Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 | Posted by: SongBookz | Full story: news.yahoo.com

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

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#15812
May 28, 2013
 

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Stan53 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't need to prove He exists, I KNOW. You on the other hand DON'T, therefore you demand proof. Sorry but as I said He doesn't need to PROVE Himself to you or anyone. You KNOW He exists but just won't admit it. Your quandary, NOT mine.
In the same paragraph, you first claim he does NOT know God exists, and then you claim he DOES know God exists but won't admit it.
Both your claims cannot be true.
So which claim is true, and which is a lie?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

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#15813
May 28, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
My honesty only confirms my adherence to truth. You have never expressed that character.
You are comparing the legal practice of two societies in two different time periods.
Wrong. One was the legal practices of today's secular society. The other was, according to the Bible, the legal practices handed down to the Hebrews by God himself. Man came up with one, God came up with the other. Which is morally superior? For that matter, if you can't bring yourself to admit that it's morally repugnant to marry one's daughter to her rapist after accepting a few bucks from the guy, at least you can admit that your God should have been capable of giving them laws that weren't morally repugnant. Your God was capable of telling them to do something other than marrying their daughter to her rapist in exchange for money, or telling them not to own other people as property. You must admit that your God was capable of these things, yes?
KiMare wrote:
For it's time, that law was morally superior to any available alternative. Especially if the rape resulted in pregnancy.
Irrelevant. Was your God capable of issuing MORALLY PERFECT laws? Were people too stupid to obey God's laws if they were perfect, and they could only manage to follow morally reprehensible laws? What, exactly, was the point of giving them laws that, at best, would have only been marginally better than the slightly more savage shit the other societies nearby were doing? God couldn't just tell them to do things they REALLY ought to do, and instead saw fit only to give them laws that were incrementally a bit better than those of their neighbors? REALLY? Your God couldn't hold them to a standard any higher than just a little better than the savages next door?
KiMare wrote:
However, another factor is that sexual activity is morally limited within marriage. Since the female was no longer a virgin, her opportunity for marriage was severely limited, putting her at great risk. It was the best solution available.
Right. So, your God didn't bother telling them, "Hey, guys, you've got to stop acting as though a female's only value is between her legs. Women are people, too. For that matter, so are people of other societies, and you should treat them all like equals." No...instead, your God merely perpetuated the morally deficient misogyny and xenophobia and slavery that were already part of that society. Almost as if it wasn't some morally superior source that was giving the laws, but rather a post hoc rationalization and justification for those horrible prejudices and practices.
KiMare wrote:
You showed up nothing.
Wrong. I showed up your ignorance of your own holy book. And, now you don't have the stones to admit it. You admitted error, but you can't admit that I demonstrated any greater degree of knowledge or understanding of it than you have. Your dick won't shrink just because you admit your ignorance. How can you claim to believe everything in a book that you don't even know the contents of?
KiMare wrote:
The presence of matter is evidence of God.
Wrong. The presence of matter is a fact, and our understanding of the laws of physics explains the presence of matter. If you think it's evidence of the existence of God, you have to first define your God, then explain how the presence of matter serves as evidence of God's existence without employing logical fallacies or making shit up. Good luck with that.
KiMare wrote:
Everything we know and do is based on the fact that Nature operates by laws. The fact that people deny those laws exist in morality is evidence of evil.
Nature doesn't operate by laws. Nature is, and the way nature works is described by man in mathematical and scientific terms by laws, and explained by theories. Conflating scientific laws and legal laws is a logical fallacy called equivocation. Please learn how to form a logical argument. PLEASE.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

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#15814
May 28, 2013
 
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that a culture exists as long as Judaism, has survived the consistent, concentrated abuse, and has done so distinguishing itself so profoundly, is clear evidence that the Alien who gave the Laws and predicted the result, represents a god in the true sense of the word.
How long did the Greeks have their pantheon of gods? Until their Gods were supplanted by someone else's deity or deities, would that long run have proven that their gods were true? The Greeks were the founders of civilization. Doesn't that prove that their gods were the real deal? They brought about grand and novel concepts, like democracy, and the body politic, and physics, and advanced mathematics, and philosophy to degrees never before known. How can you deny this as proof that their gods were real?

That's your argument. Stuff happened, therefore God. When you have something substantive to offer, let us know. You're too full of logical fallacies to take seriously. Unfortunately, that doesn't disqualify people from being able to vote.

“What Goes Around, Comes Around”

Since: Mar 07

Kansas City, MO.

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#15815
May 28, 2013
 
Troth for Leogere wrote:
They (the churches) reap everything they sow.
Guess it just didn't work the way they wanted it to..
SPOT ON!

Since: Jul 10

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#15816
May 28, 2013
 
Stan53 wrote:
<quoted text>
Acknowledging what God says is WRONG, is NOT judging but of course you don't like God telling you, but you can't tell Him off because you don't accept or believe Him so you do the next best thing. It is meaningless to me as I know I'm NOT judging you, ONLY God judges.
If I see you go through a red light, I can say you are guilty of breaking the law and that doesn't have ANY impact on you until an ACTUAL judge find you guilty. You can deny all you want what I KNOW but you won't be able to deny God. Ultimately He will confirm His Word and laws.
It is obvious you have NO idea what a hypocrite actually is, until you look in a mirror.
Stan, I am not sure whether I have seen or posted to you before, and I just caught a few words of that post, but if you are making a statement about God, I hope you are assuming that we are reading that is 'what you believe' about God, rather than you are actually stating 'what God is or does', because no human being even knows if God exists. That is a 100% true statement that can't be refuted, or at least has not yet been in the hundreds of thousands or millions of years of human existence.

“praying for you!”

Since: Mar 13

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Troth for Leogere wrote:
They (the churches) reap everything they sow.
Guess it just didn't work the way they wanted it to..
what on earth do you mean? the church is ever growing.
you can't deter the plan of God simply with the passing of immoral man made laws.
God will have the last word.

“praying for you!”

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#15819
May 28, 2013
 

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Daniel P from Long Island wrote:
i VOTE for dividing churches !
:)
The TRUE church (which takes its authority from the scriptures) will never fold and it will be the only church that endures to the end.

Apostate churches will fall by the wayside.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

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#15820
May 28, 2013
 

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Walterwalter wrote:
<quoted text>
what on earth do you mean? the church is ever growing.
you can't deter the plan of God simply with the passing of immoral man made laws.
God will have the last word.
It ain't growing as fast as Islam. That means, if math still works, Islam will overtake Christianity in popularity. Will that make Islam true? If not, who gives a shit about the popularity of Christianity?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

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May 28, 2013
 

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Walterwalter wrote:
<quoted text>
The TRUE church (which takes its authority from the scriptures) will never fold and it will be the only church that endures to the end.
Apostate churches will fall by the wayside.
Prove it's true.

Do it, and you'll be the first person in the history of ever to do so for their religion.

By the way, which sect is the TRUE church?
Thinking

Hounslow, UK

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#15822
May 28, 2013
 
Hello my tiny todgered tribute troll, can you explain why your god is so obsessed by the bottoms of our species?
Thinking wrote:
Leviticus 18:22
King James Version (KJV)
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15823
May 28, 2013
 
Stan53 wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you will have NO excuse when He judges you as a sinner and condemns you to eternal judgment.
Then it is a good thing that I am without sin.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15824
May 28, 2013
 

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razzmatazz wrote:
<quoted text>LOL, really? show us proof.
Wow. You have not paid any attention to anything that has gone on before, have you?

For a quick answer, go read Deuteronomy. It spells out that the Covenant between the God of the Bible and the children of Israel is an ETERNAL covenant, that the Laws spelled out in the Torah are to be followed FOR EVER, that the children of Israel are to NEVER worship anything in the shape of a man (like Jesus, for example) and several other things that combine to prove that xianity is a complete non-starter.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15825
May 28, 2013
 
Stan53 wrote:
<quoted text>
The God of Isaac IS the one true God. He manifested Himself, became incarnated, in Jesus Christ, in whom I have the utmost faith, so I guess I'm not an infidel. I KNOW what you obviously don't know or understand.
But He was the God of the children of Israel only. If He had really been the one true God for all mankind, then He would have taught all mankind how to obey Him. Then too, if He was the "One True God" (tm) then He would have had no problem defeating chariots of iron...

Judges 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15826
May 28, 2013
 
Stan53 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you not claim to be Muslim? If you did then you must know what Muslims believe?
Just because you know some vernacular of logic, obviously does not mean you know HOW to use them. If the Bible is right, nothing else can be. It's called a declarative statement. Basic math knowledge shows this.
"If the Bible is right..."

That is a big "if". Since there are points that clearly demonstrate that the Bible is NOT 100% factual, that brings into question all of the rest. Of course, things like the "new" testament can be dismissed out of hand for contradiction the foundational statements.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15827
May 28, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no evidence God said anything, because first it must be demonstrated that God exists to rationally justify the belief that God said anything.
Bigfoot said you'd respond with something stupid. Go ahead, prove bigfoot right.
If you keep on talking about Bigfoot that way, he's gonna complain to Santa, and you will end up with only coal in your stocking...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15828
May 28, 2013
 

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Stan53 wrote:
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Actually I did sweetie and I commented. You obviously are too busy trolling to read responses. What makes you think I care one iota about a religious tolerance group based out of Ontario? They are probably ALL humanists, and further more their opinion is WRONG.
Furthermore, as you don't live by Biblical principles or by God's principles then trying to use them is not just hypocritical but meaningless as far as I'm concerned.
In other words, you have made up your "mind", and reality has no bearing on your opinion...

"A Christian has two options with regard to the Christian Scriptures (New Testament):

1. To accept a favorite English translation as accurately containing the words of the original authors. This is a simple and straightforward approach because biblical passages related to lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgender persons and transsexuals (LGBT) in English Bibles are universally condemning. No further effort is needed.

2. To base the interpretation of these passages on the most ancient available Greek manuscripts of 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy. These is as close as we are able to get to the original autograph copies written by the author(s). This option is much more demanding, and made even more difficult because the precise meaning of some of the Greek words are unknown and can only be inferred. Even worse, a convincing case can be made that 1 Timothy was written by a second century forger, many decades after Paul was executed."
From here:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/homarsen.ht...

Only one of these options seeks to know and follow the words and intentions of the author...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15829
May 28, 2013
 
Stan53 wrote:
<quoted text>
Acknowledging what God says is WRONG, is NOT judging but of course you don't like God telling you, but you can't tell Him off because you don't accept or believe Him so you do the next best thing. It is meaningless to me as I know I'm NOT judging you, ONLY God judges.
If I see you go through a red light, I can say you are guilty of breaking the law and that doesn't have ANY impact on you until an ACTUAL judge find you guilty. You can deny all you want what I KNOW but you won't be able to deny God. Ultimately He will confirm His Word and laws.
It is obvious you have NO idea what a hypocrite actually is, until you look in a mirror.
The problem here is that going through a red light IS wrong, but the Bible never condemns homosexuality, especially in light of the fact that it actually CELEBRATES the marriage of David and Johnathan.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#15830
May 28, 2013
 

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KiMare wrote:
The presence of matter is evidence of God.
Everything we know and do is based on the fact that Nature operates by laws. The fact that people deny those laws exist in morality is evidence of evil.
Ah, no. Wrong again...

The presence of matter shows the presence of matter. Quantum physics explains this without any need to appeal to any Deus ex machina.
Thinking

Kennesaw, GA

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#15831
May 28, 2013
 

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Thinking wrote:
Hello my tiny todgered tribute troll, can you explain why your god is so obsessed by the bottoms of our species?
<quoted text>
There is no hope for you, but then again, you don't have a soul.

There is no point arguing with a troll about a book they dont belive in yet they choose to come on a forum for Christians whine and b!tch about it.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#15832
May 28, 2013
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. One was the legal practices of today's secular society. The other was, according to the Bible, the legal practices handed down to the Hebrews by God himself. Man came up with one, God came up with the other. Which is morally superior? For that matter, if you can't bring yourself to admit that it's morally repugnant to marry one's daughter to her rapist after accepting a few bucks from the guy, at least you can admit that your God should have been capable of giving them la..those horrible prejudices and practices.
<quoted text>
Wrong. I showed up your ignorance of your own holy book. And, now you don't have the stones to admit it. You admitted error, but you can't admit that I demonstrated any greater degree of knowledge or understanding of it than you have. Your dick won't shrink just because you admit your ignorance. How can you claim to believe everything in a book that you don't even know the contents of?
<quoted text>
Wrong. The presence of matter is a fact, and our understanding of the laws of physics explains the presence of matter. If you think it's evidence of the existence of God, you have to first define your God, then explain how the presence of matter serves as evidence of God's existence without employing logical fallacies or making shit up. Good luck with that.
<quoted text>
Nature doesn't operate by laws. Nature is, and the way nature works is described by man in mathematical and scientific terms by laws, and explained by theories. Conflating scientific laws and legal laws is a logical fallacy called equivocation. Please learn how to form a logical argument. PLEASE.
You act as if that was God's only guidance regarding sex. Marriage is God's ideal. Everything else is dealing with the consequences of violating that ideal. For it's time, it was the perfect morality for the reasons I stated.

Moreover, a 'dowery' was not ownership.

Even more idiotic is your twisted condemnation of the honor God's law established in the face of rape. If modern morality is so much more effective, why did sexual assault increase 30% last year in our disciplined military (40% were male assualts)? Are you really wanting to compare the view and value of females in our society with the view then?

What you clearly show is not just bigotry, but also the ignorance it is rooted in. That is not just about the Bible, but also about sexuality.

I didn't dispute the presence of matter, I noted how it could exist out of nothing. I surmise that the presence of anything denotes a 'presence'. How do surmise the presence of anything?

As to nature's laws, you simply sounded like a contradicting idiot. Nor was I talking about legal laws, however, that is another area you seek to manipulate while denying the existence of moral laws.

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