If Jesus said few would find the "roa...
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#152 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>You wanted an OT verse that said someone could die for someone else's sin.
I didnt get that. I got a verse that you're attempting to turn into that. While at the same time ignoring what God said to Moses and saying that God did NOT give a reason to Moses when its right there written in Exodus 32:33 that God DID give Moses a reason as to why he could not be put to death for another's sins.

If God had simply said "NO!" and left it at that you may have a point. But He didnt. He said that the one that SINNED would be the one that would be blotted out. But now people are saying that Jesus (allegedly sinless) is being put to death for another's (the one that sinned against God) sins. Its simply not compatible with what is in Exodus 32. And theres even more things like that in christianity that are not compatible with the "other side" of their bible that they only use when they want to validate Jesus.
Thinking

Poole, UK

#153 Jul 18, 2014
Your OT is based on the racial superiority of the jews.

The nazis were mainly protestant christians.

If people like you stopped believing in any old sh!t, less innocents would die.
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>No, I am correct. NAZIism is based on racial superiority. The NAZIs were cultivation Aryan breeding. Jews and Slavs were inferior races.
It is frightening to realize that the reason the German soldiers fought so hard on the eastern front was because they thought they were fighting for the sake of human evolution. Read "The Nazification Of The German Army".
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#154 Jul 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Your OT is based on the racial superiority of the jews.
No. No its not
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#155 Jul 18, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm saying is that you're ignoring what God said to Moses for your belief.
Genesis 3:15 doesn't say anyone is going to die for our sins. I mean you can say "this = this" but as I illustrated that doesn't make it so
Genesis 3:15 says One is going to die for our sins. You can't see it but that doesn't change it. Your illustration was pointless.

Exodus 33:19 ....."I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
go figure
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#156 Jul 18, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I didnt get that. I got a verse that you're attempting to turn into that. While at the same time ignoring what God said to Moses and saying that God did NOT give a reason to Moses when its right there written in Exodus 32:33 that God DID give Moses a reason as to why he could not be put to death for another's sins.
If God had simply said "NO!" and left it at that you may have a point. But He didnt. He said that the one that SINNED would be the one that would be blotted out. But now people are saying that Jesus (allegedly sinless) is being put to death for another's (the one that sinned against God) sins. Its simply not compatible with what is in Exodus 32. And theres even more things like that in christianity that are not compatible with the "other side" of their bible that they only use when they want to validate Jesus.
Saying that the one that sinned would be the one blotted out was saying NO to Moses. There is no reason given.
Genesis 3:15 says One will die to break satan's power. You can't see it because you are determined not to see it.
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#157 Jul 18, 2014
Thinking wrote:
Your OT is based on the racial superiority of the jews.
The nazis were mainly protestant christians.
If people like you stopped believing in any old sh!t, less innocents would die.
<quoted text>
Explain why the NAZIs considered the Slavs inferior. The Slavs were Christians. One of the reasons Germany lost was because the NAZIs refused to believe that the Slavs could build a better tank (the T 34) than Germany. Explain why the NAZIs passed laws for racial purity. You do not know anything about the NAZIs. They were not Christian. They were based on German pre-Christian paganism. Have you ever even heard of Wagner?
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#158 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis 3:15 says One is going to die for our sins.
That is a lie. That may be how you interpret it, but that is NOT what it says.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Thats what it says. Now again you may interpret it as that, but it is NOT saying that someone would die for your sins.
Old GT wrote:
Exodus 33:19 ....."I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
go figure
Nice verse. Unrelated, but nice nonetheless.
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#159 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>Saying that the one that sinned would be the one blotted out was saying NO to Moses. There is no reason given.
Umm no lol. Heres the reason God didnt allow Moses to die for another's sins:

33 And the Lord said to Moses,“Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

THATS the reason. As I said, you would have a point if God simply said "No!" and left it at that. But He didnt. He clearly gave the reason as to why Moses could not die for another's sins. Just to reiterate:

33 And the Lord said to Moses,“Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

THATS the reason.
Old GT wrote:
Genesis 3:15 says One will die to break satan's power. You can't see it because you are determined not to see it.
Well itt doesnt say anyone would die to break "Satan's power". Again, you can CHOOSE to interpret it that way, but that isnt what it says. But even if it did, that doesnt mean that the only way to break satan's power is for someone to die for our sins. You're just reaching because the law and the prophets DO NOT state that someone will come and die for sins. Thats a belief you get from the men in the NT. That was my point in the beginning.
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#160 Jul 18, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a lie. That may be how you interpret it, but that is NOT what it says.
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”
Thats what it says. Now again you may interpret it as that, but it is NOT saying that someone would die for your sins.
<quoted text>
Nice verse. Unrelated, but nice nonetheless.
So what do you think God is saying in Genesis 3:15?
What is it that will be provided by God in the Mount of the Lord? Genesis 22:14?
How will God make an end of sins 400+ years after the rebuilding of Jerusalem? Daniel 9:24
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#161 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>So what do you think God is saying in Genesis 3:15?
Not that someone is coming to die for your sins. It says what it says.
Old GT wrote:
What is it that will be provided by God in the Mount of the Lord? Genesis 22:14?
I dont think Abraham believed that God would provide a human for sacrifice.
Old GT wrote:
How will God make an end of sins 400+ years after the rebuilding of Jerusalem? Daniel 9:24
Making an end of sins, doesnt mean someone comes and dies for your sins. Again, you can interpret it that way if you choose, but its not what it says.
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#162 Jul 18, 2014
If you look at it objectively:
Old GT wrote:
You can't see it because you are determined not to see it.
This applies to yourself. That is the reason why you do not address what Moses was told when he tried to die for another's sins. That answer eliminates the belief you're clinging to.

If God says "the one who sinned is the one that will be blotted out" how can you go with a belief that says the one who sinned (and his sins are not forgiven and forgotten) will not be blotted out because someone who was innocent took their place? I dont know. But it seems that you rather deflect to interpret verses a specific way that lends credence to your belief. Instead of letting whats written speak for itself
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#163 Jul 18, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Not that someone is coming to die for your sins. It says what it says.
<quoted text>
I dont think Abraham believed that God would provide a human for sacrifice.
<quoted text>
Making an end of sins, doesnt mean someone comes and dies for your sins. Again, you can interpret it that way if you choose, but its not what it says.
How did God make an end to sins 400+ years after Jerusalem was rebuilt?
Daniel 9:24
it says "to make an end to sins"
about 2,000 years ago.
that is what it says.
Do not ignore it.
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#164 Jul 18, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Not that someone is coming to die for your sins. It says what it says.
<quoted text>
I dont think Abraham believed that God would provide a human for sacrifice.
<quoted text>
Making an end of sins, doesnt mean someone comes and dies for your sins. Again, you can interpret it that way if you choose, but its not what it says.
"It says what it says"???
You're ignoring the verse.
It says the Seed of woman will bruise the serpents head and the serpent will bruise His heel.
The first prophecy.
Can you explain it?
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#165 Jul 18, 2014
Exodus 33:19 is related because God will have compassion on whom He will have compassion. When God says He will blot out the sinner in Exodus 32:33, He is dealing with the situation Moses is asking about. That is the answer to Moses. But that is not an all time principle as evidenced by Exodus 33:19.
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#166 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>How did God make an end to sins 400+ years after Jerusalem was rebuilt?
Daniel 9:24
it says "to make an end to sins"
about 2,000 years ago.
that is what it says.
Do not ignore it.
Well lets get the conversation straight first.

If you want me to give you my interpretation of scripture, we can do that. But thats AFTER we deal with the subject at hand first. You keep ignoring the FACT of what God told Moses to continue holding your belief. What Daniel 9:24 says doesnt equate to someone dying for your sins. Genesis 3:15 doesnt equate to someone dying for your sins. Again, you can choose to interpret it that way, but it doesnt make it so. So again, unless you can bring something FACTUAL (and not up to flimsy interpretation) I think its clear that the belief isnt supportedby what God Almighty told Israel through Moses and the prophets.
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#167 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>"It says what it says"???
You're ignoring the verse.
It says the Seed of woman will bruise the serpents head and the serpent will bruise His heel.
The first prophecy.
Can you explain it?
Sure I can give you an interpretation if that is what you would like. But first, we have to establish the situation at hand. And the situation is that Genesis 3:15 isnt saying that someone is dying for our sins. At all.

If you want my interpretation, I can give it. But first we have to be clear about what its not saying.
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#168 Jul 18, 2014
Old GT wrote:
Exodus 33:19 is related because God will have compassion on whom He will have compassion. When God says He will blot out the sinner in Exodus 32:33, He is dealing with the situation Moses is asking about. That is the answer to Moses. But that is not an all time principle as evidenced by Exodus 33:19.
17 So the Lord said to Moses,“I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”

18 And he said,“Please, show me Your glory.”

19 Then He said,“I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”

CONTEXT my friend. The CONTEXT is God saying He will gracious and have compassion to who He wants. And this specific situation was MOSES who God had compassion for. It is irrelevant to Exodus 32:33

And you apply this verse to an "all time principle" but Exodus32:33 isnt? Based on what?
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#169 Jul 19, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure I can give you an interpretation if that is what you would like. But first, we have to establish the situation at hand. And the situation is that Genesis 3:15 isnt saying that someone is dying for our sins. At all.
If you want my interpretation, I can give it. But first we have to be clear about what its not saying.
So what is your interpretation?
Old GT

Carmel, IN

#170 Jul 19, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
17 So the Lord said to Moses,“I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”
18 And he said,“Please, show me Your glory.”
19 Then He said,“I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
CONTEXT my afriend. The CONTEXT is God saying He will gracious and have compassion to who He wants. And this specific situation was MOSES who God had compassion for. It is irrelevant to Exodus 32:33
And you apply this verse to an "all time principle" but Exodus32:33 isnt? Based on what?
No, I said Ex. 32:33 is not an all time principle based on Ex. 33:19.
If you consider your argument, you are claiming Ex 32:33 is an all time principle and that is God's reason for denying Moses appeal.
I am saying Ex 32:33 is not an all time principle (Ex 33:19) but a NO response to Moses.
Is that clear?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#171 Jul 19, 2014
No interpretation needed. Lygerian has no sacrifice/ forgiveness for his sins.

Leviticus 17:11 (NKJV)
11 ; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

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