a parable about the life after this one

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“be free indeed”

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#1
Apr 23, 2013
 

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Here is a thought-provoking parable:

In a mother's womb were two babies. One asked the other: "Do you believe in life after delivery?" The other replies, "why, of course. There has to be something ...after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later. "Nonsense," says the other. "There is no life after delivery. What would that life be?" "I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths." The other says "This is absurd! Walking is impossible. And eat with our mouths? Ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition. Life after delivery is to be excluded. The umbilical cord is too short." "I think there is something and maybe it's different than it is here." the other replies, "No one has ever come back from there. Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery it is nothing but darkness and anxiety and it takes us nowhere." "Well, I don't know," says the other, "but certainly we will see mother and she will take care of us." "Mother??" You believe in mother? Where is she now? "She is all around us. It is in her that we live. Without her there would not be this world." "I don't see her, so it's only logical that she doesn't exist." To which the other replied, "sometimes when you're in silence you can hear her, you can perceive her." I believe there is a reality after delivery and we are here to prepare ourselves for that reality....

So then, are we to be delivered to another reality after death?

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

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#2
Apr 23, 2013
 

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true liberty wrote:
Here is a thought-provoking parable:
In a mother's womb were two babies. One asked the other: "Do you believe in life after delivery?" The other replies, "why, of course. There has to be something ...after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later. "Nonsense," says the other. "There is no life after delivery. What would that life be?" "I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths." The other says "This is absurd! Walking is impossible. And eat with our mouths? Ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition. Life after delivery is to be excluded. The umbilical cord is too short." "I think there is something and maybe it's different than it is here." the other replies, "No one has ever come back from there. Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery it is nothing but darkness and anxiety and it takes us nowhere." "Well, I don't know," says the other, "but certainly we will see mother and she will take care of us." "Mother??" You believe in mother? Where is she now? "She is all around us. It is in her that we live. Without her there would not be this world." "I don't see her, so it's only logical that she doesn't exist." To which the other replied, "sometimes when you're in silence you can hear her, you can perceive her." I believe there is a reality after delivery and we are here to prepare ourselves for that reality....
So then, are we to be delivered to another reality after death?
Excellent Parable...

“be free indeed”

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#3
Apr 24, 2013
 
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent Parable...
Yes, to make us think -- many don't really think through things. We assume since we can't see it or perceive it that therefore it doesn't exist, for example.

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#4
Apr 24, 2013
 

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true liberty wrote:
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Yes, to make us think -- many don't really think through things. We assume since we can't see it or perceive it that therefore it doesn't exist, for example.
That is because if you cannot measure it, then it does not exist.

Does love exist? No. Love is a concept, a term, a useful word we toss about as if it has a definite meaning, but it really doesn't. Some people love chocolate, some love their kids, some love to sleep. Love is an emotion, and emotions don't exist. Neither do thoughts.

Here's another way to think about it - do your memories exist? When your brain shuts down and you die, what happens to your memories?

The soul or spirit doesn't exist either. But even if it did, think about this: since emotions and feelings and memories and thoughts and all sensations must be processed by the brain, then when you die and your brain no longer functions, all those things cease.

So even if you DID have a soul or spirit, it could not process any thoughts or feelings or emotions or memories or sensations because it doesn't have a brain.

Need proof? okay, tell me - when your soul/spirit entered your body (whether you believe that moment to be conception or birth or some other point) what did it think? What did it see? What did it feel? Do you recall exactly the moment when your soul/spirit entered your body? Of course not, because the soul/spirit (if it exists) has no memory, no thoughts, no feelings, etc.

And of course you know where this is leading - since the soul/spirit feels nothing, hears nothings, thinks about nothing, remembers nothing, then terms such as "eternal damnation" or "eternal bliss" mean nothing at all.

Your soul/spirit can't "burn" in hell, nor can it "rejoice" in heaven. It can't reunite with the souls/spirits of loved ones because it cannot recognize them or recall who they are/were.

The afterlife is a bogus concept invented and perpetuated by people who are afraid to admit that when you die, that's it.

Sorry to ruin your day, but reality isn't for the weak of mind or faint of heart.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

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#5
Apr 24, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
Here is a thought-provoking parable:
In a mother's womb were two babies. One asked the other: "Do you believe in life after delivery?" The other replies, "why, of course. There has to be something ...after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later. "Nonsense," says the other. "There is no life after delivery. What would that life be?" "I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths." The other says "This is absurd! Walking is impossible. And eat with our mouths? Ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition. Life after delivery is to be excluded. The umbilical cord is too short." "I think there is something and maybe it's different than it is here." the other replies, "No one has ever come back from there. Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery it is nothing but darkness and anxiety and it takes us nowhere." "Well, I don't know," says the other, "but certainly we will see mother and she will take care of us." "Mother??" You believe in mother? Where is she now? "She is all around us. It is in her that we live. Without her there would not be this world." "I don't see her, so it's only logical that she doesn't exist." To which the other replied, "sometimes when you're in silence you can hear her, you can perceive her." I believe there is a reality after delivery and we are here to prepare ourselves for that reality....
So then, are we to be delivered to another reality after death?
Good imagination!

Imagination none the less.

“Belief in God? An afterlife? I believe in rock: this apodictic [indisputably real] rock beneath my feet.”~ Edward Abbey, Fulbright scholar, vagabond, U.S. Army veteran, Park Ranger, University Professor

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

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#6
Apr 24, 2013
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Good imagination!
Imagination none the less.
“Belief in God? An afterlife? I believe in rock: this apodictic [indisputably real] rock beneath my feet.”~ Edward Abbey, Fulbright scholar, vagabond, U.S. Army veteran, Park Ranger, University Professor
A lot of good that 'rock' will do him...

Since: Jul 12

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#7
Apr 25, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
Here is a thought-provoking parable:
In a mother's womb were two babies. One asked the other: "Do you believe in life after delivery?" The other replies, "why, of course. There has to be something ...after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later. "Nonsense," says the other. "There is no life after delivery. What would that life be?" "I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths." The other says "This is absurd! Walking is impossible. And eat with our mouths? Ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition. Life after delivery is to be excluded. The umbilical cord is too short." "I think there is something and maybe it's different than it is here." the other replies, "No one has ever come back from there. Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery it is nothing but darkness and anxiety and it takes us nowhere." "Well, I don't know," says the other, "but certainly we will see mother and she will take care of us." "Mother??" You believe in mother? Where is she now? "She is all around us. It is in her that we live. Without her there would not be this world." "I don't see her, so it's only logical that she doesn't exist." To which the other replied, "sometimes when you're in silence you can hear her, you can perceive her." I believe there is a reality after delivery and we are here to prepare ourselves for that reality....
So then, are we to be delivered to another reality after death?
Chapter and verse please.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

San Antonio, TX

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#8
Apr 25, 2013
 
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Chapter and verse please.
Are you a disciple of Jesus?

Luke, Chapter 14, 33: So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

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#9
Apr 25, 2013
 
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you a disciple of Jesus?
You aren't.
Prophet of Jesus Christ

San Antonio, TX

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#10
Apr 25, 2013
 
dollarsbill wrote:
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You aren't.
Prove it.

Since: Jul 12

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#11
Apr 25, 2013
 
Prophet of Jesus Christ wrote:
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Prove it.
Your fruits here in Topix are proof. EVIL LIES!
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

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#12
Apr 25, 2013
 

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NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
A lot of good that 'rock' will do him...
A rock will do you more good in the real world than an imaginary god because rocks are real.

"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature." - Frank Lloyd Wright

“be free indeed”

Since: Jul 09

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#13
Apr 25, 2013
 
HighlyEvolved wrote:
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That is because if you cannot measure it, then it does not exist.
Does love exist? No. Love is a concept, a term, a useful word we toss about as if it has a definite meaning, but it really doesn't. Some people love chocolate, some love their kids, some love to sleep. Love is an emotion, and emotions don't exist. Neither do thoughts.
Here's another way to think about it - do your memories exist? When your brain shuts down and you die, what happens to your memories?
The soul or spirit doesn't exist either. But even if it did, think about this: since emotions and feelings and memories and thoughts and all sensations must be processed by the brain, then when you die and your brain no longer functions, all those things cease.
So even if you DID have a soul or spirit, it could not process any thoughts or feelings or emotions or memories or sensations because it doesn't have a brain.
Need proof? okay, tell me - when your soul/spirit entered your body (whether you believe that moment to be conception or birth or some other point) what did it think? What did it see? What did it feel? Do you recall exactly the moment when your soul/spirit entered your body? Of course not, because the soul/spirit (if it exists) has no memory, no thoughts, no feelings, etc.
And of course you know where this is leading - since the soul/spirit feels nothing, hears nothings, thinks about nothing, remembers nothing, then terms such as "eternal damnation" or "eternal bliss" mean nothing at all.
Your soul/spirit can't "burn" in hell, nor can it "rejoice" in heaven. It can't reunite with the souls/spirits of loved ones because it cannot recognize them or recall who they are/were.
The afterlife is a bogus concept invented and perpetuated by people who are afraid to admit that when you die, that's it.
Sorry to ruin your day, but reality isn't for the weak of mind or faint of heart.
Atoms and molecules exist, so can you measure the distance between them? or the depth of the earth's crust for that matter? that exists also

How do you know the soul of man does not exist or that the memories and sensations do not continue after death? How can you be sure?--- One thing is sure, you'd better hope that they don't continue and there is no accountability to a Maker, because if there is a purpose to all we do on earth there must be accountability for our actions and therefore memory and sensation in an afterlife to give meaning to all we do NOW!

I don't have to remember what happened when soul/spirit entered the body. There was no life for me before this happened. The only concern is the life from here forward and no philosophizing can release you from this debt.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

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#14
Apr 25, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
<quoted text>
Atoms and molecules exist, so can you measure the distance between them? or the depth of the earth's crust for that matter? that exists also
How do you know the soul of man does not exist or that the memories and sensations do not continue after death? How can you be sure?--- One thing is sure, you'd better hope that they don't continue and there is no accountability to a Maker, because if there is a purpose to all we do on earth there must be accountability for our actions and therefore memory and sensation in an afterlife to give meaning to all we do NOW!
I don't have to remember what happened when soul/spirit entered the body. There was no life for me before this happened. The only concern is the life from here forward and no philosophizing can release you from this debt.
Why would an omnipotent creator require accountability of “His” creations? If “He” is omnipotent “His” creations were created exactly the way he wanted them.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation ...if this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself.”- Albert Einstein

“be free indeed”

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#15
Apr 25, 2013
 
Big Al wrote:
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Why would an omnipotent creator require accountability of “His” creations? If “He” is omnipotent “His” creations were created exactly the way he wanted them.
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation ...if this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself.”- Albert Einstein
BECAUSE He is omnipotent, he Chose to create man with the capacity to choose right and wrong. You are correct in the sense that in creation, he said that with man he looked at him and said what He had made was "very good". He is sovereign in his creation, but yet man has free-will to choose. God chose man not to be a robot, which would be the case in your scenario, but to love and to receive love and to learn to love and to choose to love or not. With this there is the chance that man will reject his Creator, and God is fully aware of this and was not caught by surprise.

The creator will not bulldoze over man's will, and the mystery is that this does not negate His sovereignty, it instead shows forth His sovereignty in stark reality. For God must be a personal God and man must be created with a need to have a relationship with a Superior Being. Indeed all the ancient rituals of cultures in the past and with even tribes recently discovered show this need for this kind of relationship. A relationship that gives and receives love, and yes with accountability.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

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#16
Apr 25, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
<quoted text>
BECAUSE He is omnipotent, he Chose to create man with the capacity to choose right and wrong. You are correct in the sense that in creation, he said that with man he looked at him and said what He had made was "very good". He is sovereign in his creation, but yet man has free-will to choose. God chose man not to be a robot, which would be the case in your scenario, but to love and to receive love and to learn to love and to choose to love or not. With this there is the chance that man will reject his Creator, and God is fully aware of this and was not caught by surprise.
The creator will not bulldoze over man's will, and the mystery is that this does not negate His sovereignty, it instead shows forth His sovereignty in stark reality. For God must be a personal God and man must be created with a need to have a relationship with a Superior Being. Indeed all the ancient rituals of cultures in the past and with even tribes recently discovered show this need for this kind of relationship. A relationship that gives and receives love, and yes with accountability.
If this omnipotent creator is also omniscient then “He” knew exactly what “His” creations were going to do before “He” created them. The fact that “He” gave them free will would be meaningless to “Him”.

An omniscient “God” certainly was not sitting there wondering if Adam and Eve were going to eat the apple and if “He” is omnipotent and created them knowing they were going to eat the apple that must have been exactly what he wanted, otherwise “He” is not omnipotent.

“be free indeed”

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#17
Apr 26, 2013
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
If this omnipotent creator is also omniscient then “He” knew exactly what “His” creations were going to do before “He” created them. The fact that “He” gave them free will would be meaningless to “Him”.
An omniscient “God” certainly was not sitting there wondering if Adam and Eve were going to eat the apple and if “He” is omnipotent and created them knowing they were going to eat the apple that must have been exactly what he wanted, otherwise “He” is not omnipotent.
But free will is not meaningless to the creations themselves - and sure I suppose whether man is not free and is a robot, or is free and can choose either way God knows man's path and all of what will happen. I emphasize again free will has meaning for the created man, so in God's omniscience He prepared for man's fall by preparing and sending his Son to die for mankind. Man therefore has a meaningful choice to choose Jesus or reject His love.

Just because He knows what will happen doesn't mean that's His perfect will. What God promises though is that all things work together for good, and even those things that look terribly bad on the surface that we think God SHOULD have prevented if He is omnipotent and omnipotent, will turn eventually to the good, and this shows God is truly God!
Cujo

Regina, Canada

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#18
Apr 26, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
Here is a thought-provoking parable:
In a mother's womb were two babies. One asked the other: "Do you believe in life after delivery?" The other replies, "why, of course. There has to be something ...after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later. "Nonsense," says the other. "There is no life after delivery. What would that life be?" "I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths." The other says "This is absurd! Walking is impossible. And eat with our mouths? Ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition. Life after delivery is to be excluded. The umbilical cord is too short." "I think there is something and maybe it's different than it is here." the other replies, "No one has ever come back from there. Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery it is nothing but darkness and anxiety and it takes us nowhere." "Well, I don't know," says the other, "but certainly we will see mother and she will take care of us." "Mother??" You believe in mother? Where is she now? "She is all around us. It is in her that we live. Without her there would not be this world." "I don't see her, so it's only logical that she doesn't exist." To which the other replied, "sometimes when you're in silence you can hear her, you can perceive her." I believe there is a reality after delivery and we are here to prepare ourselves for that reality....
So then, are we to be delivered to another reality after death?
Sorry, making up a little story compairing biology in the natural world to a supernatural claim, is not thought provoking, it's dumb.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

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#19
Apr 26, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
<quoted text>
But free will is not meaningless to the creations themselves - and sure I suppose whether man is not free and is a robot, or is free and can choose either way God knows man's path and all of what will happen. I emphasize again free will has meaning for the created man, so in God's omniscience He prepared for man's fall by preparing and sending his Son to die for mankind. Man therefore has a meaningful choice to choose Jesus or reject His love.
So you believe that your “God’s” plan was to create imperfect beings with free will that he knew would incur his wrath by their disobedience thereby requiring the blood sacrifice of his own son to “Himself” to appease his own anger and save them from the consequences of the action which he knew would occur before they were created?
"The story of the redemption will not stand examination. That man should redeem himself from the sin of eating an apple by committing a murder on Jesus Christ, is the strangest system of religion ever set up." - Thomas Paine
true liberty wrote:
Just because He knows what will happen doesn't mean that's His perfect will. What God promises though is that all things work together for good, and even those things that look terribly bad on the surface that we think God SHOULD have prevented if He is omnipotent and omnipotent, will turn eventually to the good, and this shows God is truly God!
If you are saying that things happen in this universe contrary to your “God’s” will then your “God” is not omnipotent.

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#20
Apr 26, 2013
 
true liberty wrote:
<quoted text>
Atoms and molecules exist, so can you measure the distance between them? or the depth of the earth's crust for that matter? that exists also
How do you know the soul of man does not exist or that the memories and sensations do not continue after death? How can you be sure?--- One thing is sure, you'd better hope that they don't continue and there is no accountability to a Maker, because if there is a purpose to all we do on earth there must be accountability for our actions and therefore memory and sensation in an afterlife to give meaning to all we do NOW!
I don't have to remember what happened when soul/spirit entered the body. There was no life for me before this happened. The only concern is the life from here forward and no philosophizing can release you from this debt.
Here's how I know for sure that memories don't exist anywhere but in the brain:

When the area of the brain in which memories are stored become damaged, the ability to make memories is impaired.

If your soul could store memories than damage to the brain wouldn't impair the ability to make memories or recall them, but it does.

If your soul truly can remember everything it ever experienced then you should be able to describe for me exactly what your soul experienced when it first entered your body. Can you do that?

If your soul remembers every single event that ever took place in your life, then describe for me what happened on the day that you were one month old. Can you do that?

Of course you can't, because your soul (if it exists) remembers nothing. All memory resides in the brain, and when the brain is destroyed all those memories are destroyed as well.

Without a brain there is no feeling, no experience, no emotion, no thought.

All talk of an afterlife is pointless.

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