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Since: Apr 07

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#340
Dec 28, 2012
 

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victoria1 wrote:
Chicago a large city about the same size as Toronto. Chicago has over 432 murders this year, Toronto 32. The difference? Gun control laws.
Any one who says gun control doesn't work is a fuckingmoron.
Actually, Chicago has 500 murdered by guns, this year. This probably came from the Southside of Chicago. How would laws prevent criminals from obtaining guns? Chicago is a "sancutuary city". That means any criminal can live in Chicago. Many Mexican and Central and South American drug gangs live there. I'm sure you don't have these problems in Canada.

Since: Jun 12

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#341
Dec 28, 2012
 
Sceptical_Mal wrote:
<quoted text>
Australia's tighter gun control measures introduced by the Howard government after the Port Arthur massacre have worked.
Japan's have obviously worked.
America could make a change here - for the better - but it seems the majority of posters support the current laws or even want more guns.
I am completely dumbfounded by the mentality. It is obvious that less guns = less guns related deaths, it's not hard to understand that, I mean ffs how many more thousands have to needlessly die?
Wake up.
Yes, you are dumbfounded, and you stop there.

You just think some laws make the world a La La Land where nothing can go wrong, and don't have the ability to see things as they are in the real world.

There are about 312,782,000 people in America, spread out over 3,794,100 sq miles (9,826,675 sq km). WOW! And there are probably enough guns already out there to arm almost every single person. And it's in our Constitution that we have a right to keep and bear them them. The reason for this is to ensure that we are never invaded by another country, or someone in power trying to set up a dictatorship or the like. Those are VERY good reasons. Which I can appreciate the latter, given the way our government has turned upon us and consider us all in need of suppression.

So it would be impossible to do much about collecting them all and throwing EVERYONE into jail. Can you comprehend the magnitude of such an immense undertaking? Probably not.

Now that's the way it is, and all your emotional whining will not change that. It's a whole different ballgame than on your dinky island.

Since: Apr 07

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#342
Dec 28, 2012
 

“Atheism is the right choice”

Since: Jun 12

Burwood, Australia

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#343
Dec 28, 2012
 
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are dumbfounded, and you stop there.
You just think some laws make the world a La La Land where nothing can go wrong, and don't have the ability to see things as they are in the real world.
There are about 312,782,000 people in America, spread out over 3,794,100 sq miles (9,826,675 sq km). WOW! And there are probably enough guns already out there to arm almost every single person. And it's in our Constitution that we have a right to keep and bear them them. The reason for this is to ensure that we are never invaded by another country, or someone in power trying to set up a dictatorship or the like. Those are VERY good reasons. Which I can appreciate the latter, given the way our government has turned upon us and consider us all in need of suppression.
So it would be impossible to do much about collecting them all and throwing EVERYONE into jail. Can you comprehend the magnitude of such an immense undertaking? Probably not.
Now that's the way it is, and all your emotional whining will not change that. It's a whole different ballgame than on your dinky island.
No need to get nasty. I have simply offered up what has worked for us could work for you.

So you have almost more guns than people? Is that a good thing? We don't have a complete ban on guns, don't get me wrong, just a restriction on the type of firearms. No semi autos, no pump action shot guns. The amnesty was in place for a fair amount of time to allow unregistered firearms to be handed in and also a buy back scheme for the now prohibited firearms.

The reduction in firearms has reduced the firearm related homicide and suicide rate by 50 percent. This also includes domestic situations where access to a firearm is no longer readily available.

Surely anyone can see that reducing the amount of firearms, especially semi autos with high capacity magazines can only have a positive impact?

“so tell me......”

Since: Aug 08

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#344
Dec 29, 2012
 

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par five wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if being concerned about children being needlessly killed by guns kept in the home is being emotional, then call me emotional. What amazes me is that the gun lobby does not appear to believe that America has a gun problem. Why is the death rate by guns so much lower in other similarly developed countries where strict gun laws are enforced? Maybe you think your country doesn't have a gun problem, or if you do, maybe you think the answer is more guns which would be like trying to cure an alcoholic by feeding him more booze. Does America, which is supposed to be the most developed country in the world, not look at the deaths of its own citizens caused by guns each and every year and be appalled? If not, why not?
www.washingtonpost.com/.../chart-the-u-s-has-... -...
www.washingtonpost.com/.../chart-the-u-s-has-... -...
Well said.

“Think for Yourself”

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

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#345
Dec 29, 2012
 

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-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you a moron or what?
You totally avoided my main point and tried to obfuscate the issue.
First off America has way more people than most other countries. So more people = more deaths. I'll bet the same applies that America has more car deaths, boating deaths, electrical shock deaths, etc., only because we have more people.
Second, AGAIN, there are already laws, very harsh laws, against killing other people.
There are gun laws already in effect.
None of which a criminal gives a damn about!!
Even if all kinds of harsh gun laws were passed making it impossible for anyone to get guns, the stabbing, hammering, baseball batting, poisoning, hit and runs, etc, deaths would go up. Maybe even INCREASE overall since people were unable to protect themselves with guns.
Geez...
How many ways do I have to say that before it sinks in??!!
Grow up and face the real world, laws only give people the false sense of security. As the courts and prisons are full of people all over the world who don't give a damn about laws, and many more who don't get caught. And many people carelessly get themselves into mugging, beatings, or even deadly situations because they foolishly think ALL people will abide by some law or another. Until, SURPIRSE, they meet one of the many, many, people who don't give a sh*t about laws, then BLAM, lights out!
So America has a larger population than most other countries, so what? Does that then make all the gun related deaths they have just fine and dandy, no problem? I am dodging nothing, but what you are dodging is that in countries where access to weapons is much more difficult, there is not the same high number of gun related deaths as there is in America. You sound rather paranoid. Why is it do you think, that the vast majority of people in the UK do not own nor want to own a weapon for self defense?
As for your first question, no I'm not a moron, but as for you?????????
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

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#346
Dec 29, 2012
 
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
From the one who brought up an emotional issue like a childhood accident, that has nothing to do with criminals going on these shooting sprees, that sounds like desperation to me.
There are laws against killing his mother, did that stop him?
There are laws against stealing her guns, did that stop him?
There are laws requiring him to have a background check before acquiring guns and other criteria, that he bypassed.
There were probably laws against having loaded weapons in a vehilce, did that stop him?
There are laws against having guns out in public, did he obey them?
There were laws against killing each and every one of his victims, yet he tried to kill as many as he could.
And I'm sure he ignored many other laws in the process.
So get real, one or two more laws would NOT have prevented this.
Little bit of disingenuous-ness here...

Are you suggesting we scrap all laws? I think the answer is no.

As you know, the laws/rules create structure, and we humans are a structure loving species, like all others. But we apply a structure to situations where there tends not to be any so to gain a fair amount of control of outcomes. Like traffic laws. People disobey them all the time, and accidents occur - but few people ignore them all and drive on a path of their own choosing in direct conflict with the established traffic routes. And when situations change along those routes, very often so do the laws. Where once a right on red was not allowed now it is...etc...

So while adding a new gun access law, on top of the old ones, might not seem appropriate - if it closes a glaring loophole that provides access to anyone at any time to have greater access to a military style armament...why not?

Personally, I truly hope there is no rush to pass legislation - but rather a rush to have the serious discussions about the gun laws, and the culture that equates free access (not necessarily owning one) to guns of all types as the heart of what Freedom means.

There are a lot of things we restrict access to - be they something like uranium, or certain types of construction equipment, or Rx drugs, etc, etc - and no one screams their freedoms are being curtailed. There might be a few who do, but we dismiss them as people on the fringe of rationality as no one needs access to Uranium, etc...unless they can provide good cause, like a laboratory.

There are two, maybe three lines of arguments that always get mashed up when it comes to the gun debates. 1. product access. 2. ownership. 3. actual need.

They are not equal, IMO, and they all need to be discussed individually and eventually together at some point...but not right out of the box. Basic Ownership should be protected IMO,...but the other two require some rational discussions and should not be made equal.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

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#347
Dec 29, 2012
 
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, Chicago has 500 murdered by guns, this year. This probably came from the Southside of Chicago. How would laws prevent criminals from obtaining guns? Chicago is a "sancutuary city". That means any criminal can live in Chicago. Many Mexican and Central and South American drug gangs live there. I'm sure you don't have these problems in Canada.
without me looking it up, what do you mean by "Chicago is a 'sanctuary city'"..? Do you mean they are immune to prosecution?

Since: Aug 12

Saint Louis, MO

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#348
Jan 1, 2013
 

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I assume it means they know it has been made safe to "work" in. The laws mean no law abider will be carrying so stay away from pretty uniforms and you're safe.
Derp

Burwood, Australia

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#349
Jan 1, 2013
 
"How about America look at what some other countries have done in restricting the type of weapons allowed to be purchased, restricting who can own a gun and removing as many prohibited and unregistered firearms from society"

"Oh no, you can't take all of our guns away from us, it's our right, it's in the constitution"

"Listen, I'm not saying take all your guns away, there is no need for high capacity semi automatic weapons, pump action shotguns or handguns. Sporting shooters, law enforcers, farmers and anyone with a valid reason will still be able to keep or purchase guns."

"No way are they going to take our guns away from us, how will we defend ourselves if we are invaded?"

"You're not listening, I said we won't take all your guns, many people will still be able to own firearms"

"If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

"sigh"

Since: Aug 12

Hurst, IL

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#350
Jan 1, 2013
 
You're right there is know no need for guns, genocide has been committed with knives [machettes] ; Why, no guns!
Mass murder is committed in counties all around the world but that's okay; no guns!
If it's not done with a gun it doesn't count as gun violence, why no guns!
Nothing else important, only guns!

They all may have all died, but at least it was without the taint of the Evil Magic Death Wands.
Derp

Burwood, Australia

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#351
Jan 1, 2013
 
Guns just make it a whole lot quicker and easier.

“Think for Yourself”

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

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#352
Jan 2, 2013
 

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Drake_Burrwood wrote:
You're right there is know no need for guns, genocide has been committed with knives [machettes] ; Why, no guns!
Mass murder is committed in counties all around the world but that's okay; no guns!
If it's not done with a gun it doesn't count as gun violence, why no guns!
Nothing else important, only guns!
They all may have all died, but at least it was without the taint of the Evil Magic Death Wands.
You can deflect all you like by pointing to other countries, but we are talking about America, one of the richest and most powerful developed countries in the world. Just answer me one simple question. When you look at the deaths caused by guns in America, do you or do you not think that there is a problem? Now I know that there are many other things that kill people, but we are talking specifically about guns here. So do you, or do you not think that there is a problem?

Since: Aug 12

Hurst, IL

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#353
Jan 2, 2013
 

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par five wrote:
<quoted text>
You can deflect all you like by pointing to other countries, but we are talking about America, one of the richest and most powerful developed countries in the world. Just answer me one simple question. When you look at the deaths caused by guns in America, do you or do you not think that there is a problem? Now I know that there are many other things that kill people, but we are talking specifically about guns here. So do you, or do you not think that there is a problem?
Is there a problem, Yes. Predators. Is there a problem specific to America. YES, Predators. Gun ownership doesn't kill. Lack of training, kills by accident, Many things kill by accident.
Predators; intend to cause harm, and do.
Predators; have the time to plan, not defenders.
Predators; use what they have and what they know.
Predators; kill, and for some reason America has a higher percent of predators then countries with similar gun levels. Think about that.
--Its not assault rifles, remember how many shots a piece it took to "finish" each child it took the intent to do so. Was it sick yes. But it wasn't a sick gun but a sick mind.
--A sick mind that started with his mother, possibly so he could get the rest of the guns.

“Think for Yourself”

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

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#354
Jan 5, 2013
 
Drake_Burrwood wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there a problem, Yes. Predators. Is there a problem specific to America. YES, Predators. Gun ownership doesn't kill. Lack of training, kills by accident, Many things kill by accident.
Predators; intend to cause harm, and do.
Predators; have the time to plan, not defenders.
Predators; use what they have and what they know.
Predators; kill, and for some reason America has a higher percent of predators then countries with similar gun levels. Think about that.
--Its not assault rifles, remember how many shots a piece it took to "finish" each child it took the intent to do so. Was it sick yes. But it wasn't a sick gun but a sick mind.
--A sick mind that started with his mother, possibly so he could get the rest of the guns.
Not even over the first week of the new year and already four people shot dead in Colorado.

Since: Aug 12

Barnhart, MO

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#355
Jan 6, 2013
 
It questions are were they unarmed, was it in self defense, were the weapons legal, and does this include all homicides or only the Evil ones condemned by the 'great god Gunkontrol'.

Since: Aug 12

Barnhart, MO

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#356
Jan 6, 2013
 
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
Not even over the first week of the new year and already four people shot dead in Colorado.
I don't disagree there is a problem, unfortunately the whole discussion underlines for Predators just how weak their prey is. Even if it isn't true.

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