Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Apr 27, 2009 | Posted by: SongBookz | Full story: news.yahoo.com

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Deuteronomy 18:10
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the <<<fire,>>> who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
The Jews are forbidden to have anyone "pass through fire," a practice that Zoroastrianism used and adopted.
Zoroastrian dualism was very old in Persia, and influenced the thought of the Stoic philosophers of Greece.

Saul was educated at University to be a lawyer. Logic, Platonic Aristotelian governmental theory, and other thought systems were a compulsory part of a legal education.

Saul was a lawyer, ya know. That's how he earned his Roman citizenship. "Tentmaker" is a Koine slang for "lawyer". Saul's followers even play with the imagery when they write about being protected from judgement by being "covered" or clothed by christ's ("casula" "little house or closet", "Omaphorion" in Greek, "Tallit Gadol" in Hebrew) righteousness. He's "got ya covered". lol

Of course, all this is unnecessary in the non-dualistic message of Yeshua.

When a person walks in the door, his shadow is still attached to his heels, and it colors everything he thinks and hears. He will assess and understand everything through the lenses of experience, prior beliefs and the prevailing, pervasive culture.

Gentile converts just "didn't get" Judaism ... any more than you do, it seems.

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Jeff wrote:
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It was a bodily resurrection. They could touch His body and He ate food. All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
That is just the Saulian heresy.
Truth

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LowellGuy wrote:
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How did Zoroastrianism borrow from Christianity when it predates Christianity by centuries? Did they have a time machine, travel to the future, borrow from Christianity hundreds of years later, then go back in time to create their religion using what they learned from the future? Or, are you an ignorant halftard?
Zoroastrianism may resemble something of Christianity on the surface, but a close comparison of the two will reveal the contradictory differences between them.

Worship in Zoroastrianism is legalistic and impersonal, reflecting the view of its impersonal god, Ahura-Mazda.

Apples vs oranges....

Man-made doctrine vs. God's unique revelation of Himself....

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#12236
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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Zoroastrianism may resemble something of Christianity on the surface, but a close comparison of the two will reveal the contradictory differences between them.
Worship in Zoroastrianism is legalistic and impersonal, reflecting the view of its impersonal god, Ahura-Mazda.
Apples vs oranges....
Man-made doctrine vs. God's unique revelation of Himself....
You are completely missing the point by misplacing concreteness.

The point is a dualistic view of things. The primary proponent of that in ancient, B.C. times were the Zoroastrians. THEY influenced the thinking of the common person along the trade routes, the Greeks, etc. The Greeks OBLIVIOUSLY and EVIDENTLY influenced Saul as demonstrated in his writings and those of his followers ... mostly gentiles in the Hellenized regions of the eastern Mediterranean. They also influenced the thought of a LOT of non-canonical Hebrew writers.

Try to remember that Israel and Judea were conquered by Alexander the Great, too. This expanded intercultural influences that rocked Judean life and thought, exposing them to far more than just what passed through on the trade route between the Eastern metropolises and Egypt.

You DO realize that Judea was situated smack on the juncture between no less than six such trade routes, and extant surviving writings clearly demonstrate that the Hebrew-Aramaic (itself evidence of outside influence) speakers speakers were no where near as parochial as yourself.
Truth

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snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Zoroastrian dualism was very old in Persia, and influenced the thought of the Stoic philosophers of Greece.
Saul was educated at University to be a lawyer. Logic, Platonic Aristotelian governmental theory, and other thought systems were a compulsory part of a legal education.
Saul was a lawyer, ya know. That's how he earned his Roman citizenship. "Tentmaker" is a Koine slang for "lawyer". Saul's followers even play with the imagery when they write about being protected from judgement by being "covered" or clothed by christ's ("casula" "little house or closet", "Omaphorion" in Greek, "Tallit Gadol" in Hebrew) righteousness. He's "got ya covered". lol
Of course, all this is unnecessary in the non-dualistic message of Yeshua.
When a person walks in the door, his shadow is still attached to his heels, and it colors everything he thinks and hears. He will assess and understand everything through the lenses of experience, prior beliefs and the prevailing, pervasive culture.
Gentile converts just "didn't get" Judaism ... any more than you do, it seems.
Paul was schooled in the Mishna.

He was taught by Gamaliel.

He was an exceptional student of the Law and the traditions.

He excelled above his contemporaries in Judaism.

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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul was schooled in the Mishna.
He was taught by Gamaliel.
He was an exceptional student of the Law and the traditions.
He excelled above his contemporaries in Judaism.
Where?

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#12239
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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Zoroastrianism may resemble something of Christianity on the surface, but a close comparison of the two will reveal the contradictory differences between them.
Worship in Zoroastrianism is legalistic and impersonal, reflecting the view of its impersonal god, Ahura-Mazda.
Apples vs oranges....
Man-made doctrine vs. God's unique revelation of Himself....
It's all man-made doctrine. How can you say otherwise?

“No Allah: know peace”

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#12240
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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
You have been lied to.....
Satan rules over the world....
God is Spirit.....not, physical....
1 John 5:19
19 We know that we are children of God, and that the <<<<<whole world is under the control of the evil one.>>>>>
Funny thing, but the Bible insists on a monotheistic world view that has no room for an evil Deity. For there to be a Satan that rules this world, he would have to be a God, even if one subservient to the God of the Bible. Of course, the Bible makes it clear that ALL evil comes from the God of the Bible...

Isaiah 45:7 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (YHVH) do all these things.

“No Allah: know peace”

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#12241
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Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is no bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are in trouble!
Redemption is vain - "faith is vain."
Remission is void "yet in your sins....."
There is no redeemed life in us unless there is a risen life.
You post yet more foolishness.

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
43:11 I, even I, am the LORD (YHVH); and beside me there is no saviour.

Note carefully, that was Yahweh, the God of the Bible, not some dead Jewish preacher who pissed off the Romans.

“No Allah: know peace”

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LowellGuy wrote:
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And that all assumes the Bible is true.
Fortunately, we all know that it's not, and that the Koran is the only true religious text, and that Allah is the one true God, and Mohammed is his prophet.
I'd rather see that the Kama Sutra was true...

“No Allah: know peace”

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Jaredb8 wrote:
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By your logic we should ban restaurants from serving meat on Fridays during lent too? Se how ridiculous that sounds!!
And any restaurant that dares serve shrimp or pork must be burned to the ground!

“No Allah: know peace”

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Jeff wrote:
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Where is your evidence that the authors of the Bible borrowed from Zoroastrianism? Do you have specific examples for us to examine so we can see if this is true or not? After all, why should we trust you has been shown to be ignorant of these things?
The whole concept of a Satan was borrowed. A true monotheism does not have any room for an adversary Deity, everything, good or evil comes from the same source.

“No Allah: know peace”

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WasteWater wrote:
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"First, the figure of Satan, originally a servant of God, appointed by Him as His prosecutor, came more and more to resemble Ahriman, the enemy of God. Secondly, the figure of the Messiah, originally a future King of Israel who would save his people from oppression, evolved, in Deutero-Isaiah for instance, into a universal Savior very similar to the Iranian Saoshyant. Other points of comparison between Iran and Israel include the doctrine of the millennia; the Last Judgment; the heavenly book in which human actions are inscribed; the Resurrection; the final transformation of the earth; paradise on earth or in heaven; and hell." by J.
http://www.zarathushtra.com/z/article/influen...
Oh, fine. Just give away all the details all at once and spoil the ending.
Jeff

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Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole concept of a Satan was borrowed. A true monotheism does not have any room for an adversary Deity, everything, good or evil comes from the same source.
Where is the evidence for it?

“What, me worry?”

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#12247
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Jeff wrote:
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Where is the evidence for it?
Right next to the evidence that your God exists.
Jeff

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LowellGuy wrote:
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Right next to the evidence that your God exists.
And that's right next to the evidence for evolution is true.

DNF

“Liberty AND Justice”

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It doesn't matter if you're gay, straight, jew or gentile, Catholic or Protestant, Hindu, Sikh or Muslim, Buddhist Taoist Atheist or agnostic. Rock n' roll, R&B, funk, dance, electronica, jazz, country or western. Black, white Hispanic or Asian. This marriage proposal might make you cry.

And anyone who even SNIFFLES watching this can't deny they don't understand SAME SEX MARRIAGE isn't any different than what they see here in this AWESOME proposal (I love how he just kneels and waits for her answer, never says a word. I'm So Jealous)

It ain't the equipment any of us (gay or straight) want to commit to. It's the person INSIDE the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a bodily resurrection. They could touch His body and He ate food. All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
Jeff: "All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19

Regardless of what you believe will befall me, I don't think it is true that resurrection pertains to physical bodies, ie., dead ones, rising.
And in scripture, more often than not, the Truth MUST be discerned from what men misunderstand it to be.
For instance, 1 Cor 15:13 "But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not risen."
This is false nonesense - it contradicts Christ's divinity!
Because whether there is or isn't, for men, a resurrection of their dead, it would in no way bear on what's possible for Christ!
You've got an entirely wrong take on resurrection.
Dead bodies don't get resurrected!
Christ's BODY didn't rise from the dead, CHRIST HIMSELF DID! It was Christ, His I Am, Who had arisen from death, NOT His corpse.
What His Resurrection was meant to demonstrate and tell us is, WE WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST when OUR bodies die....just as He didn't.
And despite many Christians believing it so, their dead bodies will NOT be resurrected, nor do ONLY Christians go to Heaven. And they certainly don't go BECAUSE they're Christians.
If your faith in Christ can be shaken, it's because Christ is not REAL to you.
If He were REAL to you, your faith wouldn't BE shakeable. Nothing could shake it.
Truth

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#12251
Apr 4, 2013
 
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff: "All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
Regardless of what you believe will befall me, I don't think it is true that resurrection pertains to physical bodies, ie., dead ones, rising.
And in scripture, more often than not, the Truth MUST be discerned from what men misunderstand it to be.
For instance, 1 Cor 15:13 "But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not risen."
This is false nonesense - it contradicts Christ's divinity!
Because whether there is or isn't, for men, a resurrection of their dead, it would in no way bear on what's possible for Christ!
You've got an entirely wrong take on resurrection.
Dead bodies don't get resurrected!
Christ's BODY didn't rise from the dead, CHRIST HIMSELF DID! It was Christ, His I Am, Who had arisen from death, NOT His corpse.
What His Resurrection was meant to demonstrate and tell us is, WE WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST when OUR bodies die....just as He didn't.
And despite many Christians believing it so, their dead bodies will NOT be resurrected, nor do ONLY Christians go to Heaven. And they certainly don't go BECAUSE they're Christians.
If your faith in Christ can be shaken, it's because Christ is not REAL to you.
If He were REAL to you, your faith wouldn't BE shakeable. Nothing could shake it.
Without the valid hope of the resurrection, there is only hopelessness left.

"If the dead are not raised,'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

That pretty much sums up the only reasonable perspective on life possible on the part of those who believe not in "the resurrection and the life."

"But now Christ has been raised from the dead; the first fruits of those who are asleep."

This is our hope and assurance.

The unbeliever has nothing to compare!

"Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
Truth

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#12252
Apr 4, 2013
 
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff: "All point to a physical body resurrection. To deny this, is to condemn yourself since it would mean that He really did not rise from the dead. I Cor 15:13-19
Regardless of what you believe will befall me, I don't think it is true that resurrection pertains to physical bodies, ie., dead ones, rising.
And in scripture, more often than not, the Truth MUST be discerned from what men misunderstand it to be.
For instance, 1 Cor 15:13 "But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not risen."
This is false nonesense - it contradicts Christ's divinity!
Because whether there is or isn't, for men, a resurrection of their dead, it would in no way bear on what's possible for Christ!
You've got an entirely wrong take on resurrection.
Dead bodies don't get resurrected!
Christ's BODY didn't rise from the dead, CHRIST HIMSELF DID! It was Christ, His I Am, Who had arisen from death, NOT His corpse.
What His Resurrection was meant to demonstrate and tell us is, WE WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST when OUR bodies die....just as He didn't.
And despite many Christians believing it so, their dead bodies will NOT be resurrected, nor do ONLY Christians go to Heaven. And they certainly don't go BECAUSE they're Christians.
If your faith in Christ can be shaken, it's because Christ is not REAL to you.
If He were REAL to you, your faith wouldn't BE shakeable. Nothing could shake it.
Resurrection....ABSOLUTELY!!!

Isaiah 26:19

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

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