Catholic Church Waging War on Women a...

Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays

There are 217999 comments on the Fables of the reconstruction story from Oct 30, 2007, titled Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays. In it, Fables of the reconstruction reports that:

“Pharmacists must seek to raise people's awareness so that all human beings are protected from conception to natural death, and so that medicines truly play a therapeutic role”

Pope Benedict XVI said Monday that pharmacists have a right to use conscientious objection to avoid dispensing emergency contraception or euthanasia drugs - and told them they should also inform patients of the ... via Fables of the reconstruction

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Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256368 Feb 27, 2016
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
It's always nice to hear from you, Estelle. I had what I thought was a pretty good post yesterday, but it disappeared and failed to post. Made me mad!
Hopefully others will understand, as you seem to, that I don't hate people who are Catholic, I just strongly disagree with some of what the church teaches. I think it can be good for some people to allow their conscience to inform them. I personally think it is unhealthy to routinely ignore your instincts in some blind loyalty to religious doctrine. Not everyone deals with this conflict in the same ways, but the first step is to recognize that there IS a conflict.
I know that your personal journey was difficult and sometimes painful, but I admire your courage and tenacity, and how you seem to have come through it with grace and humility.
Thanks Thomas (Tre H)!
Belles Echoes

Santa Cruz, CA

#256369 Feb 27, 2016
Tre H wrote:
Another thing I see from reading old posts is that Brian G has been posting his off-topic idiocy about ISIS since at least October 2014. Probably even earlier. His broken record has been skipping and repeating for a long time. He apparently refuses to either shut off the record player or put a different record on the turntable. It's the same ridiculous noise over and over, and you can't even dance to it.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
- Winston Churchill

“Headline already in use”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#256370 Feb 28, 2016
I admire the Catholic Church, I don't defame it. This is where we differ.

“Jesus, my Lord and my God.”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#256371 Feb 28, 2016
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
Michelle, I spent considerable time typing a reply to this yesterday... unfortunately it disappeared and failed to post for some reason... no, there was no profanity or anything offensive in it.... just one of those Topix glitches when posts just disappear.
You may or may not recall that for the last several years I cannot afford internet at home, so I post from the library, and I'm limited to 2 hours a day on these computers, and not all of that is spent on Topix... and I don't come here every day. So I hope you forgive me if I don't rush to try to re-do that post immediately, because my time online is limited, and it's frustrating and discouraging when a post I spent some time on just vanishes.
Suffice it to say for now, I do not perceive you as hateful or anything like the WBC. Nor do I compare the RCC to WBC.
I'm frustrated because I came up with what I thought communicated things very well yesterday, but I don't know if I can remember how I stated everything. I'm not claiming the post was a work of art, or anything particularly special... but it's sort of like a painter about to reveal a painting, only to discover that the canvas is now somehow blank, as if all that work was never done. Very disappointing, but that's not your fault or your problem.
I may try to re-create the post at some point after I get over the anger of it vanishing on me. But I don't have such an enormous ego to think you'll be anxiously awaiting it either...probably doesn't matter one bit. For all I know, my post vanishing could have been "divine intervention," but again... one would have to have quite an ego to think it was important enough for god to step in.
Thomas, I don't think you're arrogant, but I'm so curious as to what the post would have said. And I know you don't group all people like the RCCs in one category and perceive us as hateful. Now maybe the WBC members all are. They're a small group who shows hatred and thinks God hates everyone else but them probably.
I have a lousy memory so I didn't remember about you going to the library to post. Speaking of affording things, I'm cutting off my cable because we just can't do it anymore, and that includes internet, so I really hope we can find someone who will just let us have internet on the computer if our present company does not. So we're getting rid of the TV and home phone, but hopefully keeping the internet. I don't even come on the computer daily anymore so as you know I'm slow to respond to you and I know you're not having my response on your mind before anything else. We have our different problems to deal with, and it seems the hard financial problems have hit both of us. I hope it gets better for you, Thomas.
I'm sorry about your the Topix glitch. I thought I heard a scream yesterday, LOL!! Have a good day.

“Jesus, my Lord and my God.”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#256372 Feb 28, 2016
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
MichelleMC...
I see a lot of myself in you when I was a strong practicing Catholic.
I realized over time I was experiencing Catholic guilt 101.
It's your decision to follow the Catholic Church's teachings and belief's.
As you quoted you have embraced what you been taught.
As for me I revisited everything I've been taught from day one and that took many many years.
Then I've made my own adult very tough decision to become non-practicing Catholic.
My son who's gay was the tipping point of my examination of conscience in a supersized way.
It is not a easy path but it was well worth it for me.
Hi Estelle.
For what it's worth, I'll keep praying for you and your son. If I remember correctly, I think you told us you talked to the Priest about your son when you were still practicing, or maybe I'm wrong. If you did, I just hope he never told you to turn your back on him because that would be against our Lord and His teachings. I just don't understand how "Christian" parents can turn their backs on their children, small or grown for any reason, and that's not being a true Christian.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#256373 Feb 29, 2016
MichelleMC wrote:
<quoted text>
Thomas, I don't think you're arrogant, but I'm so curious as to what the post would have said. And I know you don't group all people like the RCCs in one category and perceive us as hateful. Now maybe the WBC members all are. They're a small group who shows hatred and thinks God hates everyone else but them probably.

I'm sorry about your the Topix glitch. I thought I heard a scream yesterday, LOL!! Have a good day.
Certainly the WBC is notoriously homophobic. They even brainwash their young children into a culture of hate, forcing them to carry the ultra-offensive picket signs reading things like "You're Going to Hell" and "God Hates Fags," and often disturbing the funerals of military service people.Apparently they even have a website with the domain name godhatesfags dot com.

But they are kind of old news. And the old man, Fred Phelps died a while ago, so the biggest bellowing windbag is no longer fanning the flames, so maybe the hate will die down. After all, this is one small church, and most of them are related. There have been stories of a few who have left the church (and family) and escaped what is basically a cult of hate.

But not everyone who is hateful or bigoted is as blatantly outspokenly honest about their hatred as The Phelps Clan. And there are certainly far more people in this world who are anti-gay, even if they don't scream and shout it like the WBC. It's not as if the WBC are the only problem LGBT people have.

In fact, their over-the-top in-your-face brand of hatred has in the long run, actually helped... because sane people would be ashamed to behave like them. It exposes the level of absurdity and hypocrisy and hatefulness and obsessiveness of people who regularly aggressively cultivate pure hatred for people just because they're not heterosexual, or support people who are not heterosexual.

There are people who do not spend their lives attacking gays, but who still have very anti-gay attitudes, even if they think they're being polite about it.

In the post that got lost, I said something about... think of the villains in some horror movies. Sometimes a clown, or a doll, or a young child, or a little old lady with a smile can be far scarier than the more obvious horrible demonic looking monsters. It's the insidiousness of images that are seemingly benign and innocent having the power to do great evil.

This can also apply to the "devil," for those who believe such things exist. Some people assume the devil looks obviously evil, like a demon with horns, frightening and ugly. But some people perceive the devil as beautiful, seductive, and charming.

Now, I'm not trying to say the pope is actually the devil, but as long as the church continues to teach that unrepentant non-heterosexuals will be tortured for eternity because their god is a homophobe... any pretense of "kindness" or "dignity" toward LGBT people is just that... pretense. There is no kindness or dignity in such a message, no matter how sweetly they deliver it or wrap it in smiles and hugs.

I am also NOT saying that you, Michelle, are some kind of villain. I actually perceive you as someone whose instinct is to be loving and caring. I just see you as someone who also struggles with trying to reconcile that instinct with what you've been taught.

Sorry if I'm being repetitive, but at this point I don't remember what I already said, and what was in the post that disappeared... and I know there was quite a bit more that I already forgot what all I said.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#256374 Feb 29, 2016
It happened again... the post above did NOT POST the first time for some reason, but this time I managed to recover what I posted and the second time it posted.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#256376 Feb 29, 2016
And now it's back. Geez, this site is messed up.

“Jesus, my Lord and my God.”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#256377 Mar 1, 2016
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
Certainly the WBC is notoriously homophobic. They even brainwash their young children into a culture of hate, forcing them to carry the ultra-offensive picket signs reading things like "You're Going to Hell" and "God Hates Fags," and often disturbing the funerals of military service people.Apparently they even have a website with the domain name godhatesfags dot com.
But they are kind of old news. And the old man, Fred Phelps died a while ago, so the biggest bellowing windbag is no longer fanning the flames, so maybe the hate will die down. After all, this is one small church, and most of them are related. There have been stories of a few who have left the church (and family) and escaped what is basically a cult of hate.
But not everyone who is hateful or bigoted is as blatantly outspokenly honest about their hatred as The Phelps Clan. And there are certainly far more people in this world who are anti-gay, even if they don't scream and shout it like the WBC. It's not as if the WBC are the only problem LGBT people have.
In fact, their over-the-top in-your-face brand of hatred has in the long run, actually helped... because sane people would be ashamed to behave like them. It exposes the level of absurdity and hypocrisy and hatefulness and obsessiveness of people who regularly aggressively cultivate pure hatred for people just because they're not heterosexual, or support people who are not heterosexual.
There are people who do not spend their lives attacking gays, but who still have very anti-gay attitudes, even if they think they're being polite about it.
In the post that got lost, I said something about... think of the villains in some horror movies. Sometimes a clown, or a doll, or a young child, or a little old lady with a smile can be far scarier than the more obvious horrible demonic looking monsters. It's the insidiousness of images that are seemingly benign and innocent having the power to do great evil.
This can also apply to the "devil," for those who believe such things exist. Some people assume the devil looks obviously evil, like a demon with horns, frightening and ugly. But some people perceive the devil as beautiful, seductive, and charming.
Now, I'm not trying to say the pope is actually the devil, but as long as the church continues to teach that unrepentant non-heterosexuals will be tortured for eternity because their god is a homophobe... any pretense of "kindness" or "dignity" toward LGBT people is just that... pretense. There is no kindness or dignity in such a message, no matter how sweetly they deliver it or wrap it in smiles and hugs.
I am also NOT saying that you, Michelle, are some kind of villain. I actually perceive you as someone whose instinct is to be loving and caring. I just see you as someone who also struggles with trying to reconcile that instinct with what you've been taught.
Sorry if I'm being repetitive, but at this point I don't remember what I already said, and what was in the post that disappeared... and I know there was quite a bit more that I already forgot what all I said.
Thanks for your post Thomas. I knew you weren't referring to me because you have told me the other day. I do know people who are kind, but then I see they are anti gay. Gosh!!! This website is annoying and very slow. So sorry I was so short, but I don't have much patience for this. Take care.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256378 Mar 2, 2016
MichelleMC wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Estelle.
For what it's worth, I'll keep praying for you and your son. If I remember correctly, I think you told us you talked to the Priest about your son when you were still practicing, or maybe I'm wrong. If you did, I just hope he never told you to turn your back on him because that would be against our Lord and His teachings. I just don't understand how "Christian" parents can turn their backs on their children, small or grown for any reason, and that's not being a true Christian.
The priest I went to when I was still a practicing Catholic said to keep praying and loving my son.

He kept looking out of the window when he said it. There was no eye contact that is what I remember that was SO strange.

I got this feeling (I'm speculating) the words he was saying to me was rehearsed.

I could be he was struggling with his own sexuality? I don't know.

Another priest who was my parish priest he was really a closet gay and that was a nightmare for me.
I pick up on his deceptions and lies in the confessional.
I have no contact with him what so ever as well as any other priest now.

In my opinion, many closet gay priest are harder on gays and on their loved ones than straight priests.

Even though I don't pray, I wouldn't tell you Michelle not to pray for my son and even me because if anyone understand the Catholic ways it's me.

Take-care,
Estelle



Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256379 Mar 2, 2016
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>

"There are people who do not spend their lives attacking gays, but who still have very anti-gay attitudes, even if they think they're being polite about it."
The vibes I get from some of those folks. I can see through their expressions.
I've learned to be smart about handling people like that.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256380 Mar 2, 2016
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>

"I am also NOT saying that you, Michelle, are some kind of villain. I actually perceive you as someone whose instinct is to be loving and caring. I just see you as someone who also struggles with trying to reconcile that instinct with what you've been taught."
Exactly the way I see Michelle also.

If I was in a coffee shop and started a conversation with Michelle I wouldn't be intimidated by her.

I would easily respect the boundaries because I do have a deep insight on Catholicism because of my background and upbringing.

For other Catholic folks who are not like Michelle I would find them toxic because the conversation would be one-sided and unproductive.

I have a brother and his wife every year send me a Christmas Mass card. I understand where they are coming from because I know they are just doing what most Catholics do. But they do not call me and start bad mouth me about my gay son or me leaving the Catholic Church.

Another brother and his wife went to a big Marian site it's a place the Virgin Mary supposed to have appeared and spoke to some people.(Bosnia)

My brother and his wife prayed for me and my family. This brother brought me back literature, holy cards etc...
I was a little hurt but learned to rise above it because they were only doing what came natural to them as Catholics.

I'm secure as a non practicing Catholics now so I can handle stuff like that.

It takes time for some people to realize they been a big change. The change is me not them.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256381 Mar 2, 2016
Correction it should read:
...there's been a big change.
Belles Echoes

Santa Cruz, CA

#256382 Mar 2, 2016
Recovering Catholics Unite !

“Jesus, my Lord and my God.”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#256383 Mar 2, 2016
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
The priest I went to when I was still a practicing Catholic said to keep praying and loving my son.
He kept looking out of the window when he said it. There was no eye contact that is what I remember that was SO strange.
I got this feeling (I'm speculating) the words he was saying to me was rehearsed.
I could be he was struggling with his own sexuality? I don't know.
Another priest who was my parish priest he was really a closet gay and that was a nightmare for me.
I pick up on his deceptions and lies in the confessional.
I have no contact with him what so ever as well as any other priest now.
In my opinion, many closet gay priest are harder on gays and on their loved ones than straight priests.
Even though I don't pray, I wouldn't tell you Michelle not to pray for my son and even me because if anyone understand the Catholic ways it's me.
Take-care,
Estelle
Hey Estelle,

Yeah I have to agree that was strange that the Priest couldn't make eye contact with you. I'm sorry for the bad experiences you did have, but I'm still also sorry you left the Church.

“Jesus, my Lord and my God.”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#256384 Mar 2, 2016
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly the way I see Michelle also.
If I was in a coffee shop and started a conversation with Michelle I wouldn't be intimidated by her.
I would easily respect the boundaries because I do have a deep insight on Catholicism because of my background and upbringing.
For other Catholic folks who are not like Michelle I would find them toxic because the conversation would be one-sided and unproductive.
I have a brother and his wife every year send me a Christmas Mass card. I understand where they are coming from because I know they are just doing what most Catholics do. But they do not call me and start bad mouth me about my gay son or me leaving the Catholic Church.
Another brother and his wife went to a big Marian site it's a place the Virgin Mary supposed to have appeared and spoke to some people.(Bosnia)
My brother and his wife prayed for me and my family. This brother brought me back literature, holy cards etc...
I was a little hurt but learned to rise above it because they were only doing what came natural to them as Catholics.
I'm secure as a non practicing Catholics now so I can handle stuff like that.
It takes time for some people to realize they been a big change. The change is me not them.
Thank you for your kind post, Estelle.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256385 Mar 3, 2016
MichelleMC wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Estelle,
Yeah I have to agree that was strange that the Priest couldn't make eye contact with you. I'm sorry for the bad experiences you did have, but I'm still also sorry you left the Church.
Some relatives and other folks I know are surprise I left the Catholic Church.

Some feel sorry for me.

Then they forget and go on with their life like I'm doing.

I need to keep being honest with myself.

I can't live a life pretending being a practicing Catholic.

That is just not good and not healthy.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#256386 Mar 3, 2016
MichelleMC wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for your kind post, Estelle.
You are welcome.

Take good care of yourself Michelle!

“Jesus, my Lord and my God.”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#256387 Mar 4, 2016
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Some relatives and other folks I know are surprise I left the Catholic Church.
Some feel sorry for me.
Then they forget and go on with their life like I'm doing.
I need to keep being honest with myself.
I can't live a life pretending being a practicing Catholic.
That is just not good and not healthy.
I just feel bad for what you gone through and how that Priest dealt with your concerns. Anyway, thanks, Estelle, and take care of yourself as well.

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