Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against ...

Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

There are 16102 comments on the news.yahoo.com story from Apr 27, 2009, titled Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?. In it, news.yahoo.com reports that:

The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at news.yahoo.com.

Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9583 Mar 11, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Sweetie, the "sin" that God was making the Christians of Rome pay for was idolatry. His first punishment was to send them to religious ceremonies for Pagan Gods where such behavior "men with men" and "women with women" was expected of the participants. There was no punishment from God for these acts, no Sodom & Gomorrah like genocide, no rising up of the rest of Christianity to wipe out the Roman Christians, as in the story of the Levite and his concubine in Gibeah, nada. Paul does say that all the acts that God gave them over to are worthy of death in His eyes, including the same sex sex, but not even Paul calls for it to be done by the few remaining "good" Christians of Rome or by any other Christians.
if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

What does this tell you about the ungodly???
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9584 Mar 11, 2013
loveismygoal wrote:
<quoted text>Hi Truth ..Yes but there is also a whole lot more than this in the proceeding verses its not simply about a bunch of folks who somehow changed from being hetrosexual to homosexual its way way more than just that .... we also see a whole load of other stuff after this most often quoted in isolation verse.
Hey LoveIsMyGoal,

Thank you for your reply....

Now, let us look at this verse....

Romans 1:24

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

Sexual impurity....what do you think this means???

Strange flesh....what do you think this means???

God forbids a man to use another man&#787;s body for sexual uses, and forbids a woman to use another woman's body for sexual uses.

Genesis 13:13

13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.

Do we see the dangers of sin???

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9585 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
Then you really don't understand the dangers of sin...
I think you really missed the message of "go forth and sin no more". If you repent for your "sins", whatever you and your version of God imagine them to be, isn't the idea for you not to commit them again as part of the deal? Your version of repentance reads like the instructions on a bottle of shampoo for head lice. Lather, rinse, repeat as often as necessary until you get rid of your little problems.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9586 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
What does this tell you about the ungodly???
That there evidently weren't enough of them in Rome for God to go all OT on them and if you really take Genesis as a literal account of the history of the whole world, you believe in a seriously petty, small-minded version of God with "issues" towards folk you two consider to be "ungodly". Lots and lots of issues.

Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9587 Mar 11, 2013
loveismygoal wrote:
<quoted text>
1 Corinthians 6
King James Version (KJV)
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
It doesn't even say anything about homosexuals in the KJV .
Hey LoveIsMyGoal,

What does FLEE FORNICATION mean to you???

illicit sexual intercourse

aadultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

metaph. the worship of idols

of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

When God rejected the Gentile nations for idolatry, homosexuality and such like things, he chose Israel to be his chosen nation.

He gave them specific laws forbidding homosexuality.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9588 Mar 11, 2013
loveismygoal wrote:
<quoted text>
1 Corinthians 6
King James Version (KJV)
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
It doesn't even say anything about homosexuals in the KJV .
Notice the last part of that scripture....

He that commits FORNICATION sins against his own body.....

Now, would this be a good thing or a bad thing???
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9589 Mar 11, 2013
loveismygoal wrote:
<quoted text>
1 Corinthians 6
King James Version (KJV)
6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
It doesn't even say anything about homosexuals in the KJV .
porneia

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 4202
Original Word Word Origin
porneiva from (4203)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Porneia 6:579,918
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
por-ni'-ah Noun Feminine
Definition

illicit sexual intercourse
adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
metaph. the worship of idols
of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9590 Mar 11, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>We know you by your fruits, dear. Despite your absolute certitude to the contrary.
And for my fruits....there are many....

Since: Oct 07

Plymouth, UK

#9591 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey LoveIsMyGoal,
Thank you for your reply....
Now, let us look at this verse....
Romans 1:24
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Sexual impurity....what do you think this means???
Strange flesh....what do you think this means???
God forbids a man to use another man&#787;s body for sexual uses, and forbids a woman to use another woman's body for sexual uses.
Genesis 13:13
13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.
Do we see the dangers of sin???
Hi again Truth ..what Bible version are you using ? and is there a reason for your preference ? when reading this in the KJV it reads somewhat differently

Romans 1 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

the KJV doesn't say sexual impurity

strange flesh ? there is no mention of strange flesh in the scripture you quote

Genesis 13:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.

what was their sins?
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#9592 Mar 11, 2013
Got you again.

If your god turned from me before I did, it proves your "you need to seek god" belief system is abject bollocks.
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what you think.
Thinking

Gillingham, UK

#9593 Mar 11, 2013
I can blame you for insulting my father.

You are so very typical of your pathetic type. No wonder congregations are getting smaller every year in the decent countries.
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't blame me for you being a liar.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9594 Mar 11, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Yes dear, we are all well aware of Paul's opinion of the same sex sex acts that he said God gave them over to for their idolatry. It's actually the first of a whole butcher's bill of recompenses that Paul said that God was making the presumably heterosexual Christians of Rome pay for worshiping false idols and Pagan Gods. People who are by nature homosexual, would not be acting against their nature by doing such things. The message to them that the Christian God was actually abandoning them in dropping them off at a worship service for any of the really fun Pagan Gods is mixed at best, in spite of Paul's horror at such acts. Then again, Paul's belief was that our highest calling as a Christian was for EVERYBODY to keep their legs crossed in the name of Jesus. how's that working out for you?
New Testament works for me....

1 Timothy 1:10-11

10 [[[[[for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine]]]]]

11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

contrary to the sound doctrine....

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9595 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
Romans 1:24
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
Sexual impurity....what do you think this means???
That Paul, who believed all sex to be sinful and that the Christian's true calling was to abstinence, believed said acts to be wrong in both his and in turn, God's eyes. Besides, in verse 24 it really isn't made clear which of all the sexual impurities he is referring to in it, not all the Pagan Gods wanted same sex sex as a celebration, there were cults of the hetero variety too. Yes, Paul gets graphic in his denunciation of the same sex acts a couple of verses later, but all this naughty sexual stuff was God's punishment of a presumably heterosexual readership.
Truth wrote:
Strange flesh....what do you think this means???
That the women of Sodom were the daughters of man who had sex with the angels, which produced the giants in the Earth (Genesis 6). See the Testament of Naphtali, it can be found in the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs.
Truth wrote:
God forbids a man to use another man&#787;s body for sexual uses, and forbids a woman to use another woman's body for sexual uses.
In your choice of versions and that of the concordance website that you cut and pasted that from. Psst, you missed their computer generated reminder of the commandment not to steal.
Truth wrote:
Genesis 13:13
13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.
Do we see the dangers of sin???
Ezekiel 16:48-51(NIV)

48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.

49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

Surely, if God's one and only message to those who witnessed and continue to witness God's handiwork in in wiping out five cities in a snit, was thou shalt not commit the homosexual, Ezekiel evidently didn't get the memo.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9596 Mar 11, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>I think you really missed the message of "go forth and sin no more". If you repent for your "sins", whatever you and your version of God imagine them to be, isn't the idea for you not to commit them again as part of the deal? Your version of repentance reads like the instructions on a bottle of shampoo for head lice. Lather, rinse, repeat as often as necessary until you get rid of your little problems.
You can't get rid of all your little problems (sins) unless you follow all of Jesus' commands in the New Testament....and I am not talking about the 10 commandments.....
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#9598 Mar 11, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>That there evidently weren't enough of them in Rome for God to go all OT on them and if you really take Genesis as a literal account of the history of the whole world, you believe in a seriously petty, small-minded version of God with "issues" towards folk you two consider to be "ungodly". Lots and lots of issues.
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9599 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
You can't get rid of all your little problems (sins) unless you follow all of Jesus' commands in the New Testament....and I am not talking about the 10 commandments.....
You mean these, right?

Summary List Of The Commandments Of Jesus

I. The Universal Moral Law
A. The Law Of Love
"First, love God your Creator more than anything
else. Then, love all other people the same as you
love yourself."

B. The Ten Commandments
1. "Do not put anything ahead of God your Creator."
2. "Do not make or worship idols."
3. "Do not take the name of God in vain."
4. "Take one day of complete rest each week, in honor of God."
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
6. "Do not commit murder."
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not tell lies against anyone."
10. "Do not covet other people's possessions."
C. The Golden Rule
"Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Traeted."
II. The Other Commandments Of Jesus
1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU."
(Forgive, and be forgiven.)
2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."
4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light
under a basket.)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY."
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED."
(Go the extra mile.)
10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL
FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF
ALL YOUR NEEDS."
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS
BEFORE SWINE."
21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye shall
find.)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS,
COMFORT THOSE IN DISTRESS."
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS ... "
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR
GROUP."
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM."
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."

http://www.loveallpeople.org/pearl-thecommand...

How ya doing?

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#9600 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
And in this you pray. Good luck with that, by the way. My question is, when are you going to start doing what HE thinks is right? See previous post.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#9601 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
It has been a blessing to bring to you the Word of God...
It is my hope that someone has been blessed and will accept the Word of God to study it, obey it, and apply it to their lives....
Work is tomorrow....have to get to bed....
Blessings!
Way ahead of you.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#9602 Mar 11, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
You have judged yourself by being gay. Don't blame others.
That makes no sense, and did not answer the post.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#9603 Mar 11, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The outward man can't eat words, but the inward man can devour words.
God's words are full of substance; they are spirit and they are life.
I wish your posts were full of substance.

Find me God's words. You can't.

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