Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays

[Bitner]

June VanDerMark wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you believe that the fetus's brain IS activated early in pregnancy ... and if so, why would the fetus NOT feel pain???
Be honest for a change Bitner.

I have been honest. You are being an extremist again. There are more than two choices.

I've explained all this before. You paid no attention previously, and I'm not going through it all again. Deal with it.

[Bitner]

June VanDerMark wrote:

I might have to go back and collect some of those posts of Bitners about why fetuses can't ever feel pain.
It's such fun to go back and bring those posts to the fore.

You obviously have no life.

[Bitner]

June VanDerMark wrote:

<quoted text>
I stated countless times that I was indoctrinated with both religions "from childhood" until I was about 70 years of age.
If Christians can be Wiccan and be in religion ... I could be a Christian-Rosicrucianist and be in religion.
:)
You bring a lot of fun to my life Bitner.

And you STILL are not answering the question.

[Bitner]

June VanDerMark wrote:

<quoted text>
Could I claim libel against you for stating that I am menally ill Bitner?
Stop whining and take your own medicine.
:)
I mean what I state. I wouldn't want you or Pagans such as you gaining power in politics. You are one scary witch indeed.
That is my perspective, and it is my right on a forum to express those sentiments.

Who cares? To keep bringing it up when I'm not IN gov't, nor running for office, or even in the same country as you, merely confirms my opinion that you are mentally ill.

[Jumper]

She's a card I'll say that.

[Sherlayne]

Jumper wrote:

She's a card I'll say that.

Jumper, hope you're doing well today.

[Jumper]

Sherlayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Jumper, hope you're doing well today.

I'm ok I guess.

I hooked up with this woman half my age and she's driving me to an early grave.Other than that fine.

[June VanDerMark]

If I was a fetus about to be aborted from a woman's womb, I would first want to be anesthetized.

There is no question about that issue.

[June VanDerMark]

Jumper wrote:

<quoted text>I'm ok I guess.
I hooked up with this woman half my age and she's driving me to an early grave.Other than that fine.

But does she fulfill your fantasies with her big titties?

:)

[Jumper]

June VanDerMark wrote:

<quoted text>
But does she fulfill your fantasies with her big titties?
:)

As the wise sage Mr.Spock would say..."Having is not as good as wanting.It sound illogical,but it is often true."

[June VanDerMark]

A soldier's life is disposable to me if that soldier is perceived as wanting to take away my freedom.

A fetus is disposable to a women maybe for the same reason.

I suggest we don't pretend to be puritans, when the truth is, we are all selfish to the core.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

Why would a Pagan be Prolife.

Rather that respecting pregnancy as part of the cycle of human existance and the natural continuation of human sexuality, abortion reduces gestation to the level of a sexual hangover, an unwelcome side-effect, "getting caught". It treats life as disposable, not inherently sacred and possessed of its own immeasurable value, but useless and worth preserving only if someone wants it.

http://www.reocities.com/sonyaelflady/nrwwapb...

[June VanDerMark]

Jumper wrote:

<quoted text>As the wise sage Mr.Spock would say..."Having is not as good as wanting.It sound illogical,but it is often true."

OH YES ... I agree with Mr. Spock. You must be careful of what comes wrapped in the same package "with" the big titties!

:)

[June VanDerMark]

Peaches wrote:

<quoted text>What nothing to say about her anti-gay speech. Not bend out of shape. June you're getting better day by day. LOL

I suggest that you go have a talk with her, and if she recognizes your idiocy then she might want to correct her own.

:)

[June VanDerMark]

Now I see why Bitner and none of the other Pagans on the forum ever mentioned those prolife Pagans to me.

The following would bring out the worst in Bitner.

I doubt that Bitner and this Pagan would be in the same cult, or in the same country ... if they could help it.

:)
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >

Why Would a Pagan be Prolife?

If we're going to be honest with ourselves, we should admit we know the ideology behind abortion is at best disrespectful of women's bodies and fertility, scornful of nature, immature in its view of responsibility. The best you can say of abortion rights, really, is that they allow free will - but the powerful always have the freedom to exercise their will, by virtue of their power. There is no question that in a pregnancy, the mother is the powerful one, with a natural responsibility to nuture and protect the dependent fetus. Why should the government ignore the natural bond and responsibility of mother to child, and instead proclaim that the mother may kill her child because of its dependency? If the government exists only to assert the so-called rights of the powerful, why do we need government at all?

http://www.reocities.com/sonyaelflady/nrwwapb...

[June VanDerMark]

And so you see that if Pagans ran the government, it would not go smooth in any case. They would be battling over the same issues as are all people with varying opinions.

"Abortions is killing a baby!!!"

"NO it isn't! There's no life in the fetus in the womb."

"That is a human in the womb!"

"No it isn't! It's a parasite."

"Blah, blah, blah, blah!"

Beware of the Pagan that tells you how it will be if he/she is voted into political power.

[Bitner]

June's losing it, big time. Worried about something that's not going to happen, in a country she doesn't even live it.

She has no life. It's sad.

[June VanDerMark]

Why Would a Pagan be Prolife?

Being prolife can leave us politically homeless, rejected and ridiculed.

But then, so can being pagan.

http://www.reocities.com/sonyaelflady/nrwwapb...

[June VanDerMark]

I also know Christians that are personally against abortion, but support those who have abortions.

The issues are complex, and morality is but a perspective, not an absolute.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>

A Wiccan Speaks on Abortion and the Wiccan Rede

The Wiccan Rede tells us "Live ye must, and let to live." I interpret that, along with "Harm none," to mean not to kill. I also believe that "Light of touch" includes doing as little harm as possible. Because of this, I feel that abortion is morally wrong. Abortion does harm to a living organism and destroys a life, violating the Wiccan Rede.

However, "Live ye must, and let to live" has another meaning. It also means that we must not govern how others live. You cannot tell others what to do with their lives and their bodies. You can only make your own choices. You can only decide what is right or wrong for you. As a Wiccan, you must allow everyone else in the world to do the same. Wiccans do not usually believing in taking free will from others. I therefore feel that abortion must remain legal.

http://voices.yahoo.com/a-wiccan-speaks-abort...

[Jumper]

Wow.

[June VanDerMark]

If Catholics follow the teaching of the pope, no group could be any more anti-abortion than Catholics.

Yet the fact is that many women of the Catholic faith have abortions.

Life is complex, and simple answers are ridiculous when all humans face different circumstances.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>

From the book “Morgentaler … The doctor who couldn’t turn away … by Eleanor Wright Pelrine, Published 1975 … comes the following ………

Neighbors in the quiet Montreal suburb where Dr. Morgentaler practiced for so many years have been helpful. When his involvement with abortion was made public, some pretended that they knew nothing of the prosecution he faced or the nature of his practice. Several telephoned to ask whether they could do anything to help. Surprisingly, there were no puritanical reactions from the down-to-earth working-class people who live nearby.

“People in Montreal, and people in general, nowadays, are in sympathy with a woman who tries to have an abortion, and when she has it done by a doctor, they are relieved. Many of the neighbors around my office were my patients for years, and I’ve always had very good relationships with them.”