God created satan.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#1736 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
And where is this information located?
<quoted text>
Nah. If we are more than energy than the Creator is more than energy
Sorry but I have to agree with 007, he actually speaks the truth!
We are all a product of free energy and energy in the form of matter, all coming from the same universal source.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#1737 Mar 26, 2014
Truthseeker007 wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the Sumerian stories Enlil wanted the humans to just remain slaves with a low intelligence in fact he wanted to kill them all off.. Enki put a backdoor in the humans so they could gain intelligence and break out of the slavery. Enki was later turned into the Serpent of the Bible and Yehweh or Jahovah portrayed Enlil in stories such as the flood and Noah. The Adam and Eve story is just a condensed version of older stories and myths.
So, Enki was a backdoor kinda guy? Hmmm........

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#1738 Mar 26, 2014
Truthseeker007 wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't it say the gods in the original Hebrew?
Yes.

“Still Politically Incorrect”

Since: Feb 10

And Damn Proud Of It Too

#1739 Mar 26, 2014
Truthseeker007 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow you are in total denile Gary!! You are the one bashing and ridiculing me!!! You know there is help for pathological liars don't you?
See your wrong again and again I do believe in a God the difference is that I don't follow your Bilbe god or your god in a book. I follow and feel the energy of the Divine Source of the Cosmos and I don't rely on this dead god in a dead book.
I'm still not going to fall for it but you can pretend to understand and delude yourself if that is what makes you feel good.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#1740 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Whats the difference between you eating meat, and them sacrificing the animal to God Almighty before eating the meat? I'd say they're better off doing what they did than what me and you do. What about you?
I was not questioning the morality of killing and eating animals compared to sacrificing them....but to continue the discussion on your level which is to completely ignore the higher principles and issues being discussed......

I'm a vegetarian and do not eat meat.

Now that aside....can elevate the discussion once again?

My question was.....how does it make sense that YHWH holds the mother/child relationship of even animals sacred enough to issue a law that forbids the boiling of a young goat in its mother's milk but then command that animals be slaughtered for atoment of sin?

In the above example.... can you imagine an Israelite going to the temple and confessin gto the priest that he broke that law..... that he in fact DID boil a kid in its mother's milk and the priest telling him......

"For you sin go and sacrifice a goat"...... it makes no sense.
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1741 Mar 26, 2014
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry but I have to agree with 007, he actually speaks the truth!
We are all a product of free energy and energy in the form of matter, all coming from the same universal source.
So humans are strictly energy? Nothing more?

And no you dont agree lol. Because you dont believe in a creator of the universe as he stated.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#1742 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice insightful post that gave me insight into your beliefs. Now if you dont mind referring to the question, what makes it MORE logical that the universe is eternal over being created?
What makes it more logical?......Well the answer to your question is simple.....because it is the truth!!! Think about it.

1. Science has proven energy cannot be created or destroyed in other words energy is without beginning and without end..... energy IS eternal.

2. Everything that we perceive existing as a part of the physical universe, all of it...... consists of pure energy.

3. If energy is eternal then the universe is eternal.

This is what you also believe.....the only difference being that I use the word 'universe' and you use the word 'god'.

You believe that 'god' is without beginning or end, in other words eternal and then without any possible way of actually knowing...... you state that this 'god' then created the universe and you pretend to know why and so on.

And please do not be offended by my use of the word pretend... I use that word simply because if you are honest enough then you have to acknowledge that what you believe about god is based on your faith and your opinions of what other men have written in the book we call the bible about this god that choose to believe in.

Faith..... not fact.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that there is no way that you cannot be right about god, you may very well be....

All I'm stating and my statement is 100% truthful..... there is no way of proving beyond your faith that what you believe about god is in fact correct.

On the other hand what I'm saying about the universe is not based on faith but fact.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed...it is eternal. The universe is energy therefore it was not created and while this energy can be manifested in many different interfaces depending on the speed at which it vibrates.... the energy itself cannot be destroyed therefore it is eternal.

This statement is one of scientific fact..... the statement that an entity called 'god' created the universe.. it is a statement of faith.

Again...... Faith does not equal Fact
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1743 Mar 26, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I was not questioning the morality of killing and eating animals compared to sacrificing them....but to continue the discussion on your level which is to completely ignore the higher principles and issues being discussed......
I'm a vegetarian and do not eat meat.
Now that aside....can elevate the discussion once again?
Well Im sure there was a time you did eat meat. But thats cool for real. I have tried in the past to go vegetarian but it didnt work out to the measure I wanted lol.

My point was that people question sacrificing an animal to God has a thanks offering (or sin) and then partaking in the meat but do not question their own actions when it comes to eating meat and the TERRIBLE conditions the animals face before reaching said person's plate.
JJJ wrote:
My question was.....how does it make sense that YHWH holds the mother/child relationship of even animals sacred enough to issue a law that forbids the boiling of a young goat in its mother's milk but then command that animals be slaughtered for atoment of sin?
In the above example.... can you imagine an Israelite going to the temple and confessin gto the priest that he broke that law..... that he in fact DID boil a kid in its mother's milk and the priest telling him......
"For you sin go and sacrifice a goat"...... it makes no sense.
Well:

1. There were more ways than sacrifice to atone for sins
2. It was a treatment thing. The Hebrews were not to mistreat their animals. Thats why that law about the kid in its mother's milk was given. Now you'll say "sacrificing animals" is mistreatment, but then I'd ask, is eating meat mistreatment as well? If you say so then that tells me that you're consistent in your position.
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1744 Mar 26, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes it more logical?......Well the answer to your question is simple.....because it is the truth!!! Think about it.
1. Science has proven energy cannot be created or destroyed in other words energy is without beginning and without end..... energy IS eternal.
2. Everything that we perceive existing as a part of the physical universe, all of it...... consists of pure energy.
3. If energy is eternal then the universe is eternal.
This is what you also believe.....the only difference being that I use the word 'universe' and you use the word 'god'.
Yes. I still dont see where it is MORE logical that the universe is eternal than God is. But I'll leave this sentence here and see if the rest of your post answers that.
JJJ wrote:
You believe that 'god' is without beginning or end, in other words eternal and then without any possible way of actually knowing...... you state that this 'god' then created the universe and you pretend to know why and so on.
And please do not be offended by my use of the word pretend... I use that word simply because if you are honest enough then you have to acknowledge that what you believe about god is based on your faith and your opinions of what other men have written in the book we call the bible about this god that choose to believe in.
Faith..... not fact.
No offense taken. Especially with the civility that you have always discussed with me. But just as you say I believe God exists "in faith" then you believe God does not exist "in faith" Cant have it one way and not the other my friend.
JJJ wrote:
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that there is no way that you cannot be right about god, you may very well be....
All I'm stating and my statement is 100% truthful..... there is no way of proving beyond your faith that what you believe about god is in fact correct.
No I cant prove anything to you about that. But it WILL BE PROVEN. One example is Israel existing again after 2000+ years of not existing. Then Hebrews were gathered from their respective countries into this new land. Next, world war 3.
JJJ wrote:
On the other hand what I'm saying about the universe is not based on faith but fact.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed...it is eternal. The universe is energy therefore it was not created and while this energy can be manifested in many different interfaces depending on the speed at which it vibrates.... the energy itself cannot be destroyed therefore it is eternal.
This statement is one of scientific fact..... the statement that an entity called 'god' created the universe.. it is a statement of faith.
Again...... Faith does not equal Fact
Can you prove that energy cannot be created without using someone elses word? Just as you wouldnt accept me proving something use someone's words(the bible) can you do it?
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#1745 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Im sure there was a time you did eat meat. But thats cool for real. I have tried in the past to go vegetarian but it didnt work out to the measure I wanted lol.
My point was that people question sacrificing an animal to God has a thanks offering (or sin) and then partaking in the meat but do not question their own actions when it comes to eating meat and the TERRIBLE conditions the animals face before reaching said person's plate.
<quoted text>
Well:
1. There were more ways than sacrifice to atone for sins
2. It was a treatment thing. The Hebrews were not to mistreat their animals. Thats why that law about the kid in its mother's milk was given. Now you'll say "sacrificing animals" is mistreatment, but then I'd ask, is eating meat mistreatment as well? If you say so then that tells me that you're consistent in your position.
I am merely pointing to the inconsistency of god caring enough about animals to view the boiling of kid in its mother's milk as something immoral but then decrees the killing of animals in their thousands for sin and other offerings...

I mean 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep alone were sacrificed for the inauguration of the Jewish temple back in Solomon's day.
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1746 Mar 26, 2014
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok my friend, and among people there are two kinds of elite; the visible elite who are depending on getting admiration from the public, and we have those who are almost invisible but maybe more important than the others when it comes to our progess as a species.
Im talking about the hidden government that basically decides when humanity progresses and when it stagnates because they (somehow) instituted a system that allows them to do this.
Ironhart wrote:
Having political and economic power could be good, but not neccessarily.
More often than not it is an illution and disadvantage.
I agree. But its an illusion that humans all across the world are caught up in. Now who's going to save you or your descendants from this bondage?
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#1747 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
No offense taken. Especially with the civility that you have always discussed with me. But just as you say I believe God exists "in faith" then you believe God does not exist "in faith" Cant have it one way and not the other my friend. it?
Not sure I can agree with you here because I think our main difference lies in our respective definitions of the word 'god'

I mean I acknowledge that I am generalising but I think I'm reasonably correct in saying that you believe in the god of the OT of the bible, YHWH, the god of Abraham.... and you believe that this god through the master worker of Proverbs 8 (that many believe is referring to Jesus) all things were created.... you believe that god is the alpha and the omega

Now while I most certainly do not believe in any such god.... I still believe in a universal energy that is at work as evidenced by the expanding universe.. while I do not believe that energy exists as an entity that does not mean that I am any less in awe with the process

But where you see creation/existence as the result of an effort or process... I see creation/existence as the process

And while I cannot definitively state what god is.... I can based on the premise that we are made in god's image state definitively what he is not..... and 'he' cannot be that entity that the bible describes..

The bible states what father when his child asks for a loaf of bread would give him a stone?

In line with that principle.... what father would sit back and watch his child suffer when it is within his power to remove the suffering instantly?

What father when challenged in regard to their child's love and integrity would allow the challenger to almost destroy the child and everything that he loves such as his own children (the account of Job)... for no other reason that to prove a point?

But in the end..... none of it matters.... what matters is how we live our lives and not because of a moral score card... but simply because of cause and effect.... when we respect our environment and we love our fellow as we love ourself....

Our lives and the lives of others are improved and god in whatever form we want to believe he may exist or not exist.... such an entity would not care about ritualistic worship.... about the correct religion the correct version.....for those considerations are of the ego....
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#1748 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>Can you prove that energy cannot be created without using someone elses word? Just as you wouldnt accept me proving something use someone's words(the bible) can you do it?
Put simply..... you cannot create energy without using energy to create it.

One simply has to work backwards from the end product to deduce that energy cannot be created..... for you see whatever point you arrive at..... the question that needs to be asked is....

"And how was that created"? And whatever your answer is then the question must be asked again and again.

For example if someone was state that universe was created or come to be because of the big bang..... then my question would be...

'What went bang'? If the answer was....'it was a reaction between gases and various compounds etc (and again forgive my lack of scientific technical terms )...

I would ask..... " well gases are forms of energy... so where did the come from and then if you could explain to me the possible components that would be needed for gases to form the obvious question would be... and where did the energy needed for that reaction come occur.....

And so no matter what process or product you arrive at there is always the question as to what was the step before that one and this back tracking is infinite and the only way to stop the questions is to face the undeniable fact.....

That energy itself has always been in existence, it is infinite, eternal, without beginning and for those like yourself who believe in a biblical god.......

You also will make the statement that god never began..... he always just existed...

So there is no denying that you cannot create energy.... you can use it and transform it but there is nothing that you can create without needing energy to create it...

Simple. So really... we both believe in this energy that has always existed and is eternal.... you attach a persona to it with a history and a future etc where as I am content to just accept that this eternal energy just is what it is.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#1749 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
So humans are strictly energy? Nothing more?
And no you dont agree lol. Because you dont believe in a creator of the universe as he stated.
Albert Einstein brougt in the idea that E=mc2 and very few will disagree with him.

We are matter or mass and we are almost 100% depending on free energy brought to us in the form of light from our main source; the sun.

The speed of light indicates that there is space and time involved.

Like I have said before; time is two totally different things.
Time is basically how energy makes everyting happen, how it makes the clocks tick and the water run.

But time experienced as this moment is the only thing that remains when all energy has run out and all mass is gone!
Space and this moment, the present, are to my opinion static values outside of everything that physically happens.

But from where does matter and energy come?

Some very few of us believe that matter and energy has originated from this static "nothingness" outside of everything that exists physically.

I have to admit that this idea is impossible to fully understand from our possition "within" the systems of everything that happens, it is another very different kind of logics.
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1750 Mar 26, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I am merely pointing to the inconsistency of god caring enough about animals to view the boiling of kid in its mother's milk as something immoral but then decrees the killing of animals in their thousands for sin and other offerings...
I mean 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep alone were sacrificed for the inauguration of the Jewish temple back in Solomon's day.
Thats not an inconsistency friend. The law doesnt advocate mistreating animals. That includes the way our clothes and food are made. Because I assume you dont wear leather right?

Sacrificing animals is not bad just as killing animals for food. In the beginning God Almighty designated humans to have dominion over the animals. Later, God gives Noah the command that humans could eat animals just as long as there was no blood in it. Then, even later, the command is given to Moses that there are clean and unclean animals that are to and not to be eaten.

This paragraph isnt focused on my point though lol. My point is, we have dominion over the animals. That means we can use the animals to our benefit. You know? Like we do horses? Or cows for milk? Thats where it stops though. We are not to abuse animals. And killing them in a quick and painless way is not abusing them.
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1751 Mar 26, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I mean I acknowledge that I am generalising but I think I'm reasonably correct in saying that you believe in the god of the OT of the bible, YHWH, the god of Abraham. you believe that god is the alpha and the omega
Now while I most certainly do not believe in any such god.... I still believe in a universal energy that is at work as evidenced by the expanding universe.. while I do not believe that energy exists as an entity that does not mean that I am any less in awe with the process
But where you see creation/existence as the result of an effort or process... I see creation/existence as the process
The process from what? The universe just existed? I dont see how this is more logical than a being setting things into place. As detailed our bodies are? As detailed as our environment is? As detailed as our earth is? As detailed as the earths distance from the sun without being too cold/too hot for us to exist? This all (and more) just happened (practically) by chance since the universe isnt alive and couldnt have placed the laws into place that it abides by into existence?

See this is FAITH. You place faith that your theory is correct. But in actuality, it does not make sense to say this all happened by chance. Not when us as humans can set things into order. And bring a (somewhat) intelligent design into our existence.
JJJ wrote:
And while I cannot definitively state what god is.... I can based on the premise that we are made in god's image state definitively what he is not..... and 'he' cannot be that entity that the bible describes..
The bible states what father when his child asks for a loaf of bread would give him a stone?
In line with that principle.... what father would sit back and watch his child suffer when it is within his power to remove the suffering instantly?
What father when challenged in regard to their child's love and integrity would allow the challenger to almost destroy the child and everything that he loves such as his own children (the account of Job)... for no other reason that to prove a point?
You and I are the clay lol. Thats really what it comes down to. So with the situation we are placed in, we deal with it the best we can. I mean thats what all humans across the world do right? They have situations (good or bad) and do the best they can with their specific situations. Im speaking generally not as a blanket statement.

So in the situation we are placed with theres obviously a force of evil at work on the world. I mean you do understand that most of the suffering is because of man right? And in the beginning it was not meant to be as such?
JJJ wrote:
What matters is how we live our lives and not because of a moral score card... but simply because of cause and effect.... when we respect our environment and we love our fellow as we love ourself....
Our lives and the lives of others are improved and god in whatever form we want to believe he may exist or not exist.... such an entity would not care about ritualistic worship.... about the correct religion the correct version.....for those considerations are of the ego....
So you think that God would not take offense if one said that a blade of grass was its creator? Would your parents get offended if you went up to them and told them that they werent your parents? I think so. On the same token I think God can get offended when we do wrong against God. Like call out to God's name in vain. Or murder our neighbor. Or call other creations our "Creator". Or straight up ignoring God. In other words, there is a way to appreciate the Creator and the creation God Almighty provided for us. That simple.

And I also believe there are better existences. And that if we do what is right, we can reach those existences. And maybe just maybe, eventually reach the presence of God Almighty.:)
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1752 Mar 26, 2014
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
So really... we both believe in this energy that has always existed and is eternal.... you attach a persona to it with a history and a future etc where as I am content to just accept that this eternal energy just is what it is.
Yep. Because it doesnt make much sense to think that a lifeless universe popped into existence with the type of detail it has. It makes MUCH MORE sense to believe that God put it into place. Or what we call "God" and other titles that are really not Its NAME.

You can be "content" but I would think that an intelligent person as yourself would seek to find God so you dont disrespect Its existence and what Its done for you. Even if you dont believe God had a hand in your personal life (and I would disagree but then again I AM not you) God did bring the trees into existence. The air you breath. The vegetation you eat. The animals that you use when you wear clothing. The oil that you use to drive a car or ride on a bus. I mean you see I could go on and on. But the thing is you have to seek to find. Not simply say "Im content with believe that the universe is the reason the universe exists. And it is the one that brought the detail we see in our human bodies as well as in existence". Well you can use your free will to say and believe that. I would just advise against it. But it is YOUR free will to make that decision. Im just here to guide those that are lost to be found again. Some will take it others wont.
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#1753 Mar 26, 2014
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
Albert Einstein brougt in the idea that E=mc2 and very few will disagree with him.
We are matter or mass and we are almost 100% depending on free energy brought to us in the form of light from our main source; the sun.
The speed of light indicates that there is space and time involved.
Like I have said before; time is two totally different things.
Time is basically how energy makes everyting happen, how it makes the clocks tick and the water run.
But time experienced as this moment is the only thing that remains when all energy has run out and all mass is gone!
Space and this moment, the present, are to my opinion static values outside of everything that physically happens.
But from where does matter and energy come?
Some very few of us believe that matter and energy has originated from this static "nothingness" outside of everything that exists physically.
I have to admit that this idea is impossible to fully understand from our possition "within" the systems of everything that happens, it is another very different kind of logics.
You agreed with truthseeker. Well he said that the Creator is energy. If the Creator is simply "energy" than how can humans (as you just implied in your post) that humans are MORE than energy? I dont see where that was addressed in your post.

Where did the sun come from? The moon? The stars? The planets? They just "popped" into existence because of the universe despite not having a life force to cause it to do so? The universe then decides (despite not having life) to abide by laws that were enforced on it by itself (the universe) despite not having life?

See this is NONSENSE. But this is what you believe. Because you have a personal problem with God and Its existence. What that is, Idk. Maybe you were made for this. Or maybe its choice. Thats what YOU have to find out friend.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#1754 Mar 26, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Im talking about the hidden government that basically decides when humanity progresses and when it stagnates because they (somehow) instituted a system that allows them to do this.
<quoted text>
I agree. But its an illusion that humans all across the world are caught up in. Now who's going to save you or your descendants from this bondage?
Yes my friend, these are the big questions!

We are up against how human nature are bringing us astray.

Once we are born we intuitively will think that we will live forever and that we are the number one important individual in this world.

This is what people of the “elite” will think also, and the fact that our time here is limited will find its way under the carpet.

We have seen this again and again with people like Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin and Mao and so on and so on, what they did was manipulating the lives of others for no other purpose than serving their own obscure emotions.
We can see one of these “balloons” presently living out his dreams during these days, but before long he will be getting old and be gone too, the only thing; he doesn’t understand it yet.

The worst thing that could happen is that their emotional fantasies will live on and haunt the lives of the coming generations, in which they have become immortal in some strange way.

There are boundaries between people, we are to be into categories; ethnicity, land, language, culture, social level, intellectual level and so on, and these are the “tangents” of the elite.

I have to admit that a sound life philosophy that includes the individual value of everyone and that will secure the individual rights of everyone has to be the answer, and it is urgent, but I cannot see that any presently known religion has a practice that secures all our basic values.

In order to get there it has to be a lot of give and take, and then; maybe ---

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#1755 Mar 27, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
You agreed with truthseeker. Well he said that the Creator is energy. If the Creator is simply "energy" than how can humans (as you just implied in your post) that humans are MORE than energy? I dont see where that was addressed in your post.
Where did the sun come from? The moon? The stars? The planets? They just "popped" into existence because of the universe despite not having a life force to cause it to do so? The universe then decides (despite not having life) to abide by laws that were enforced on it by itself (the universe) despite not having life?
See this is NONSENSE. But this is what you believe. Because you have a personal problem with God and Its existence. What that is, Idk. Maybe you were made for this. Or maybe its choice. Thats what YOU have to find out friend.
You are most certainly right that all of this is a puzzle and we does not have the good answer, not scientifically and not from religion so far.

Maybe our number system could illustrate in some way the logics that we are facing.
At one end, we have zero or nothing and at the other, we have the infinite.
In between these two, there are numbers that process different “individual” qualities in respect of the others.

We can see how the structures of matter, particles and chemicals are following mathematical patterns as if these are laws of nature, and these are structures and logics coming out naturally from the big numbers and all by itself.

In addition, the possibilities given by these processes are infinite too, almost “running on rails” into more and more complicity but always overruled by everything else that exists, it is evolution at the edge of chaos.

One outcome of this is the human mind, how we can observe our environment and combine our observations into certain logical conclusions and a whole universe of creative ideas.

We could say that evolution have brought in a new element of consciousness, a self-awareness that lives with us and other living creatures entirely.

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