The Bible - Is it the Word of GOD?

The Bible - Is it the Word of GOD?

Posted in the Christian Forum

First Prev
of 13
Next Last

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#1 Jan 7, 2008
"Many believers have been taught that Scripture is the ultimate measure of truth, never imagining that the bible itself might come under a higher measure of truth, under the scrutiny of reason."

Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith, page 92

The Bible is the foundation of the Christianity. It is viewed by fundamentalist Christians as the crystal pure, clear, infallible word of their god.

They claim that it is absolutely the most wonderful collection of books in the history of the universe, that it is as perfect as any written document could ever be.

My question is this-have they ever read the thing?

I have read the Bible, and it just does not measure up to this sensational billing. In fact, it falls quite short of it. To be perfectly blunt, the books of the Bible are not materially different from other books written during the same time period.

The books of the Bible merely reflect the primitive ideas and questionable morals of the ancient people who wrote them.

All Christians will claim that the Bible was inspired or created by their god in some fashion.
If you ask a Christian specifically why he or she believes this, your query will likely be met with one of the following responses:

"Because it says so."

"Because it shows fulfilled prophecies."

"Because it shows remarkable consistency for a book written over the course of one thousand years by some forty different authors."

"Because it details the perfect teachings and the ultimate sacrifice of our dear Lord Jesus."

"Because it is the ultimate guidebook for life."

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#2 Jan 7, 2008
The "because it says so" response is surprisingly common. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it!" The problem, of course, is with the first three words.

The fulfilled prophecy claim is a tired Christian refrain which just does not stand up to critical examination.

The Bible is not consistent, it is inconsistent. It is, in fact, a morass of contradictions. Even if it was somehow "consistent," this would not make it supernatural.

There is no evidence that the Jesus portrayed in the Bible existed anywhere outside of the pages of the Bible, and the moral goodness and worth of the teachings ascribed to the biblical Jesus are dubious at best. In a moment I will explain why this is so.

The Bible is a guidebook for life? This is the most asinine claim Christians make, and that is saying a lot. It is supremely asinine because the Bible glorifies war and pillaging, condones torture, promotes infanticide, advocates child abuse, belittles and degrades women, and so on. In the Old Testament, the Christian god personally murders infants and children (Exodus 12:29, II Kings 2:23,24), it supports slavery (Exodus 21:20, Duet. 15:12-17, Duet. 20:10, Joshua 16:10) and, time and again, it orders its chosen people to massacre men, women and children (Samuel 15:3, Numbers 21:31, Isaiah 13:16, Duet. 3:3-8, Joshua 8:24-16, Hosea 13:16, etc.). I am sorry, but the Bible is not a guidebook for life.

Of course Christians will explain away the cruelties and atrocities of the Bible by arguing that non-Christians take them out of context. However, if there is some "context" in which the owning of slaves, the slaughter of infants and the butchery of innocent women and children is justified, Bible believers have yet to define what it is.

Naturally Christians prefer to ignore the Old Testament's violence and instead focus their attention on the New Testament. They will confidently point to the figure of Jesus Christ as their religion's supreme example of love, mercy and kindness, as their shining beacon of divine moral perfection-and as absolute proof of the the Bible's divine origin.

But do the words of Jesus Christ really support this view of him, and does the morality and example of the Jesus of the Gospels truly reveal the Bible to be divinely-inspired? Let's examine the Scriptures.

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#3 Jan 7, 2008
In Luke 12:47, Jesus uses a metaphor involving slavery to impress upon his followers the nature of their relationship with God: "And that servant (Greek doulos = slave) who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating."

In Luke 12:37, Jesus says, "Blessed are those servants (slaves) whom the master finds awake when he comes..." In Luke 16:13, Jesus informs his disciples that "No servant (slave) can serve two masters..." Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus Christ speak out against the institution of slavery, which pervaded the world during his time.

Instead, Jesus incorporates this barbaric practice into his parables.
What did Jesus have to say about the family? In Luke 14:26, Jesus explains to his followers that "If any man come to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."

Christian apologists claim that "hate" in this passage really means "to put into disregard" or "to love less than me." However, the New Testament was originally written in Greek and the word that was used here was miseo.

(1) Miseo does not mean "to put into disregard." nor does it mean "to love less than me." Miseo does, in fact, mean hate.(2) The prefixes for misanthropy and misogyny come from miseo. So the question remains: why does Jesus Christ tell his followers to hate their families and their lives?

In Matthew 10:35 this actually appears to be Jesus' mission: "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household." Jesus' anti-family attitude even extends to his own mother. In John 2:4 he rebukes her, saying, "O woman, what have I to do with thee?"

In Matthew 19:11, Jesus encourages his disciples to castrate themselves: "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

He who is able to receive it, let him receive it." Does this make any sense? Evidently it did to the third century theologian Origen, who castrated himself "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#4 Jan 7, 2008
Jesus Christ continually threatens eternal torment and suffering to those who have trouble with the idea that he is the son of a god. John 15:6 reads: "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

In John 3:18, Jesus informs his followers that "...he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." Further on, in John 3:36, Jesus reiterates his warning: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him."

In Luke 12:9, Jesus again warns his disciples that "he who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God." In Luke 12:5, Jesus announces, "I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!" Jesus describes hell as a place where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched," (Mark 9:48), where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."(Matt. 25:30).

How is anyone, anywhere, supposed to find love in someone who threatens people with eternal torture simply because of what they think?

Christians may want to rationalize away these and countless other passages which reveal the Bible's fallibility and immorality.

They may insist that the words of Jesus and God that support slavery, castration, torture, murder and hate are taken out of context. The problem, however, is that believers have taken the whole Bible out of context.

The Bible is a confused jumble of tales and fables, geneologies, poems and proverbs which were written in a time of superstition, mythology, ignorance and savagery.

The early Church compiled these writings, edited them and foisted them on the world as the "Word of God" to justify its own existence.

In this respect, the Bible is little different than such other sacred books as the Koran or the Bhagavad-Gita.

It appears that most Christians do not actually read the Bible for themselves but instead have it spoon-fed to them by their ministers and priests.

If Christians truly want to understand why others find their respect and awe for the Bible to be unfounded and undeserved, they must read it for themselves-all of it.

Then they will discover that the books of the Bible are much like other ancient books, written by fallible, sometimes cruel people living in a harsh, superstitious, scientifically illiterate age.
No Fear

United States

#5 Jan 7, 2008
It would be a start for you A......since you never read it........only taking or reading others peoples view on something your so against. Why is that? Please don't pull the "because of Christians" card.......
Veronica

Amstelveen, Netherlands

#6 Jan 7, 2008
I wholeheartedly agree lets examine it.
You have not mentioned incest. Abraham and his wife Sarah, who is his half sister, same father different mother.
LotÂ’s two virgin daughters having sex with him. Both gave birth to a boy child.

Since: Dec 07

Gunpowder, MD

#7 Jan 7, 2008
No Fear wrote:
It would be a start for you A......since you never read it........only taking or reading others peoples view on something your so against. Why is that? Please don't pull the "because of Christians" card.......
That is a very good point dude! I love it when people try to write on something THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT! That's like me dismissing calculus as foolish even though I never took a class on it! Atheists is committing the same fallacy he accuses Christians of, namely accepting or not accepting a literary work based on one's opinion! This is a circular fallacy.

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#8 Jan 7, 2008
Hello

No Fear..

Hope your day is going Well!

Ok,, lets look at this logically...

I already have a Great distaste of the Bible, from the parts I have read...

Logically,,since I already have a distaste for it,, I view it as Fiction and I'am a known Atheist,, that if I read the Entire bible from cover to cover, I'm going to come away thinking Differently, a More flowery outlook on the bible than I already have ?

I assure you that if I read any more of the Book of Fiction, already knowing that it is a man made book About God, not By God, my Outlook on the rest of the bible Isn't going to have a Favorable Review.

This is where Probability comes into play...

What do you think the Probability of my coming away after reading the Book of Fiction with a Good feeling about it is ??

Knowing my attitude, my Atheism on God, and the Book of Fiction ?

Can you Not see the Contempt in my words ??
Do you think that it will change or get Worse ?

I highly suggest not,making a deposit into my Ammunition bank... <BG>

Said with all due Respect..

Atheist
No Fear

United States

#9 Jan 7, 2008
Thanks A!

If I said anything about R. Dawkins..........without reading his books.......(for a example).........how would I fairly comment about him. I would be the one without the information I needed.

I guess what I don't understand..........I am a Christian..........who is taught to spread the Good News (Jesus)...

Is that what Atheist are against...or dislike.....

If you really believe it to be a book of fiction....why would you need ammunition..........

I am not debating you that the books Cinderella........The Three Bears......Hansel and Gretel....are not fiction........because I believe them to be.....

I am going to make a assumption.....with you...

...it's about the dislike of people who believe in God and not so much the issue of God existence.

Am I right?

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#10 Jan 7, 2008
Hello

No Fear...

Again,, Christian Logic is Stunning...

"If I said anything about R. Dawkins..........without reading his books.......(for a example).........how would I fairly comment about him. I would be the one without the information I needed."

That would All depend...

If you've formed an opinion on Dawkins from reading a page of his work,, then it's your right to form an opinion..

I've formed an opinion on the bible already..
I know All I need to know, I have made what I consider an Informed Opinion on the matter..I'm Satisfied with what I know about the bible, however if for any reason I need more information from the bible I will seek it out...

Again I refer back to Britney Spears. I don't need to listen to the entire album library to realize her music is Crap..

Your Argument is One sided No Fear...

If I said to you..

Don't Judge Metallic, Lamb of God, Korn, Judist Priest, Iron Maiden,Pantera Black Sabbath, Ozzy (Who I admire Greatly BTW) by what other people tell you,, You have to listen to them All,,the Enire Album Library before you can form an Opinion, not to mention reading the Koran or the Satanists Handbook,, or Any written word,, What would you say ??

You wouldn't be so Eager...

All I'm saying is that I've formed an Opinion on the book of fiction that is Heavily supported by my Atheist Belief...

"I guess what I don't understand..........I am a Christian..........who is taught to spread the Good News (Jesus)..."

Yes,, that is Exactly why you Don't understand.. Why No Christian or other Sect of Religion can understand a Non Belief in their Deity or Religious teachings...
You've pegged it in a Nutshell my Dear No Fear...

You will Never understand until you take an Atheistic View..

"Is that what Atheist are against...or dislike.....
If you really believe it to be a book of fiction...."

No,, not that we are Against it,, or Against it's people..

We Don't Believe in a Deity, and we Don't much like the Arrogance surrounding the Christian Stand on a Deity..

From your point of view it's Christianity or the Highway..

Isn't that Correct ??

"why would you need ammunition"

To further back our disbelief...

"I am not debating you that the books Cinderella........The Three Bears......Hansel and Gretel....are not fiction........because I believe them to be....."

But your going to Argue whether or not the Bible is fiction ??

Theres some pretty Incredible things happening in there... you Believe them to be Fact ?? All of them ??

Answer Carefully my Dear...

"I am going to make a assumption.....with you...
...it's about the dislike of people who believe in God and not so much the issue of God existence.
Am I right?"

Please don't Assume Anything...

I Do Not have a dislike for Christian people.. My Entire Family, Excluding my Father and my Children are Christians,, All of them,, except for maybe one other a Neice,, that I'm getting agnostic or Atheist vibes from..

I love them ALL very dearly..

I also have a lot of friends who are Christian, and hold them all in the same regard..
I also know of at least 3-4 pastors that I have a Great deal of respect for. If I pass a cleryman on the street or in the hall I smile say Hello and never once do I think of them badly...

I'm in a Christian organisation for Christ's Sake..I treat them all with respect..

However on the other hand,, I wonder how they would feel of me if they knew I was a Die Hard Atheist ??

I wonder if they'd treat me any Different, or talk badly of me behind my back..

I guess I'll Never know will I ?!

Thanks No Fear..

Atheist

No Fear

United States

#11 Jan 7, 2008
A..........you have made good points!.........That I can't agrue..........but I know that your family would love you even if you told them you were a Athiest..........I like you and have never meet you personnally and I have heard you say all you would like to say a more....lol.

You are a Spark-Plug today..........you must be feeling alot better!

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe/God

#12 Jan 7, 2008
QMAX21 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a very good point dude! I love it when people try to write on something THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT! That's like me dismissing calculus as foolish even though I never took a class on it! Atheists is committing the same fallacy he accuses Christians of, namely accepting or not accepting a literary work based on one's opinion! This is a circular fallacy.
And you're post makes no sense and just a flat out delusion if you think it has any logic in it at all.

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#13 Jan 7, 2008
Hello

No Fear..

Thank you for your kind words...

As for my family..

I'm sure they would love me...

However...

As with in families,, you know how most of them work..Theres Alot of back stabbing even in the best of families...

I won't have my children suffer, so I can get my Atheism off my chest...

There is more to consider than just me!

Same with in my Community,, and what I do for a living..

I deal with a Great amount of people both in my private life and in my business life.

I'am Highly respected and well know for my work, Worldwide. I have clients in high positions in media, the military and various US G-ment agencies..

Do you think I'm going to risk my future and my children's future if it was widely know I was an Atheist ??

I don't know,, but I Certainlynot going to risk even one customer because of it...

If someone asks, I would Possibly be truthful depending on who it was, but I wouldn't want it widely know either on a personal or business level...

Maybe I'm making too much of it,, but I'm Absolutely not going to risk it...

I do know that Many of my customers are Christians, many of them are in Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak...

I need their business and their continued support of my business!!

That's Why I won't come out publically as an Atheist..

My circle of friends know, because they are Highly trusted and confidential about these sorts of things..Many of them are in the same sort of business, as well many are Atheists themselves...

I hope you can understand the delicate nature of this...

and Yes,, Thank you my neck is feeling much better,,even after the slip and fall I took Christimas eve on the kitchen Floor!!

Wool socks and a freshly cleaned floor don't go hand in hand!! Nor do Dryer sheets!!

Heed my Warning!!

Best of day to you all...

Atheist
Grace

Archer, FL

#14 Jan 7, 2008
Atheist wrote:
"Many believers have been taught that Scripture is the ultimate measure of truth, never imagining that the bible itself might come under a higher measure of truth, under the scrutiny of reason."
Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith, page 92
The Bible is the foundation of the Christianity. It is viewed by fundamentalist Christians as the crystal pure, clear, infallible word of their god.
They claim that it is absolutely the most wonderful collection of books in the history of the universe, that it is as perfect as any written document could ever be.
My question is this-have they ever read the thing?
I have read the Bible, and it just does not measure up to this sensational billing. In fact, it falls quite short of it. To be perfectly blunt, the books of the Bible are not materially different from other books written during the same time period.
The books of the Bible merely reflect the primitive ideas and questionable morals of the ancient people who wrote them.
All Christians will claim that the Bible was inspired or created by their god in some fashion.
If you ask a Christian specifically why he or she believes this, your query will likely be met with one of the following responses:
"Because it says so."
"Because it shows fulfilled prophecies."
"Because it shows remarkable consistency for a book written over the course of one thousand years by some forty different authors."
"Because it details the perfect teachings and the ultimate sacrifice of our dear Lord Jesus."
"Because it is the ultimate guidebook for life."
One thing I find interesting is when people who claim not to believe in God who spend so much time trying to convince the majority that he does not exist. The majority believes in God and God has made himself known to us, so there is nothing you could EVER do to convince us otherwise.

If you don't believe something, why do you spend time on the topics that have no value to you.

Even those who claim he does not exists secretly know he does, they just feel that can't prove he does.

He has proved himself with creation alone if nothing else. If there was never a Bible.

You have no arguments. I love you and am praying for you though.

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe/God

#15 Jan 7, 2008
No Fear wrote:
It would be a start for you A......since you never read it........only taking or reading others peoples view on something your so against. Why is that? Please don't pull the "because of Christians" card.......
I can't speak for Atheist but there's enough bible verses posted on these forums to keep all non-Christians laughing. It's hysterically funny to see someone throw out an inane verse at someone else to "prove" a point, which is totally meaningless, but they're all puffed up with pride anyway. It's like watching a 3 year say: Grr gaa bla boop ga ga bla de do gee, ha ha ha! Thinking they said something profoundly deep and meaningful, then laugh at you believing they got the upper hand. Geez, who needs to read a whole book of that crap. I read it all the way through, twice, and was a total waste of time.

I just picked out a verse:

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Now there is no way in hell anyone is going to convince me that they're going to attain spiritual enlightenment by reading a whole book of that crap. I'll take the direct guidance God has given me from my soul's journeys to the other side any day. There I get straight answers, not bible gibberish that leaves you thinking, what the...???

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#16 Jan 7, 2008
Hello
Grace...
"One thing I find interesting is when people who claim not to believe in God who spend so much time trying to convince the majority that he does not exist."
Because we are Spreading the Truth!!
Where have you heard that before..
LOL
"The majority believes in God"
For Now....
Theres a Growing Number of Atheists my friend Grace... Maybe an even larger number of Fence Sitters, who are only waiting for the final straw..
One of you could say it at any moment!!
Not to mention the Christian and other religious Defectors.
We unfortunately lose a few to Christianity.. Casulties you could call it...
It's said that onlt 1/3 of the world believes in Christianity...
"and God has made himself known to us, so there is nothing you could EVER do to convince us otherwise."
Of course not...
Not my intentions at all..
"If you don't believe something, why do you spend time on the topics that have no value to you."
Because it keeps me thinking... If I stop thinking,, I may become a Christian..
"ven those who claim he does not exists secretly know he does, they just feel that can't prove he does."
LOL.. Popular Christian Arrogance and misconception..
Not All of us want to be Christian.. We aren't all waiting for the next Christian bus to go by my Dear Grace...
Some of us do enjoy watching them go by though!!
"He has proved himself with creation alone if nothing else."
No he hasn't...
"love you and am praying for you though."
I love you too Grace...(Sincere)
God Bless You
Atheist
Wayne

United States

#17 Jan 7, 2008
I have no problem with Atheists posts other than I disagree 100% with them, as he does with mine. The thing I don't get is Seentheotherside jumping on his band wagon when it is obvious that philosophically they don't match up either. Seen has seen the other side and saw God too. Atheists don't believe in ANY god or belief, do they? SO I think the major thing here is Jesus Christ. You know, you can believe in any god or religion as long a s Christ isn't mentioned. Just like HE said 2,000 years ago.
Wayne

United States

#18 Jan 7, 2008
Grace wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing I find interesting is when people who claim not to believe in God who spend so much time trying to convince the majority that he does not exist. The majority believes in God and God has made himself known to us, so there is nothing you could EVER do to convince us otherwise.
If you don't believe something, why do you spend time on the topics that have no value to you.
Even those who claim he does not exists secretly know he does, they just feel that can't prove he does.
He has proved himself with creation alone if nothing else. If there was never a Bible.
You have no arguments. I love you and am praying for you though.
Because all atheists love to be the center of attention. They don't believe in anything other than themselves so they have to be the sun and everything rotates around THEM. They don't want God stealing any of their glory. Sad when you think about it.
Grace

Archer, FL

#19 Jan 7, 2008
Atheist wrote:
Hello
Grace...
"One thing I find interesting is when people who claim not to believe in God who spend so much time trying to convince the majority that he does not exist."
Because we are Spreading the Truth!!
Where have you heard that before..
LOL
"The majority believes in God"
For Now....
Theres a Growing Number of Atheists my friend Grace... Maybe an even larger number of Fence Sitters, who are only waiting for the final straw..
One of you could say it at any moment!!
Not to mention the Christian and other religious Defectors.
We unfortunately lose a few to Christianity.. Casulties you could call it...
It's said that onlt 1/3 of the world believes in Christianity...
"and God has made himself known to us, so there is nothing you could EVER do to convince us otherwise."
Of course not...
Not my intentions at all..
"If you don't believe something, why do you spend time on the topics that have no value to you."
Because it keeps me thinking... If I stop thinking,, I may become a Christian..
"ven those who claim he does not exists secretly know he does, they just feel that can't prove he does."
LOL.. Popular Christian Arrogance and misconception..
Not All of us want to be Christian.. We aren't all waiting for the next Christian bus to go by my Dear Grace...
Some of us do enjoy watching them go by though!!
"He has proved himself with creation alone if nothing else."
No he hasn't...
"love you and am praying for you though."
I love you too Grace...(Sincere)
God Bless You
Atheist
Who cares about the growing number of who don't believe. The number who believes is even greater.

God is going to make himself known really soon btw. He has been planning something for a long time..and all who see will believe.

I love you too and him even more.

“Atheist and Proud !”

Since: Nov 07

Ontario,Canada

#20 Jan 7, 2008
Hello

Grace...

"Who cares about the growing number of who don't believe."

Lots of people Do...I do...

"The number who believes is even greater."

Sorry...

If you are talking worldwide numbers Christian God Believers are only 1/3 of the worlds population..

2/3 of the worlds population believes in another God, form of Religion, or No God..

That puts you in the minority Sweetie!!

"God is going to make himself known really soon btw."

So I've Heard..
LOL

"He has been planning something for a long time.."

Sounds like a Terrorist plotto me !!
Should Really Report it !!

"and all who see will believe."

Yup,, you are all going to be called up to Heaven,, Naked..
Won't that be Embarrassing for those of you that haven't been taking care of the temple!!

"I love you too and him even more"

Thank you, God Bless Grace

Atheist

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 13
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Intelligent People Question Everything (Sep '16) 38 min Blacklagoon 2,557
No One Needs Moral Standards From God 52 min Blacklagoon 35
Cookie's Place (Oct '13) 1 hr Cats paw 21,201
Can Someone Please Explain Luke 17:34 for me? (May '10) 1 hr Hamilton Square 79
Predestination, All Things are Determined by God 2 hr Hamilton Square 90
The Tzniut, Wives and Head Coverings 2 hr Hamilton Square 13
Forum has gone to the dogs 2 hr Cats paw 210
Science And Discoveries To The Rescue 3 hr Cats paw 118
What laws and teachings fall under the new cove... (Sep '15) 3 hr Cats paw 107
More from around the web