Are Baptists Christians

Are Baptists Christians

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Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#1 Dec 15, 2011
Most of them don't act like it.

Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#2 Dec 15, 2011
Money grubbing preachers and Sunday morning Christians.
anticomment

Akron, OH

#3 Dec 15, 2011
No
comment

Rogersville, MO

#4 Dec 15, 2011
It seems to me that there are three types of individuals that are associated with any denomination: those who understand and follow their religion's teachings, those who do not follow those teachings, and those who dont really know what the teachings are.
My understanding is that Baptists believe the following: 1, Jesus is both God and man, 2, Jesus rose from the dead physically 3, Salvation is by grace through faith alone 4, the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus 5, There is only one God 6, God exists as a Trinity of persons. Biblically, this seems to fulfill the concepts associated with Christianity, so I would conclude that the Baptist religion is Christian.
As regards the inevitable discussion that will occur regarding freewill/predestination, I see that difference of opinion as regarding the methodology of fulfilling the above tenets, and not a difference in the tenets themselves.

Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#5 Dec 15, 2011
comment wrote:
It seems to me that there are three types of individuals that are associated with any denomination: those who understand and follow their religion's teachings, those who do not follow those teachings, and those who dont really know what the teachings are.
My understanding is that Baptists believe the following: 1, Jesus is both God and man, 2, Jesus rose from the dead physically 3, Salvation is by grace through faith alone 4, the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus 5, There is only one God 6, God exists as a Trinity of persons. Biblically, this seems to fulfill the concepts associated with Christianity, so I would conclude that the Baptist religion is Christian.
As regards the inevitable discussion that will occur regarding freewill/predestination, I see that difference of opinion as regarding the methodology of fulfilling the above tenets, and not a difference in the tenets themselves.
How many Baptists do you know that believes that? My understanding of the Baptist religion is the members can pronounce themselves saved - I got saved" and then commit any sin that they want and call it "backsliding" but they are still saved no matter what they do. It is akin to the old Catholic belief that if you felt a sin coming on you could get forgiveness ahead of time and sin in the comfort of knowing that is was ok. They don't believe in judgment day because they are already saved.

As far as Jesus being God, it would require him talking to himself, sending himself, praying to himself, bragging on himself, etc., etc. The fact is that no Christian does or can understand the concept of the trinity. Messiah means messenger. The meaning has been corrupted.

Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#6 Dec 15, 2011
"Once saved, always saved" eliminates any need for God.

“so tell me......”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#7 Dec 15, 2011
Some are and some aren't I would expect. Just like any other denomination.
comment

Rogersville, MO

#8 Dec 15, 2011
I dont subscribe to the "TULIP" doctrine myself, and I am not a baptist, but I would stand by my comments, about Baptist beliefs, until a Baptist shows me any deficiency in my understanding of their doctrine.

I have already stated that there are those Baptists (and for that matter, men in any religion) that abuse the tenets of the faith, Paul said that the freedom of Christ is not license to sin. I don't believe you can honestly condemn the religious doctrine, for the deeds of those who are in practice, acting contrary to those beliefs. You can attempt such, but I feel your arguement is invalid.

All men are sinners, citing men's deeds as evidence as to the insufficiency of their professed religion, is just the opposite of
the blessing of religion. We are in fact all guilty and all condemned except for the gift of Grace which redeems those who believe. Were God to be fair and without mercy would condemn every individual, without exception, to the consequences of their actions.

I wont comment on your disbelief of the Baptist doctrine, it isn't pertinent to the discussion and I am not concerned with your viewpoint. Your interpretation of Baptist doctrine however, is far afield from what Baptists, and myself, believe.
In a nutshell, we believe that Christ redeemed us from all our sins, past, present, and future, So unlike Catholicism, it is not a works-based, pay as you go, concept at all.

Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#9 Dec 15, 2011
"Once saved, always saved" is the cornerstone of their religion. They eliminate the need for a judgment day.

Imagine someone going into court and telling the judge he doesn't need to judge you. You have already judged yourself innocent. Then tell Him to go ahead and judge these sinners. Try to leave and see what happens.
comment

Rogersville, MO

#10 Dec 15, 2011
Shadow Black wrote:
"Once saved, always saved" is the cornerstone of their religion. They eliminate the need for a judgment day.
Imagine someone going into court and telling the judge he doesn't need to judge you. You have already judged yourself innocent. Then tell Him to go ahead and judge these sinners. Try to leave and see what happens.
You are using man's logic, your example is faulty:
first of all, no believer will be judged regarding their guilt or innocence, that is resolved at the time of their justification (salvation) There is a judgement seat of Christ for believers, but that is for reward only, no condemnation is involved. With reference to sin, Scripture teaches that the child of God under grace shall not come into judgment (John 3:18; 5:24; 6:37; Rom. 5:1; 8:1; 1 Cor. 11:32); in his standing before God, and on the ground that the penalty for all sin—past, present, and future (Col. 2:13)—has been borne by Christ as the perfect Substitute, the believer is not only placed beyond condemnation, but being in Christ is accepted in the perfection of Christ (1 Cor. 1:30; Eph. 1:6; Col. 2:10; Heb. 10:14) and loved of God as Christ is loved (John 17:23).3

I cant debate the Baptist position on OSAS, as I am not a baptist.
But I dont believe (as I said in my first post) that such a belief either negates or supports the Christian ideals I stated, OSAS is a non critical determination by the denomination as regards their arrival at salvation, not the process thereof. IMO.

My beliefs in freewill/predestination are different from mainline Christianity, so they bear no weight in this discussion, suffice to say that I believe that freewill and predestination are scripturally reconcilable and that both exist. Now, you may not agree, but that is your entitlement.

Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#11 Dec 15, 2011
comment wrote:
I dont subscribe to the "TULIP" doctrine myself, and I am not a baptist, but I would stand by my comments, about Baptist beliefs, until a Baptist shows me any deficiency in my understanding of their doctrine.
I have already stated that there are those Baptists (and for that matter, men in any religion) that abuse the tenets of the faith, Paul said that the freedom of Christ is not license to sin. I don't believe you can honestly condemn the religious doctrine, for the deeds of those who are in practice, acting contrary to those beliefs. You can attempt such, but I feel your arguement is invalid.
All men are sinners, citing men's deeds as evidence as to the insufficiency of their professed religion, is just the opposite of
the blessing of religion. We are in fact all guilty and all condemned except for the gift of Grace which redeems those who believe. Were God to be fair and without mercy would condemn every individual, without exception, to the consequences of their actions.
I wont comment on your disbelief of the Baptist doctrine, it isn't pertinent to the discussion and I am not concerned with your viewpoint. Your interpretation of Baptist doctrine however, is far afield from what Baptists, and myself, believe.
In a nutshell, we believe that Christ redeemed us from all our sins, past, present, and future, So unlike Catholicism, it is not a works-based, pay as you go, concept at all.
Of course, everything I say is pertinent to the discussion. You just don't like it.
You can go to a Baptist Church and watch people stumbling down the isle, bumping into benches, with tears in their eyes getting saved.
If you go more than once you will notice it is usually the same ones every Sunday. Makes you wonder if they are repenting of the same sins they obviously keep repeating.
I have seen the preachers pass the plate two or three times because the offerings have not been enough to satisfy their greed.
I have seen widows scraping together their coins to give to the preacher while doing without themselves. They are usually afoot while the preacher drives the best car in the congregation.
I have seen the preachers constantly tell their members to give 10 percent of their income in tithes while the Bible clearly says only give 10 percent of the increase from the previous year. They get mad when you point this out in the Bible.
The members jealously watch what their neighbor puts in the collection plate. If you don't put what they think is enough, they will reproach you. It is a profession. Don't pay the preacher enough, you will get no preaching. They are no better than prostitutes. Pay your money and get their services.
comment

Rogersville, MO

#12 Dec 15, 2011
Shadow Black wrote:
<quoted text>Of course, everything I say is pertinent to the discussion. You just don't like it.
You can go to a Baptist Church and watch people stumbling down the isle, bumping into benches, with tears in their eyes getting saved.
If you go more than once you will notice it is usually the same ones every Sunday. Makes you wonder if they are repenting of the same sins they obviously keep repeating.
I have seen the preachers pass the plate two or three times because the offerings have not been enough to satisfy their greed.
I have seen widows scraping together their coins to give to the preacher while doing without themselves. They are usually afoot while the preacher drives the best car in the congregation.
I have seen the preachers constantly tell their members to give 10 percent of their income in tithes while the Bible clearly says only give 10 percent of the increase from the previous year. They get mad when you point this out in the Bible.
The members jealously watch what their neighbor puts in the collection plate. If you don't put what they think is enough, they will reproach you. It is a profession. Don't pay the preacher enough, you will get no preaching. They are no better than prostitutes. Pay your money and get their services.
None of this is germain to the topic of the post, and your opinion about their behavior is inconsequential, for the reasons I cited in my first entry. I wont go down a rathole with you, cite a Baptist doctrine that is anti-Christian, and we can discuss further.

Since: Jul 09

pharr, tx.

#13 Dec 15, 2011
comment wrote:
<quoted text>
You are using man's logic, your example is faulty:
first of all, no believer will be judged regarding their guilt or innocence, that is resolved at the time of their justification (salvation) There is a judgement seat of Christ for believers, but that is for reward only, no condemnation is involved. With reference to sin, Scripture teaches that the child of God under grace shall not come into judgment (John 3:18; 5:24; 6:37; Rom. 5:1; 8:1; 1 Cor. 11:32); in his standing before God, and on the ground that the penalty for all sin—past, present, and future (Col. 2:13)—has been borne by Christ as the perfect Substitute, the believer is not only placed beyond condemnation, but being in Christ is accepted in the perfection of Christ (1 Cor. 1:30; Eph. 1:6; Col. 2:10; Heb. 10:14) and loved of God as Christ is loved (John 17:23).3
I cant debate the Baptist position on OSAS, as I am not a baptist.
But I dont believe (as I said in my first post) that such a belief either negates or supports the Christian ideals I stated, OSAS is a non critical determination by the denomination as regards their arrival at salvation, not the process thereof. IMO.
My beliefs in freewill/predestination are different from mainline Christianity, so they bear no weight in this discussion, suffice to say that I believe that freewill and predestination are scripturally reconcilable and that both exist. Now, you may not agree, but that is your entitlement.
I don't believe you ever read the Bible. You are actually saying that it doesn't matter if you sin because Christ has already paid the price. You are woefully ignorant of the Bible.

“Legen...wait for it...DARY!”

Since: Dec 11

New York City

#14 Dec 15, 2011
No. Baptists are not true scotsman.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#15 Dec 15, 2011
Shadow Black wrote:
<quoted text>
......
I have seen the preachers constantly tell their members to give 10 percent of their income in tithes while the Bible clearly says only give 10 percent of the increase from the previous year. They get mad when you point this out in the Bible.
......
Show me the math.
comment

Rogersville, MO

#16 Dec 15, 2011
Shadow Black wrote:
<quoted text>I don't believe you ever read the Bible. You are actually saying that it doesn't matter if you sin because Christ has already paid the price. You are woefully ignorant of the Bible.
Nope didn't say any such thing. You keep relying on your feelings rather that supporting your claims. Since our discussion is scriptural doctrine, and since I am citing scripture in it's support, I would expect you to respond with some verse to dispute the citations. I dont think a personal attack on my lack of knowledge is acceptable refutation of my comments, without something other than conjecture.

But, nevertheless, back to your latest comment.

in fact I'll cite some scripture for you, starting at Romans 5:21, because Paul addressed this very issue. Paul says that tne man reborn from God will not sin because his new nature will not support a desire to sin. All men are tempted throuhout their life, and Christ's sacrifice redeemed us if we do sin, but the saved man will not seek sin out, or accomodate its presence.

"Just as sin reigned in death(unbelief), so also grace might reign throuh righteousness (salvation) to bring eternal lift through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say, then? Shell we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" Rom 5:21

"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under Grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? By no means!" Rom 6:14-15

Eternal security is not a license to sin. Rather, it is the security of knowing that God's love is guaranteed for those who trust in Christ. Knowing and understanding God's tremendous gift of salvation accomplishes the opposite of giving a license to sin.
No believer, knowing the price Jesus Christ paid for us, can go on to live a life of sin (Romans 6:15-23)

No believer, who understands God's unconditional and guaranteed love for those who believe, would take that love and throw it back in God's face. Such a person would be demonstrating, not that eternal security has given him a license to sin, but rather that he or she has not truly experienced salvation through Jesus Christ. "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him" (1 John 3:6).

So I restate the opinion that believers are not judged on their deeds, except toward reward, and not for the purpose of judgement. I would also add, that except for a consious rejection of Christ and his sacrifice, that no believer can lose his salvation from any external incident or situation. John 10:28
Yesu Kristo Mwokozi wangu

Shelby, OH

#17 Dec 15, 2011
comment wrote:
It seems to me that there are three types of individuals that are associated with any denomination: those who understand and follow their religion's teachings, those who do not follow those teachings, and those who dont really know what the teachings are.
My understanding is that Baptists believe the following: 1, Jesus is both God and man, 2, Jesus rose from the dead physically 3, Salvation is by grace through faith alone 4, the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus 5, There is only one God 6, God exists as a Trinity of persons. Biblically, this seems to fulfill the concepts associated with Christianity, so I would conclude that the Baptist religion is Christian.
As regards the inevitable discussion that will occur regarding freewill/predestination, I see that difference of opinion as regarding the methodology of fulfilling the above tenets, and not a difference in the tenets themselves.
You've accurately described the beliefs of ALL evangelical Christians... that is born again true Christians. According to Christ, one is not a Christian until he is born again. See Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus in John chapter 3.

As far as rather Baptists are Christian or not, the banner over the building is immaterial. What matters is what happens in the heart of an individual. Jesus clearly spoke, "You must be born again." However the Baptists are a Christian denomination, but they are not a religion and neither is Christianity a religion.
Yesu Kristo Mwokozi wangu

Shelby, OH

#18 Dec 15, 2011
Shadow Black wrote:
"Once saved, always saved" is the cornerstone of their religion. They eliminate the need for a judgment day.
Imagine someone going into court and telling the judge he doesn't need to judge you. You have already judged yourself innocent. Then tell Him to go ahead and judge these sinners. Try to leave and see what happens.
All "born again" Christians escapes judgement. It's those who have refused the gospel that will be judged.
comment

Rogersville, MO

#19 Dec 15, 2011
Yesu Kristo Mwokozi wangu wrote:
<quoted text>
However the Baptists are a Christian denomination, but they are not a religion and neither is Christianity a religion.
I guess I'd need your definition of "religion" in order to respond. Religion is an overused word, I'll admit. but in the sense of belief in a supernatural being, and of a group that has a set of commonly held beliefs, I would consider Baptists as comprising a religion.
If you are including more in the word than I perceive, or if my definition is faulty in your opinion, please elaborate.
comment

Rogersville, MO

#20 Dec 15, 2011
As regards the Nicodemus verse, I prefer the translation "born from above", but in either text, it aptly describes the awareness and submission to the will of God necessary for redemption.

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