What Divides Catholics and Protestants?

[concerned in Brasil]

Robert F wrote:

<quoted text>
Joyful in the Lord.
Ask. I have answered. You don't understand.
And then take a moment to consider why it is so important to you?
And how you frame the question?
And why you keep asking the question?
I need not repeat myself....
Robert

Maybe you need to ask yourself why you never just answer the question.

Its not a trick question.
Its not out of context.
Its does miss represent your written words in any way shape or form.

So why not just answer it????

Blessings in the Truth.

BTW
I know my reasons and my motives both of which you apparently have not got clue about.

Its about Love and truth.

For where there is a Lie turth and love cannot dwell.

[Crance]

Hey guys,

Is there anything new under the sun?

Peace

[com7fy8]

concerned in Brasil wrote:

Its about Love and truth.

All right, then, Concerned in Brasil ... maybe you would tell me the truth about this >

Paul says he desires to be "conformed to His death," in Philippians 3:10 >

What have you found out that Paul means by "being conformed to" Jesus Christ's death, please? God bless you (o:

And if you'd r-e-a-l-l-y love to get into truth about this with me, please also tell me however you yourself have personally experienced "being conformed to His death".

[Robert F]

christian rabbi wrote:

<quoted text>Hi, KT. I left you a post a few days ago. we were talking about Mary and you said to me that she was the wife of Zebedee(Matt 27:56). I corrected you on that verese. mary is not the wife of zebedee as you stated(you misread the verse) His wife's name was Salome. Now I can easily tell you why she was there. her son was standing very close to mary on that Hill. His name was John. his brothers name was James. she is the mother who asked jesus to allow her two sons to sit one on the right and the other on the left.
the writer tell us that Mary was the mother of two sons , and he gave their names, why he didnt mention the other two sons I dont know. but this is Mary the Mother of Jesus with two of her children.
it seems like ther are many Marys floating around and it behooves teh catholic church to try and cloud the issue, but if a person reads clearly, it is readily understood that mary, the mother of jesus had other children.
so you can cross this off of that list. zebedees wife was not a mary.

Greetings cr
Peace

This is very complex....I have been studying it for about 3 months....

The main problem is we don't know these "charactors" firsthand, and so we have various second-hand information....This second-hand information conflicted, and there was an attempt to "smooth" it over, and so various charactors appear, disappear, are created, the names are transliterated....For instance Joses, may be another name for Jesus....To the greek writers, they sound so similar, that a couple of vowels of similar sound are put in....

The re-writers of the Gospels, no knowing firsthand, but through writings and other sources just wrote the words, from a foreign sounding name, and culture, and did the best they could to smooth it together, and make it flow....

There is even supposition that Zebedee, may be a "created" name, but was actually Joseph....

The list goes on, and on, as to trying to figure out the geneology, and at this time in history, the evidence is conflicting, and actually making the "smoothing" over more apparent....

So being honest here. I cannot with the Bible alone say one way or the other concerning the "brethren" issue of Jesus is correct. Nor,(I believe) can anyone else....

However, the evidence via the Bible alone tends to support Jesus having brother and sisters, more by default, than proof....And not directly either....

Peace
Robert

[christian rabbi]

Robert F wrote:

<quoted text>
Greetings cr
Peace
This is very complex....I have been studying it for about 3 months....
The main problem is we don't know these "charactors" firsthand, and so we have various second-hand information....This second-hand information conflicted, and there was an attempt to "smooth" it over, and so various charactors appear, disappear, are created, the names are transliterated....For instance Joses, may be another name for Jesus....To the greek writers, they sound so similar, that a couple of vowels of similar sound are put in....
The re-writers of the Gospels, no knowing firsthand, but through writings and other sources just wrote the words, from a foreign sounding name, and culture, and did the best they could to smooth it together, and make it flow....
There is even supposition that Zebedee, may be a "created" name, but was actually Joseph....
The list goes on, and on, as to trying to figure out the geneology, and at this time in history, the evidence is conflicting, and actually making the "smoothing" over more apparent....
So being honest here. I cannot with the Bible alone say one way or the other concerning the "brethren" issue of Jesus is correct. Nor,(I believe) can anyone else....
However, the evidence via the Bible alone tends to support Jesus having brother and sisters, more by default, than proof....And not directly either....
Peace
Robert

sorry, bobby f, but we know who the sons of Zebedee were,and they werent the sons of mary. we know that salome walked with Jesus and His disciples since she knew Him well enough to have asked that question. In fact I believe she knew mary well enough and that they has such a relationship that Mary named one of her daughters after salome the wife of Zebedee.

so again dont lean to the understanding of another, especially the rcc who had and has their own agenda and that no matter what the bible teaches.

read the bible closely with the understanding that only God can give.

and you cant go wrong

[Robert F]

concerned in Brasil wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe you need to ask yourself why you never just answer the question.
Its not a trick question.
Its not out of context.
Its does miss represent your written words in any way shape or form.
So why not just answer it????
Blessings in the Truth.
BTW
I know my reasons and my motives both of which you apparently have not got clue about.
Its about Love and truth.
For where there is a Lie turth and love cannot dwell.

So....I will repeat. I have answered this sort of question twice (in fact) already....

You just didn't understand the answer....That is because the intent of your heart is in conflict with my answers....Your intent is to prove me a liar. And so you cannot reconcile that to an honest answer....

I have moved on from your questioning, and now question the Questioner....Your question was answered twice. And you refuse to accept it....But of course, I am not surprised.....Why not surprise me and answer my questions....LOL....I know. Never. You are perfect in your own beauty, oh Prince of Tyre....

Robert

[Robert F]

christian rabbi wrote:

<quoted text>sorry, bobby f, but we know who the sons of Zebedee were,and they werent the sons of mary. we know that salome walked with Jesus and His disciples since she knew Him well enough to have asked that question. In fact I believe she knew mary well enough and that they has such a relationship that Mary named one of her daughters after salome the wife of Zebedee.
so again dont lean to the understanding of another, especially the rcc who had and has their own agenda and that no matter what the bible teaches.
read the bible closely with the understanding that only God can give.
and you cant go wrong

Greetings cr
Peace

I thank you for your sincere and honest expression here....And I understand your concern....And it is mine as well....

I am not trying to confuse this issue of brethren of Jesus....LOL....It is confused enough....So I point out that confusion.....

Is it possible that Salome was the aunt of Mary the mother of Jesus?

This is a question worth exploring....And of course the closer relationship of sister.....

One of the interesting patterns is the "distancing" factor....Some of the writers try to distance the brethren of Jesus first to a sister, then an aunt, then a non-relative.....And all of these can be "interpretted"....

It is for this reason, that I cannot decide via the Bible alone. And your encouragement is true to let God lead....So, when God is ready for me to know, then I will let you know....
And I mean this sincerely....

Peace
Robert

[sunnstorms]

Kentucky Trevor wrote:

<quoted text>
Okay, I VERY VERY VERY strongly disagree with you.
God is omnipresent, He is present everywhere at one time. That means all over the earth in the past, present, AND future.
God knew Adam and Eve were going to disobey Him, God knew Jesus was going to be sent as the Savior of the world, and God knew you would exist before the foundation of the world.
It is all over the Bible, nothing can suprise God, He already knows what is going to happen BEFORE it happens.
Now the Bible uses terms to describe God's attitude symbolicly like "suprised" "changed His mind", ect.
I cannot believe you don't believe in God's foreknowledge. That is heresy and sinful to deny God is all powerful, the Almighty.

What does this scripture mean to you?

Genesis 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

[freedom88]

hey sunny

[com7fy8]

About what Paul means by "being conformed to" Jesus Christ's death (Philippians 3:10) > > >

olderndirt wrote:

Here's my take on it....Paul is telling the church of Phillippi that as good a practicing Jew that he was, it's gone. He puts everything in the death and resurrection of Jesus. What's amazing is he probably never even saw Jesus like the other Apostles.

Leaving behind Paul's Jewish religious practicing, and putting "everything in the death and resurrection of Jesus." Thank you, Olderndirt.

And Paul says we Christians have been "baptized into His death" (Romans 6:3)... so that, I'd say, we each can indeed be "conformed to His death" and from actual experience of this discover what God means, as He does this with us. So, even though you may not be a scholar, Olderndirt > we can discover what words and bookworming never could tell us about this, anyway (o:

[sunnstorms]

olderndirt wrote:

<quoted text>
My, My...you sure are busy. It's been a while since we posted.
As for your questions, I would guess that if the popes didn't defend the Vatican and fight for a piece of the Holyland, you would probably be worshipping at a mosque, on a rug with your face covered.
Are you saying that when the muslims were overrunning Europe the Christians should have prayed??? I don't know if that would have turned the invaders back. Maybe so. The pope of that time decided to defend the church with weapons.
I once read where a very religious Jewish group was about to be invaded and decided to pray for God's intercession. They all were praying when the invaders killed them without any resistance.

Jesus said to put the swords up. He who takes up the sword dies by the sword. The popes taking up swords is in direct opposition of what Jesus commanded.

As for the Jews who were killed, where are they? I don't mean their bodies...but where are they? Is there any place that is better than with the Lord?

"He who loves his life more than Me...."

Again, I say that God is all powerful, and if He willed, the Jewish people would not have died. We don't know His plan. But I do know that His kingdom is not of this earth, and we don't need to be fighting to stay here. If the muslims had destroyed the Christians down to the last man, then so? God would have set the rest of the plan into action already. Satan would have been vanquished already. It would be heaven on earth...already. I don't see the bad in that.

[com7fy8]

sunnstorms wrote:

<quoted text>
What does this scripture mean to you?
Genesis 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Straightforwardly ... it shows the LORD indeed did make man, if it does say "that he made man". AH-h-h-h-h-h-h-h ... so we got THAT straight (o:

It "repented the LORD". To repent someone, I think, means to make a guy change from what I guy has done. And if it grieves him, the guy is quite crushed, even, that he has done the thing.

I mean, this is what sinners are supposed to do > admit I sinned by doing something, and admit it was wrong. So, straightforwardly, with no embellishing > the LORD admits He has sinned and is grieved at the wrong He has done.

But since I have the prejudice, here, that the LORD can't sin or do evil, I think I'm going to consider an at least slightly "crooked" explanation of this, though (o:

But you see what being literal can do to the understanding, Sunny.

(o:

[sunnstorms]

Dryad wrote:

<quoted text>
Ja ja. Sorry, I'm really not making fun. But Pollo is the word used for chicken meat. Gallina or Gallo would be the word for a live chicken. You just called him a dead chicken -LOL

ROFL

I just typed in chicken, the translator did the rest!!
LOLOL
If the feathers fit, Disciple!! heeheehee

[Robert F]

sunnstorms wrote:

<quoted text>
Jesus said to put the swords up. He who takes up the sword dies by the sword. The popes taking up swords is in direct opposition of what Jesus commanded.
As for the Jews who were killed, where are they? I don't mean their bodies...but where are they? Is there any place that is better than with the Lord?
"He who loves his life more than Me...."
Again, I say that God is all powerful, and if He willed, the Jewish people would not have died. We don't know His plan. But I do know that His kingdom is not of this earth, and we don't need to be fighting to stay here. If the muslims had destroyed the Christians down to the last man, then so? God would have set the rest of the plan into action already. Satan would have been vanquished already. It would be heaven on earth...already. I don't see the bad in that.

Greetings sunnstorms
Peace

Muslims....There are all kinds....
Christians....There are all kinds....

The common problem is fundamentalism....And the eschatological movement in both....The thought that God would be pleased with us blowing up the world in order to save it....

Peace
Robert

[sunnstorms]

Kentucky Trevor wrote:

<quoted text>
Why are you coming across angry with me all day today and yesterday.:(
Anyway, we don't ignore St. Joseph, Pope John Paul II declared St. Joseph as patron Saint of the Church.
We love St. Joseph for being the foster father of Jesus. St. Joseph was very blessed by God's great gift to him, and God's plan for St. Joseph, before the foundation of the world, that he would be the foster father of Jesus.
Yes, the Holy Spirit does pray for us as our Advocate, and His prayers are much more powerful than Mary's, but I personally could use ALL the prayers I can get!:)
So anyway if I have offended you to make you upset with me forgive me. I am just a simple guy that love the Lord God and wants so defend His Church.:) God bless.

awwwww KT, I'm sorry!! I didn't mean to come off sounding like I was mad at you!! I wish I had my monkey faces so I wouldn't have to use caps to emphacize or show emotions!! I know it looks like I'm shouting, but I'm really not! Not at you! You are a sweetie!

I just get frustrated that all the Cath talk is about Mary when raising Jesus comes up. I've only seen Joseph mentioned a couple of times. He took on a TREMENDOUS responsibility in marrying her and raising Jesus! I just think the Caths need to mention him as well as Mary when the subject comes up.

[Kentucky Trevor]

sunnstorms wrote:

<quoted text>
What does this scripture mean to you?
Genesis 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

*God knew ahead of time that Jesus would have to be the Savior of the world.

Acts 2:23, "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and FOREKNOWLEDGE; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross."

* God knew before we were born wether we would be Christians or not.

I Peter 1:2, "who have been chosen according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance."

* God knows when the world will end, BEFORE IT HAPPENS.

Matthew 24:36, "“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows."

* Before God created the world He had a plan for us.

Ephesians 1:4, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love"

*God had planned to sent Jesus to earth to be the Savior.

I Peter 1:20, "He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake."

sunnstorms, you are very wrong, you can't disprove me on this, it is not up for interpretation. God cannot be tricked, God cannot be fooled, God cannot be suprised. Its just part of being God, that is what He is. God is God, and He does know the future and knew what we were going to do before we do it and chooses to love us unconditionally anyway.

ps. Genesis 6:6 says God repented from what He did, it doesn't mean He didn't see it coming.

[sunnstorms]

freedom88 wrote:

<quoted text>
sorry sunny but hes RIGHT (emphesis) nothing can surprise God remember He knows the beginning to the end

Yes, He does.
But why did God make the first sacrifice for sins an animal? Why wouldn't He go ahead and tell Mary to go and give birth to Jesus before sin took over the world if she was already there? Before He would have to cleanse the world of all He had created... I know Jesus was already there. He was there before the beginning. But Mary was not. That was my entire point. Mary was not there from the beginning. God saw down through the ages what would have to be done, and when the time was right, THEN He created Mary.

[Kentucky Trevor]

sunnstorms wrote:

<quoted text>
awwwww KT, I'm sorry!! I didn't mean to come off sounding like I was mad at you!! I wish I had my monkey faces so I wouldn't have to use caps to emphacize or show emotions!! I know it looks like I'm shouting, but I'm really not! Not at you! You are a sweetie!
I just get frustrated that all the Cath talk is about Mary when raising Jesus comes up. I've only seen Joseph mentioned a couple of times. He took on a TREMENDOUS responsibility in marrying her and raising Jesus! I just think the Caths need to mention him as well as Mary when the subject comes up.

Thats okay

Anyway,

We mainly talk about Mary because she is the one that fundies are always attacking and they don't attack St. Joseph. So we don't always bring him up.

[sunnstorms]

Kentucky Trevor wrote:

<quoted text>
All the angels in heaven have proclaimed God's since He created them :)

YUP!! lol

[concerned in Brasil]

Robert F wrote:

<quoted text>
So....I will repeat. I have answered this sort of question twice (in fact) already....
You just didn't understand the answer....That is because the intent of your heart is in conflict with my answers....Your intent is to prove me a liar. And so you cannot reconcile that to an honest answer....
I have moved on from your questioning, and now question the Questioner....Your question was answered twice. And you refuse to accept it....But of course, I am not surprised.....Why not surprise me and answer my questions....LOL....I know. Never. You are perfect in your own beauty, oh Prince of Tyre....
Robert

As Disciple has already said to you, you are a deceiver.

I will also point out to you, that you are truly your number one victim.

I know this to be true.
I know you are a liar your posts leave no doubt.

The issue has always been you, You apparently can't see you lied. You apparently cannot apprehend nor comprehend your posts are in direct conflict with each other. To say as you have, that you apostatized 12 years ago, had been in and out of the RCC for that period of Time and in fact as you posted you were a RC at the same time you had not gone to any RCC by your own admission for two years and saw no need to return means for one reason or the other you need some serious help.

If one truly loves his fellow man he will not let that go unchallenged as I have not.

I hope you deal with your dual life soon as it will be the end of you if you don't. Get Help

May God bless you and keep you and may the truth and light of the risen Lord shine upon you.

If God keeps me here over time and you continue to masquerade as a devote long term RC I will simple state from time to time you are not because you said you were not.

Sincerely.