America's gun obsession.

“so tell me......”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#321 Dec 28, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
US snow storm claims more lives
Fifteen people are reported killed by a severe snow storm now moving into NE US states after disrupting Christmas in the Midwest.
**********
So does anyone think more gun laws would have prevented this snowstorm from killing these 15 people?
What a silly comparison.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#322 Dec 28, 2012
Well it does come from the person that pilloried me for running the numbers on Chernobyl and saying that Fukushima would kill far less.

Perspective, perspective...
angelinaUK wrote:
<quoted text>What a silly comparison.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#323 Dec 28, 2012
angelinaUK wrote:
<quoted text>What a silly comparison.
Not really.

Criminals and psychos don't care about any laws, so MORE laws are meaningless. They are no different than any force of nature like snowstorms. Our laws will have NO EFFECT upon their evil behavior.

Face it, people kill other people every day. And break all kinds of laws in doing so. Why? Glad you asked! BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABUT LAWS. NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. LAWS WILL >>NOT<< STOP THEM. SO LAWS ARE JUST AS INEFFECTIVE IN STOPPING PEOPLE FROM KILLING OTHERS, AS LAWS MADE TO STOP SNOWSTORMS FROM KILLING PEOPLE.

“so tell me......”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#324 Dec 28, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really.
Criminals and psychos don't care about any laws, so MORE laws are meaningless. They are no different than any force of nature like snowstorms. Our laws will have NO EFFECT upon their evil behavior.
Face it, people kill other people every day. And break all kinds of laws in doing so. Why? Glad you asked! BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABUT LAWS. NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. LAWS WILL >>NOT<< STOP THEM. SO LAWS ARE JUST AS INEFFECTIVE IN STOPPING PEOPLE FROM KILLING OTHERS, AS LAWS MADE TO STOP SNOWSTORMS FROM KILLING PEOPLE.
I suppose there is some logic in there somewhere but to be honest it escapes me. To compare a tragedy caused by nature to one that is a deliberate human act of evil makes no sense to me.

Since: Aug 12

United States

#325 Dec 28, 2012
It is a comparison of the effect of laws on the lawless and the attempt to command the storm the same way.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#326 Dec 28, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really.
Criminals and psychos don't care about any laws, so MORE laws are meaningless. They are no different than any force of nature like snowstorms. Our laws will have NO EFFECT upon their evil behavior.
Face it, people kill other people every day. And break all kinds of laws in doing so. Why? Glad you asked! BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABUT LAWS. NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. LAWS WILL >>NOT<< STOP THEM. SO LAWS ARE JUST AS INEFFECTIVE IN STOPPING PEOPLE FROM KILLING OTHERS, AS LAWS MADE TO STOP SNOWSTORMS FROM KILLING PEOPLE.
You sound like an addict who is afraid that the thing that satisfies his addiction is going to be taken away from him. It's not just about the psychos, it's also about 10 year old Alfreddie Gipson, killed by his 12 year old brother and 2 year old Neegnco Xiong, killed by his 4 year old brother. The children were playing with loaded weapons kept at their homes. I doubt if the parents are psychos, but they sure are irresponsible in the extreme to leave loaded weapons where children can get hold of them and I agree with angelina, your comparison is silly.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#327 Dec 28, 2012
Drake_Burrwood wrote:
It is a comparison of the effect of laws on the lawless and the attempt to command the storm the same way.
No it's a silly comparison, nobody makes laws to prohibit storms from killing people. Coming out with silly comparisons like that and you supporting it, sounds like desperation to me.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#328 Dec 28, 2012
angelinaUK wrote:
<quoted text>I suppose there is some logic in there somewhere but to be honest it escapes me. To compare a tragedy caused by nature to one that is a deliberate human act of evil makes no sense to me.
That's because you are stupid.

It is in the nature of many people to kill, just like any predatory animal. People have been killing each other ever since people came into being, and they will be killing each other long after both of us are gone. And no amount of stupid laws have, or will, ever stop them. It's as impossible to stop them as it is to stop a snowstorm from killing people.

Not my problem if you are too stupid to see that.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#329 Dec 28, 2012
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound like an addict who is afraid that the thing that satisfies his addiction is going to be taken away from him. It's not just about the psychos, it's also about 10 year old Alfreddie Gipson, killed by his 12 year old brother and 2 year old Neegnco Xiong, killed by his 4 year old brother. The children were playing with loaded weapons kept at their homes. I doubt if the parents are psychos, but they sure are irresponsible in the extreme to leave loaded weapons where children can get hold of them and I agree with angelina, your comparison is silly.
Ha, YOU bring up an ACCIDENT to make the issue purely emotional, and then you call my comparison silly, pot meets kettle.

You just cannot face the fact that laws do not, can not, protect everybody from everything. Because only a few people abide by them, the rest don't.

Taking someone else's life already carries the biggest penalty, and this wacko killed his mother, stole her guns, and went on a killing spree. Ignoring many laws already in place. So more laws would NOT have made any difference. It's STUPID to think otherwise.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#330 Dec 28, 2012
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
No it's a silly comparison, nobody makes laws to prohibit storms from killing people. Coming out with silly comparisons like that and you supporting it, sounds like desperation to me.
From the one who brought up an emotional issue like a childhood accident, that has nothing to do with criminals going on these shooting sprees, that sounds like desperation to me.

There are laws against killing his mother, did that stop him?

There are laws against stealing her guns, did that stop him?

There are laws requiring him to have a background check before acquiring guns and other criteria, that he bypassed.

There were probably laws against having loaded weapons in a vehilce, did that stop him?

There are laws against having guns out in public, did he obey them?

There were laws against killing each and every one of his victims, yet he tried to kill as many as he could.

And I'm sure he ignored many other laws in the process.

So get real, one or two more laws would NOT have prevented this.

“The Topix Legend of "GS8"!”

Since: Sep 10

Manalapan, FL

#331 Dec 28, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
From the one who brought up an emotional issue like a childhood accident, that has nothing to do with criminals going on these shooting sprees, that sounds like desperation to me.
There are laws against killing his mother, did that stop him?
There are laws against stealing her guns, did that stop him?
There are laws requiring him to have a background check before acquiring guns and other criteria, that he bypassed.
There were probably laws against having loaded weapons in a vehilce, did that stop him?
There are laws against having guns out in public, did he obey them?
There were laws against killing each and every one of his victims, yet he tried to kill as many as he could.
And I'm sure he ignored many other laws in the process.
So get real, one or two more laws would NOT have prevented this.
I agree with you Star.

“The Topix Legend of "GS8"!”

Since: Sep 10

Manalapan, FL

#332 Dec 28, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really.
Criminals and psychos don't care about any laws, so MORE laws are meaningless. They are no different than any force of nature like snowstorms. Our laws will have NO EFFECT upon their evil behavior.
Face it, people kill other people every day. And break all kinds of laws in doing so. Why? Glad you asked! BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABUT LAWS. NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL. LAWS WILL >>NOT<< STOP THEM. SO LAWS ARE JUST AS INEFFECTIVE IN STOPPING PEOPLE FROM KILLING OTHERS, AS LAWS MADE TO STOP SNOWSTORMS FROM KILLING PEOPLE.
I agree with this too Star

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#333 Dec 28, 2012
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha, YOU bring up an ACCIDENT to make the issue purely emotional, and then you call my comparison silly, pot meets kettle.
You just cannot face the fact that laws do not, can not, protect everybody from everything. Because only a few people abide by them, the rest don't.
Taking someone else's life already carries the biggest penalty, and this wacko killed his mother, stole her guns, and went on a killing spree. Ignoring many laws already in place. So more laws would NOT have made any difference. It's STUPID to think otherwise.
Well, if being concerned about children being needlessly killed by guns kept in the home is being emotional, then call me emotional. What amazes me is that the gun lobby does not appear to believe that America has a gun problem. Why is the death rate by guns so much lower in other similarly developed countries where strict gun laws are enforced? Maybe you think your country doesn't have a gun problem, or if you do, maybe you think the answer is more guns which would be like trying to cure an alcoholic by feeding him more booze. Does America, which is supposed to be the most developed country in the world, not look at the deaths of its own citizens caused by guns each and every year and be appalled? If not, why not?
www.washingtonpost.com/.../chart-the-u-s-has-... -...
www.washingtonpost.com/.../chart-the-u-s-has-... -...

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#334 Dec 28, 2012
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound like an addict who is afraid that the thing that satisfies his addiction is going to be taken away from him. It's not just about the psychos, it's also about 10 year old Alfreddie Gipson, killed by his 12 year old brother and 2 year old Neegnco Xiong, killed by his 4 year old brother. The children were playing with loaded weapons kept at their homes. I doubt if the parents are psychos, but they sure are irresponsible in the extreme to leave loaded weapons where children can get hold of them and I agree with angelina, your comparison is silly.
The Neegnco Xiong story is especially sad...now they are charging the father with second degree murder along with 2 other charges...apparently he had 7 handguns scattered all over his residence... talk about paranoia...

I live about an hour from there and couldn't think why all the armor? Hell, south Chicago maybe warrants it...

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#335 Dec 28, 2012
Thanks for the icons, but what about addressing the gun problem in America? An article in the Washington Post looked at Japan which has one of the tightest gun control laws in the world and also an extremely low rate of gun related deaths. It goes on to say that in 2008 while America had 12,000 gun related homicides and 587 deaths due to accidental discharge, Japan had a total of 11 gun related deaths for that year. The following quote from the same article I believe shows where America's problem lies.
"Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that “No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords,” later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it."
Japan has a population of over 128 million, go ahead and tell me their gun laws don't work!

Sceptical_Mal

“Born again atheist”

Since: Jun 12

Melbourne

#336 Dec 28, 2012
par five wrote:
Thanks for the icons, but what about addressing the gun problem in America? An article in the Washington Post looked at Japan which has one of the tightest gun control laws in the world and also an extremely low rate of gun related deaths. It goes on to say that in 2008 while America had 12,000 gun related homicides and 587 deaths due to accidental discharge, Japan had a total of 11 gun related deaths for that year. The following quote from the same article I believe shows where America's problem lies.
"Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that “No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords,” later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it."
Japan has a population of over 128 million, go ahead and tell me their gun laws don't work!
Australia's tighter gun control measures introduced by the Howard government after the Port Arthur massacre have worked.

Japan's have obviously worked.

America could make a change here - for the better - but it seems the majority of posters support the current laws or even want more guns.

I am completely dumbfounded by the mentality. It is obvious that less guns = less guns related deaths, it's not hard to understand that, I mean ffs how many more thousands have to needlessly die?

Wake up.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#337 Dec 28, 2012
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if being concerned about children being needlessly killed by guns kept in the home is being emotional, then call me emotional. What amazes me is that the gun lobby does not appear to believe that America has a gun problem. Why is the death rate by guns so much lower in other similarly developed countries where strict gun laws are enforced? Maybe you think your country doesn't have a gun problem, or if you do, maybe you think the answer is more guns which would be like trying to cure an alcoholic by feeding him more booze. Does America, which is supposed to be the most developed country in the world, not look at the deaths of its own citizens caused by guns each and every year and be appalled? If not, why not?
www.washingtonpost.com/.../chart-the-u-s-has-... -...
www.washingtonpost.com/.../chart-the-u-s-has-... -...
Are you a moron or what?

You totally avoided my main point and tried to obfuscate the issue.

First off America has way more people than most other countries. So more people = more deaths. I'll bet the same applies that America has more car deaths, boating deaths, electrical shock deaths, etc., only because we have more people.

Second, AGAIN, there are already laws, very harsh laws, against killing other people.

There are gun laws already in effect.

None of which a criminal gives a damn about!!

Even if all kinds of harsh gun laws were passed making it impossible for anyone to get guns, the stabbing, hammering, baseball batting, poisoning, hit and runs, etc, deaths would go up. Maybe even INCREASE overall since people were unable to protect themselves with guns.

Geez...

How many ways do I have to say that before it sinks in??!!

Grow up and face the real world, laws only give people the false sense of security. As the courts and prisons are full of people all over the world who don't give a damn about laws, and many more who don't get caught. And many people carelessly get themselves into mugging, beatings, or even deadly situations because they foolishly think ALL people will abide by some law or another. Until, SURPIRSE, they meet one of the many, many, people who don't give a sh*t about laws, then BLAM, lights out!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#339 Dec 28, 2012
par five wrote:
Thanks for the icons, but what about addressing the gun problem in America? An article in the Washington Post looked at Japan which has one of the tightest gun control laws in the world and also an extremely low rate of gun related deaths. It goes on to say that in 2008 while America had 12,000 gun related homicides and 587 deaths due to accidental discharge, Japan had a total of 11 gun related deaths for that year. The following quote from the same article I believe shows where America's problem lies.
"Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that “No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords,” later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it."
Japan has a population of over 128 million, go ahead and tell me their gun laws don't work!
What kind of idiot are you?

How can you compare a country that is so densely populated there is no need to have hunting firearms. And a government so suppressive that it makes sure it's citizens have no weapons to fight back and overthrow the suppressive bastards? Get a clue. Gun laws in Japan have little to do with preventing gun deaths, it's all about suppression and control. That's like saying "See, prisons have laws against ANY gun, and there are no gun related deaths there. So everybody should be put in prison where it's safe."

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#340 Dec 28, 2012
victoria1 wrote:
Chicago a large city about the same size as Toronto. Chicago has over 432 murders this year, Toronto 32. The difference? Gun control laws.
Any one who says gun control doesn't work is a fuckingmoron.
Actually, Chicago has 500 murdered by guns, this year. This probably came from the Southside of Chicago. How would laws prevent criminals from obtaining guns? Chicago is a "sancutuary city". That means any criminal can live in Chicago. Many Mexican and Central and South American drug gangs live there. I'm sure you don't have these problems in Canada.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#341 Dec 28, 2012
Sceptical_Mal wrote:
<quoted text>
Australia's tighter gun control measures introduced by the Howard government after the Port Arthur massacre have worked.
Japan's have obviously worked.
America could make a change here - for the better - but it seems the majority of posters support the current laws or even want more guns.
I am completely dumbfounded by the mentality. It is obvious that less guns = less guns related deaths, it's not hard to understand that, I mean ffs how many more thousands have to needlessly die?
Wake up.
Yes, you are dumbfounded, and you stop there.

You just think some laws make the world a La La Land where nothing can go wrong, and don't have the ability to see things as they are in the real world.

There are about 312,782,000 people in America, spread out over 3,794,100 sq miles (9,826,675 sq km). WOW! And there are probably enough guns already out there to arm almost every single person. And it's in our Constitution that we have a right to keep and bear them them. The reason for this is to ensure that we are never invaded by another country, or someone in power trying to set up a dictatorship or the like. Those are VERY good reasons. Which I can appreciate the latter, given the way our government has turned upon us and consider us all in need of suppression.

So it would be impossible to do much about collecting them all and throwing EVERYONE into jail. Can you comprehend the magnitude of such an immense undertaking? Probably not.

Now that's the way it is, and all your emotional whining will not change that. It's a whole different ballgame than on your dinky island.

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