Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16102 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10747 Mar 21, 2013
janeebee wrote:
<quoted text>
Liam: "So, there are only two possibilities: God lied when He said that the Laws are for ever, or Paul lied when he said that people can ignore the Laws."
OR,... could it be Moses mistakenly THOUGHT the Laws God had given him to deal with his immediate situation were forevermore enacted?
I hope you don't mind my suggesting a third possibility.
You left out the possibility (well, historical fact, really) that "Moses" was invented by one of the later kings of Judah, along with the whole "Torah" thing as a way to try and unite Judah and Israel under a common religious banner...

However, for rhetorical purposes, I work under the assumption that, if there is any Divine inspiration for ANY of the Bible, then it logically proceeds that the Torah MUST be inspired, or NONE of it hold any meaning.

After all, the New Testament bases its claims on the prophets of the Old Testament. The prophecies of the OT base their validity on the teachings of the Torah, and the Torah claims validity for being the words of Moses as inspired by the God of the Bible. If the Torah is not true, then nothing in the Bible is true.
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#10748 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't practice sin "resident" I can't and call myself a Christian. Do you? Like I said when I do something wrong I know it and I repent. It is clear you want to pick a fight with me so give it your best shot....... the Lord has my back. You know not what spirit uses you.
don't try to down play your messing up. sin is sin. it needs no practice. God does not back you while you are sinning. I open myself to God's will, no other spirit can stake claim on me. God sees your sins even when you do not.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10749 Mar 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think you can post something I haven't read at least 10 times already?
You're wrong, on more than one level. Just the tone of your posts is wrong. The arrogance in speaking for God is wrong. The assumption that you know God's Word or wish is wrong.
I understand life is easier for you if you choose to believe the bible of your choosing is the intact, inerrant, 100% accurate Word of God. It isn't.
God could have chosen to protect the bible intact, and He didn't. You have to ask yourself why.
I was never lost. I was never a druggie. I didn't have to hit bottom to come to God. I was always a good kid. I always felt close to God. And I learned gradually to trust Him for everything. Faith is its own reward.
The notion that I wanted to or chose to be gay is beyond impossible.
Some of the regulars here are probably sick of hearing my story, but at that age, 12 years old, totally innocent, smart, never in trouble, naïve kid - I prayed for God to break my legs instead of making me gay - if He had to give me some kind of challenge, I wanted an easier one.
I have lived a prayerful life since I was a child - to the point it's unusual. How many little kids voluntarily read the bible from cover to cover, and refuse to allow themselves to read anything else until they finish?(Lord, "Numbers" is tedious.)
I have prayed for many things. In some way or another, the thing was always addressed somehow - maybe not the way I expected, but I felt they were "answered."
Yet I prayed for the next 12 years - from age 12 to 24 - for God to spare me this. I was more serious than you will ever be about anything in your life. During that time, I had no relationship with men of any kind. I lived in total denial. So it was not like I was trying to stop a behavior or habit. Whether or not I ever acted on it, I was gay. I always will be gay.
While I was, again, never "lost" or separate from God, those years were my furthest from Him in one respect: fighting Him about the way He made me was a deficiency in my faith.
And it's a deficiency in yours.
I am the authority on this subject between you and me. You are just guessing.
I appreciate your up front testimony....

You wrote:

I always will be gay.

How do you know that God won't send an angel, a dream, or someone into your life to show you otherwise???

God NEVER changes but man can....esp when it comes to OBEYING God....

God can prick your heart/conscience to change in a second...

Many people deplore hard preaching that may prick their consciences, but rather cry:

Isaiah 30:10

10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

They demand <smooth things> that will lull them into a spiritual sleep.

To those who are guilty of some sin that sin needs to be pointed out and specifically condemned when there is need.

As sin separates us from God.

Tony....you are 'living according to the flesh' vs.'living in the Spirit'....reason often vanishes when weighed against lust and self-gratification.

Galatians 5:19-21

19 ~~~The acts of the flesh are obvious:~~~ sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions

21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Think about it!
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#10750 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
Tony said> That's not true. You don't know some of the times when you mess up. Not only do you not repent for it, you proudly repeat it, and even further, you lie about it and say that God supports it.
Tony, I do know when I do wrong for the most part, I always ask God to forgive me for anything I have said and done that I am unaware of.........I also ask my Precious Father to reveal to me anything that I am doing that would be sinful.
Listen, you can try all day long right along with "nc resident " to discredit me......go for it. Truth is, I am saved from the curse of sin and you are not.........now you are rebellious and living a lifestyle that is an abomination to God.
You can play all day long like you are happy with your partner, truth is there is no happiness in you, not real happiness........sin breeds death and misery.
Now, I can tell you in all honesty I am happy with my life. Knowing that I do not have everything under control but, that God does. You are not the first one to try to make me doubt my faith and walk with God.........it is impossible for you to do that.
I know in whom I have believed (smiling and thankful).....and with that knowledge comes peace and comfort. Thanks for your post, with each one that attacks.....I am reminded of the "sure" foundation I am standing on. He is wonderful this "Father" of mine. I love being His daughter.....
".........I also ask my Precious Father to reveal to me anything that I am doing that would be sinful. "
HELLOOOOO..... open up your ears.... you are sinning with your arrogant condemnations of others.
Humilityy isn't doubting your faith it is recognizing God has a relationship with all his children. You are NO better than anyone Else, sinner.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10751 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
Can you offer ANY proof that they were any less inspired that any other gospel? Do remember that there were many christians that claimed that one or more of these books WAS the truly inspired text, and the one's you worship were NOT...
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof is in FAITH/BELIEF....
<All> Scripture is <God-breathed> and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
so that the servant of God may be thoroughly <equipped> for every good work.
"God-breathed"...... God breathed through human authors (apostles.)
**********
Above all, you must understand that ~~~~~<NO> prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.~~~~~
For prophecy <NEVER> had its origin in the *will of man,* but [[[[[men SPOKE from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”]]]]]
God’s Word is God-breathed.
It was inspired by him, created by him, given to US!
"Man does NOT live on bread alone, but on <EVERY WORD> that COMES from the <MOUTH OF GOD.”>
You could have just been honest and answered "no", since you have clearly failed to offer the least bit of evidence that is not merely circular reasoning. "We know the Bible is true because the Bible says so" is NOT proof.

By the way, that quote (which you once again FAILED to properly attribute...) was written at a time when there was NO "scripture" other than the Torah. While there were other books of the Old Testament that were considered worthy, inspired, or holy, they had not been canonized into a formal collection.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10752 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't practice sin "resident" I can't and call myself a Christian. Do you? Like I said when I do something wrong I know it and I repent. It is clear you want to pick a fight with me so give it your best shot....... the Lord has my back. You know not what spirit uses you.
Jas. 3:3-8

Without a doubt, the most poisonous tongue of all is the backbiter's. It spits its deadly venom to the four winds. It is an evil known throughout the earth. One can never stigmatize and deplore it enough.

Therefore, we shall now study the nature of this evil, its various species, and the gravity of the evils it breeds.

Here is the definition given by Saint Thomas Aquinas: "Backbiting is denigration of a neighbor's reputation by means of secret words." (2) Indeed, a person may wound someone by word in two ways: openly and to his face (that is, by insulting him); and secretly, when he is absent -- and that is backbiting.

(2) St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theoligica, Part II, Section II, Quest. 73, Art. I.

Palladius relates that someone once asked Saint Anthony, "What is backbiting?" and he replied, "It is every sort of wicked word we dare not speak in front of the person about whom we are talking."

This is truly the nature of backbiters. They cannot do physical harm to those who are absent, so they strike at them with their tongue. Saint Thomas Aquinas says, "Destroying a person's reputation is a very serious wrong." (3) And Saint Bernard declares, "Backbiting is a great vice, a great sin, a great crime." (4)

(3) Ibid. Part II, Section II, Question 83, Article 2.
(4) Saint Bernard, De modo bene vivendi, Chapter 33.

There are eight specific ways in which a man can backbite his neighbor:

1. When he gets carried away by vanity and imputes things against his neighbor that never happened, or when he adds to the truth imaginary circumstances that constitute either a lie or detraction.

2. When he brings a hidden or unknown fault to light. What he says is true, but he should not say it. He backbites, not by saying something untrue, but by wounding his neighbor's reputation. This is a very common sin among us.

3. When he exaggerates a crime, be it true, or false. This is a danger to which we readily expose ourselves when we talk about the vices of others.

4. When he relates something about another person that is not evil in any way, but speaks as though his neighbor had done it for evil reasons and adds various explanations such as, "Yes, he did that, but not with God in mind... He's not so pious as all that; he seeks to please men, he wants to stand out… You should know him, he's a hypocrite."

5. When a backbiter declares nothing but is happy to say, "I've heard it said that…" or, "There's a rumor going around..." or when he relates something as if it were doubtful: "So-and-so might not be exactly what you think, I don't think he is deserving of confidence.

6. Backbiting is so subtle that anyone can defame another person with a simple gesture. He hears someone being praised for his integrity, piety or generosity, and he says, "Oh. you don't know that fellow? I see right through him. Ask me anything about him, I know him inside out." Or he raises an eyebrow and remains silent.

7. He can backbite not only with body language but also with silence. He may wickedly say nothing about the integrity or morals of his neighbor, especially when he is questioned about them or when his neighbor is accused of some crime.

8. Finally, a person is guilty of backbiting if he is publicly blamed for something he did, and he denies his guilt, thereby making his accuser pass for a liar. It is surely not an obligation to publicly admit a fault committed in secret. However, one should justify himself in some other way.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/morality/...

“Fully Protected ~”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#10753 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
George Bernard Shaw, noted playwright, founder of a school of economics, winner of the Nobel Prize for literature (AND an Oscar for the same work), died at the age of 94 He was an atheist.
Richard Dawkins, evolutionary biologist and militant atheist is still going as his 72nd birthday approaches in a few days.
Thomas Edison, famous inventor and businessman, was a Deist, thus he "denied" Jesus, yet he lived to age 84.
<quoted text>
Ayn Rand, darling of the teabaggers and stanch atheist, died at age 77.
And on the other side of the coin, just how many people call on Jesus as they watch their young children die slow painful deaths from disease?
It does not matter how long you live it is if you know Jesus or not......I would be as bold to say if you could have 15 seconds with these ppl you post about....they would change your mind about eternity. They were foolish just like you.
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#10754 Mar 21, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
George Bernard Shaw, noted playwright, founder of a school of economics, winner of the Nobel Prize for literature (AND an Oscar for the same work), died at the age of 94 He was an atheist.
Richard Dawkins, evolutionary biologist and militant atheist is still going as his 72nd birthday approaches in a few days.
Thomas Edison, famous inventor and businessman, was a Deist, thus he "denied" Jesus, yet he lived to age 84.
<quoted text>
Ayn Rand, darling of the teabaggers and stanch atheist, died at age 77.
And on the other side of the coin, just how many people call on Jesus as they watch their young children die slow painful deaths from disease?
"Laci Ann 7 wrote:
Still want to mock God? Please continue reading.....
THE MAN WHO BUILT TITANIC: After the construction of Titanic, a
reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be. With an ironic
tone he said: "Not even God can sink it" The result: I think you
all know what happened to the Titanic.
MARILYN MONROE: She was visited by Billy Graham during a
presentation of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to
preach to her. After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she
said: "I don't need your Jesus". A week later, she was found dead in her
apartment. "
I cannot believe she really posted this. So God killed all those people on the Titanic to prove a point with the builder? AND he kileed Marilyn Monroe because she didn't get saved by Billy Graham? I bet he assassinated JFK too for being a Catholic. I thought Native left the building.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10755 Mar 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The Passover was held every year in celebration of God having "passed over" the children of Israel during the last of the 10 plagues which God delivered to Egypt as the result of Pharaoh’s <disobedience> to the will of God as delivered to him by Moses and Aaron, to free the Jewish Nation from slavery after more than 400 years of captivity, bondage, and slavery.
The same God who delivered them has delivered us!
The same God who delivered His people from the bondage of Pharaoh and the affliction of slavery has delivered us from sin!
Jesus is the Passover Lamb.
Now, asked yourself this question:
"Is He <MY> Passover Lamb?"
Ah, got it. You think that God lied to Moses...

Exodus 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Note the words "FOR EVER" in that verse.

And in answer to your question, as I have pointed out many times, Jesus was nothing. He certainly was not a lamb, he was a man. Human sacrifice is an abomination.

“Fully Protected ~”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#10756 Mar 21, 2013
nc resident wrote:
<quoted text>
".........I also ask my Precious Father to reveal to me anything that I am doing that would be sinful. "
HELLOOOOO..... open up your ears.... you are sinning with your arrogant condemnations of others.
Humilityy isn't doubting your faith it is recognizing God has a relationship with all his children. You are NO better than anyone Else, sinner.
Get behind me satan.......you are a false messenger. God does have a relationship with His Children and they do not practice sin, abort babies, practice homosexual lifestyles.

You would do well to read and understand the Bible for its truth.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10757 Mar 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Then Jesus came to them and said, <<<“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.>>>
Therefore <GO> and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
<<<and TEACHING them to ~~~OBEY EVERYTHING~~~ I have ***COMMANDED*** you.>>> And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Wow, you really are dumber than I would have thought possible.

Is that ANYWHERE in the Torah? No, it is not. ALL commandments were written in the Torah, therefore, that is not a commandment. Life does not get any simpler than that.

“Fully Protected ~”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#10758 Mar 21, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Jas. 3:3-8
Without a doubt, the most poisonous tongue of all is the backbiter's. It spits its deadly venom to the four winds. It is an evil known throughout the earth. One can never stigmatize and deplore it enough.
Therefore, we shall now study the nature of this evil, its various species, and the gravity of the evils it breeds.
Here is the definition given by Saint Thomas Aquinas: "Backbiting is denigration of a neighbor's reputation by means of secret words." (2) Indeed, a person may wound someone by word in two ways: openly and to his face (that is, by insulting him); and secretly, when he is absent -- and that is backbiting.
(2) St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theoligica, Part II, Section II, Quest. 73, Art. I.
Palladius relates that someone once asked Saint Anthony, "What is backbiting?" and he replied, "It is every sort of wicked word we dare not speak in front of the person about whom we are talking."
This is truly the nature of backbiters. They cannot do physical harm to those who are absent, so they strike at them with their tongue. Saint Thomas Aquinas says, "Destroying a person's reputation is a very serious wrong." (3) And Saint Bernard declares, "Backbiting is a great vice, a great sin, a great crime." (4)
(3) Ibid. Part II, Section II, Question 83, Article 2.
(4) Saint Bernard, De modo bene vivendi, Chapter 33.
There are eight specific ways in which a man can backbite his neighbor:
1. When he gets carried away by vanity and imputes things against his neighbor that never happened, or when he adds to the truth imaginary circumstances that constitute either a lie or detraction.
2. When he brings a hidden or unknown fault to light. What he says is true, but he should not say it. He backbites, not by saying something untrue, but by wounding his neighbor's reputation. This is a very common sin among us.
3. When he exaggerates a crime, be it true, or false. This is a danger to which we readily expose ourselves when we talk about the vices of others.
4. When he relates something about another person that is not evil in any way, but speaks as though his neighbor had done it for evil reasons and adds various explanations such as, "Yes, he did that, but not with God in mind... He's not so pious as all that; he seeks to please men, he wants to stand out… You should know him, he's a hypocrite."
5. When a backbiter declares nothing but is happy to say, "I've heard it said that…" or, "There's a rumor going around..." or when he relates something as if it were doubtful: "So-and-so might not be exactly what you think, I don't think he is deserving of confidence.
6. Backbiting is so subtle that anyone can defame another person with a simple gesture. He hears someone being praised for his integrity, piety or generosity, and he says, "Oh. you don't know that fellow? I see right through him. Ask me anything about him, I know him inside out." Or he raises an eyebrow and remains silent.
7. He can backbite not only with body language but also with silence. He may wickedly say nothing about the integrity or morals of his neighbor, especially when he is questioned about them or when his neighbor is accused of some crime.
8. Finally, a person is guilty of backbiting if he is publicly blamed for something he did, and he denies his guilt, thereby making his accuser pass for a liar. It is surely not an obligation to publicly admit a fault committed in secret. However, one should justify himself in some other way.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/morality/...
Nettie said> Without a doubt, the most poisonous tongue of all is the backbiter's. It spits its deadly venom to the four winds. It is an evil known throughout the earth. One can never stigmatize and deplore it enough.

Finally.......a post about you and Seen? Thanks do you feel better now? Got to run, later.

“Seriously guys...”

Since: May 12

Regina

#10759 Mar 21, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Totally irrelevant. If you are a Greek , Aramaic and Hebrew expert then tell us of your credentials. If you know what language Jesus spoke fill us in.
Not irrelevant at all. Just because you don't like certain facts doesn't make them irrelevant.
You see, this all started by your insistence that ONLY your English language Bible is correct.
Now, since you KNOW Jesus didn't speak English, and we all know that English didn't even exist at the time any of the Bible WAS written, then why assume that only the English version you have is the the only correct version?
Do you speak any other languages besides English? Is that why you insist that ONLY your English language Bible is correct? Because you're an uneducated, unilingual boor?

And ya know what sport, even if I did lay out my credentials to you, you still wouldn't believe me and would still insist that YOUR English language Bible says I'm wrong.

You've been indoctrinated so deeply there's no having any sort of rational discussion with you about much of anything.

I'll just leave you with one last thing to think (if you'll pardon the exaggeration) about. If the Bible is so infallibly perfect, then why the 4 widely divergent stories on Christ's birth in the first 4 gospels? God instructed us to neither add nor subtract from His word, yet Mark, Luke and John ALL add or subtract details from the telling of Christ's birth in Matthew.

Education > dogma
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#10762 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>Get behind me satan.......you are a false messenger. God does have a relationship with His Children and they do not practice sin, abort babies, practice homosexual lifestyles.
You would do well to read and understand the Bible for its truth.
WOw you don't have a relationship with God? how is it then you claim him for your father? If God can forgive your "messing up" he can forgive anyone's messing up. Sin is sin. I actually do believe in the healing forgiveness of Christ Jesus. Most Christians do.
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#10763 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text>Nettie said> Without a doubt, the most poisonous tongue of all is the backbiter's. It spits its deadly venom to the four winds. It is an evil known throughout the earth. One can never stigmatize and deplore it enough.
Finally.......a post about you and Seen? Thanks do you feel better now? Got to run, later.
got to run....announcing your departure...sounds like Native.
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#10764 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text> It does not matter how long you live it is if you know Jesus or not......I would be as bold to say if you could have 15 seconds with these ppl you post about....they would change your mind about eternity. They were foolish just like you.
Errrr... your 15 seconds are up... epic fail
not bold... delusional and arrogant or vice versa.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10765 Mar 21, 2013
Laci Ann 7 wrote:
<quoted text> It does not matter how long you live it is if you know Jesus or not......I would be as bold to say if you could have 15 seconds with these ppl you post about....they would change your mind about eternity. They were foolish just like you.
Some time back, my (autistic) son found out that I was planning a menu that he did not like. He warned me that if I did not cook what he wanted, he was going to reconstitute the Nazi army and the Soviet army and unite them under his banner and defeat me.
Your threat is just as meaningless, just as childish, but not nearly as cute.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10766 Mar 21, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The sacrifices of animals was done in the Old Testament.....
Jesus was our sacrifice once and for all.....
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people.
He (Jesus Christ) sacrificed for their sins once for all when he (Jesus Christ) offered himself.
The sacrifice was part of the ETERNAL Covenant.

No man can atone for the sins of another. Human sacrifice is an abomination and cannot atone for ANY sins.

Once the REAL Messiah (aka "Christ") comes, there will be no reason for sin sacrifices; Jeremiah claims that the whole of the Law will be written upon the hearts of men so that they know and can follow the Law perfectly without study.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#10767 Mar 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
So He didn't tell every person to do that. He told his disciples, whom He had trained, whom He trusted not to misrepresent Him or His message.
You don't qualify for that position.
Yet more happy fun news...

Those disciples were all observant Jews, just like Jesus was, just like Jesus taught. It was Paul, who never met Jesus, who decided to ignore the ETERNAL Covenant.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#10768 Mar 21, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely. And I am someone who has always been conscious of that, who was never a "follower" or a materialistic person.
Christmas is of the world, not of God. I bet you celebrate that, don't you? Do you want to be "of the world" or of God?
And hatred and discrimination are of the world, and you have to be deceived to believe Jesus would want you to be that way.
I am very much separate from "the world" as much as is reasonable. I fall short in that I don't give away everything and live in poverty. But I live very simply and modestly - and that is intentional.
You make some good points, Tony....

I fall short, too....just like you do.....

But, if you are committing the same sin every day, how can you not be separated from God???

Is crucifying the flesh an easy task?

No.

In order for us to subordinate our own will to that of God, there must be a kind of suffering and self-denial.

There is a cross to bear daily.

The body must be kept under/brought into subjection.

.....but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.(spiritual death from sin)

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