN EVOLUTIONALLY WIRED TO IGNORE THE 'SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST' LAW?
little lamb

Australia

#239 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
So what? There was an earthquake, and the people living there at the time didn't know what an earthquake was or what caused it, so they ascribed the event to the gods. Isaiah 45 claims that God is behind all natural disasters anyway.
.
Doesn't explain the pellets of sulphur found in the ash.

Nowhere on the earth are these pellets found

QUOTE "

In some areas of the ancient city there are numerous golf ball sized sulfur pellets. Some of them are encased in a thin, crust-like shell which was the result of burning. The sulfur pellets were tested by Wyatt and consist of 98% pure sulfur and a trace of magnesium. These brimstone balls would have burned extremely hot!

It is interesting that sulfur found in its natural form is only between 40% and 45% pure. This sulfur is extremely high grade.

Some of the pellets I found were inside rock-like slag that apparently formed when there was nothing remaining to burn and the inferno was beginning to cool off. One “rock” that I broke open had the sulfur pellet still inside!

The samples I collected would burst into an immediate toxic flame when touched with a match.

If you visit the site just after a rain storm you will find the brimstone pellets on the flat tops of the ruins. It was obvious to me that a literal rainstorm of burning sulfur fell upon these ancient cities.

http://www.discoverynews.us/DISCOVERY%20MUSEU...

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#240 May 17, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
BATS ARE NOT BIRDS?
LVITICUS 11:13:
'And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls...and the stork, the heron after her kind, and
the lapwing, and the bat. Leviticus 11:13,19
The error in this translation is the use of the word fowls from the Hebrew word owph which literally refers to any flying creature. The original
Hebrew text is explaining what flying creatures were acceptable for consumption and which ones were not. Because the bat is technically a
flying creature, it was accurately included in this list.
Why didn't the Bible just classify the bat with other mammals?
ANSWER: At the time, the bat fit best under the classification of winged creatures. The extensive scientific classifications we have today did not
exist 3500 years ago. The Bible listing the bat with other winged creatures was literally and technically correct. Just because modern definitions have changed does not make the 3500 year old classification of winged creatures incorrect.
It has NOTHING to do with definitions. Mammals don't lay eggs. Birds do.

You'd think that God would have told his ghost writers that bats have live young.

Lumping bats in with birds was absolutely ignorant. The Bible is bunk.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#241 May 17, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
<quoted text>
WHAT HAS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF A BAT GOT TO DO WITH SALVATION?
God loves and wants to save stupid people too.
The point was that the Bible is scientifically inaccurate, especially when you consider that the Egyptians were very far ahead of the Hebrews.

You'd think Yahweh would have given his people an advantage, but no...

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#242 May 17, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't explain the pellets of sulphur found in the ash.
Debunked:

http://www.diggingsonline.com/pages/rese/arts...

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#243 May 17, 2013
Jesus is wrote:
When a scientist researches his suggested theory, he thinks that all the people involved in his experiement represent all people. So he ignores the others.
If NDEs were a normal part of the dying process why don't they occur to everyone in that situation, and why aren't they always exacty the same?
Clearly you know absolutely nothing at all about science, or how scientists work. Sorry, but you're hopeless in that regard.

Dying is a natural process, but not everyone dies from the same thing.

NDEs possibly do occur to everyone as they die. There are two factors that make it tough to know for sure:

1) Most people that get close to death actually do die.

2) Many people who have NDEs have vague memories, if any, about the experience. That was confirmed in the lab.

NDEs aren't exactly the same because of cultural differences. We've already gone over that.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#244 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, you've nailed it - the Bible was written by people who had limited knowledge. I agree. That's why the Bible can NOT be the inerrant Word of God, because if God truly had spoken through the Bible authors then there wouldn't be all that false information!
As for turtle/turtledoves, ask yourself why, if God inspired all the Bible's translations, he inspired the translator of the KJV to use the word "turtle" in Solomon 2:12?
God is nonexistent. That's why the Bible is useless as a source of scientific knowledge.
If that's the itch you have of people claiming the Bible is inerrant, you won't get that position from me. I believe no book on earth is without problems as humans have wrote them.
Concerning the turtle dove question, it's like anything else in the Bible. Anything can be changed at will to mean something else. But people claim it's inspired because so much of it has remained 'uniform' in context over the last 1600 years and for a book based on so many different authors, that's saying something I think.
God is non-existent to you but to to someone else he exists. You say you have your proof he doesn't exist and other people claim they have their proof he exists.
I could take you to a reservation in Montana and have you sit with a bunch of Crow friends of mine and they would tell you hours and hours of personal experiences they have had seeing dead ancestors walking in their homes and such while they were awake. You would call it an illusion of their psychic. They would point and laugh at you for doubting. Who's right? Hmmm?

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

United States

#245 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
It has NOTHING to do with definitions. Mammals don't lay eggs. Birds do.
You'd think that God would have told his ghost writers that bats have live young.
Lumping bats in with birds was absolutely ignorant. The Bible is bunk.
Platypus lays eggs. Other than that your logic is spot on and must drive those fundies nuts. Since they're already nuts......
I wish I could fly. That would be cool.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#246 May 17, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
The Greeks did use zero, as I pointed out earlier. And the Romans knew what zero was but their system of math wasn't additive, as I also pointed out.
All you're doing is avoiding the obvious. NDEs - remember them?- are simply something that happens when the brain shuts down. There is no evidence of an afterlife or even a soul.
If you fail to address this point, which is what this thread is about, then there's no more reason for us to converse. If you want to talk about zero and how the lack of it proves that toasted almonds are preferable to Pop-Tarts then start your own thread!:)
I wasn't avoiding the obvious. If you wish to read a bit more of the zero's history this is a good link to contemplate...
http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/HistTopic...

Concerning NDE's, explain the shrink 101's of the following which have taken place.
Person A travels to place B where they have never been and 'dies' so to speak. While unconscious, person A gets an ambulance ride to a hospital they have never been to. Person A is resuscitated and is brought back to 'life'.
Person A exclaims as soon as talking is possible about a NDE they had and begin to excitedly describe it to hospital personnel and or a friend they had been with.
In their hospital room on a second or third floor where they were taken for recovery, person A begins to recognize certain people of all she sees and tells them where she saw them and what they were doing while she laid clinically dead and then unconscious. She describes other people there. She describes the Ambulance personnel.
And person A saw these people and what they were doing whom they have never met and in a location they have never been to before.
So what part of the mind according to you allows for ESP while in an clinically dead/unconscious state of being?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#247 May 17, 2013
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
As I previously stated, missing evidence isn't proof anything did exist, either. Even if things do exist, it still doesn't prove the stories about them are factual. More research has to be done. IMO, yours is not a valid argument. Try thinking logically instead of simply.
lol...too fricking funny, try using logic? Like you do?
Logic told learned men of old the earth was flat, that we were the center of the stars and planets, that the sun revolved around us, that one species of human existed at a time, that the atom was the smallest particle, that neanderthals knew nothing of painting or drawing or family life, that only Asiatic people came to America via the Bering land bridge, want some more scientific logic?
Again read this and understand this as it's been said for a long, long time.
When you claim something can't or never has existed because their is no evidence for it's existence, you're using 'missing evidence' as a claim for what can't or never has existed. You're not using actual evidence to prove what doesn't exist can't nor never has existed. Understand?

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