The Heresy of "Solo Scriptura"
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hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#1 Aug 6, 2010
The Biblically and Historically "unproven" belief of Solo Scriptura, is a "denial" of the authenticated, documented and verifiable TRUTH of Apostolic Church History as is parallels the Historical Interpretation of Sacred Scripture. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that Scripture is the only and final authority. Not only does the Bible never say that, but the Bible tells us that the CHURCH is the final authority for TRUTH. In Tim 3:15 The Apostle Paul calls the CHURCH the pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH.
Luke

Atlanta, GA

#2 Aug 6, 2010
Hi Hojo and thank you for starting this thread.

I would like to say that not only is it the "heresy of Sola Scriptura" it should be the heresies of Sola Scriptura.

We have seen literally hundreds if not thousands of heresies spin out of Sola Scriptura.

Anyone can now pick up a Bible, interpret it to say anything they want it to say and get people to blindly follow that interpretation.

One person says "I see OSAS in it!" Gets a group together, forms a church and then that doctrine takes off..

Another person says, "I see faith only no works...gets a group together and that doctrine takes off..

Another person says, "I see that if I can convince people to give me their money by telling them that if they tithe into my pockets the Lord will make them rich, but it'll be me getting rich!"

Let's look at that last one. Most people would look at that and say, "You gotta be pulling my leg! No fool would fall for that!"

People do fall for it and have fallen for it so hard that at least three of the largest Protestant churches in the country teach that heresy!
hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#3 Aug 7, 2010
Luke wrote:
Hi Hojo and thank you for starting this thread.
I would like to say that not only is it the "heresy of Sola Scriptura" it should be the heresies of Sola Scriptura.
We have seen literally hundreds if not thousands of heresies spin out of Sola Scriptura.
Anyone can now pick up a Bible, interpret it to say anything they want it to say and get people to blindly follow that interpretation.
One person says "I see OSAS in it!" Gets a group together, forms a church and then that doctrine takes off..
Another person says, "I see faith only no works...gets a group together and that doctrine takes off..
Another person says, "I see that if I can convince people to give me their money by telling them that if they tithe into my pockets the Lord will make them rich, but it'll be me getting rich!"
Let's look at that last one. Most people would look at that and say, "You gotta be pulling my leg! No fool would fall for that!"
People do fall for it and have fallen for it so hard that at least three of the largest Protestant churches in the country teach that heresy!
Since there is absolutely NO basis of biblical or Historical proof regarding the Truth of "solo scriptura", those who follow this Christian religion of "opinion", must rely on "condemning the faith of other Christians, judgmental attacks on the Catholic Church, "re-interpreting Sacred Scripture to fit their anti-Catholic "scripture only" bias, and inserting the word "Catholic" in the book of Revelations, where-ever necessary, in order to keep their "Cafeteria smorgasboard Christianity" in tact by the continual"cherry picking" of scripture. The leaders of "solo scriptura", rely on their preaching of "ignorance and hatred" in order to "desperately" keep their followers hyped, confused and chaotically disordered, since bible only truth, is based solely "personal opinion" and "inventing" or "making things up", by calling it TRUTH
making it up as you go

Monroe, CT

#4 Aug 7, 2010
DON'T simply use what's written in a bazillion books and can't be changed or re-edited; change it at your whim so that all the new 'legends' and unsupportable 'traditions' and ceremonies can be ADDED to your repetoire.

"God told us to tell you that this is what He wants from you from now on."

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#5 Aug 7, 2010
Here is a link to an essay refuting Sola Scriptura. It falls into certain other errors, but is a good place to begin.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologeti...
Dan Dougherty

United States

#6 Aug 8, 2010
Another day of the RCC:

"...making the word of God of none effect through your tradition..." -Mark 7:13

www.scribd.com/doc/22550327/Stealing-the-Keys...
Dan Dougherty

United States

#7 Aug 8, 2010
"The Religion of Nimrod" shall soon encompass the earth

www.scribd.com/doc/17301877/The-Religion-of-N...
hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#8 Aug 8, 2010
Dan Dougherty wrote:
"The Religion of Nimrod" shall soon encompass the earth
www.scribd.com/doc/17301877/The-Religion-of-N...
Oh, I believe that The Religion of Nimrod, has "ALREADY emcompassed the earth,---- as it being sustained, nourished, by "Satan" himself!--- The reason I know this is because I was raised in this "solo scriptura" atmosphere for over 3o years, a life of heresy, misrepresentation of Church history and distortion of the TRUTH of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is NOTHING more than a Christian teaching based upon "personal opinion" and anti-Catholic indoctrination against the TRUTH of the One True Apostolic Catholic Church, the Church of which is Historical documented and PROVEN to have been initiated, formed and instituted by Jesus Christ Himself in Matt 16:13-21.---- "Solo Scriptura" has NO basis of biblical or historical proof and its existence is predicated upon the "denial" of the TRUTH of Church History and the use of "Catholic verbal bashing" in order to "try" and get people to believe its "heretical teachings!"

Since: Aug 10

East Stroudsburg, PA

#9 Aug 8, 2010
making it up as you go wrote:
DON'T simply use what's written in a bazillion books and can't be changed or re-edited; change it at your whim so that all the new 'legends' and unsupportable 'traditions' and ceremonies can be ADDED to your repetoire.
"God told us to tell you that this is what He wants from you from now on."
That's just what the catholics do - they make it up as they go.
hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#10 Aug 8, 2010
snyper wrote:
Here is a link to an essay refuting Sola Scriptura. It falls into certain other errors, but is a good place to begin.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologeti...
Thanks for your comments and the excellent source that you have provided!!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#11 Aug 8, 2010
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for your comments and the excellent source that you have provided!!
No problem, my friend.

The problem with that little piece is that it relies on another heresy - tradition.

"Just because your opposition is provably or obviously wrong, does not make your position correct."

My personal view and belief is that the criterion for "salvation" is far simpler and, as a result, far more existential and harder to take. It does, however, preclude the pitfalls that have been evidenced by history throughout pretty much all of what has been called "christendom".
hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#12 Aug 8, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
No problem, my friend.
The problem with that little piece is that it relies on another heresy - tradition.
"Just because your opposition is provably or obviously wrong, does not make your position correct."
My personal view and belief is that the criterion for "salvation" is far simpler and, as a result, far more existential and harder to take. It does, however, preclude the pitfalls that have been evidenced by history throughout pretty much all of what has been called "christendom".
You have EXACTLY answered the falicy of "solo scriptura"!! It is based on "personal opinion", yours, Dan Dougherty, Jack Chick and the other 39,000 + religious "personal interpretations" of scripture. Again, your statement saying that my position is "obviously wrong" (and by-the-way, it is not my personal postion,and it is not obviously wrong because but it is based upon Apostolic Sacred (proven & documented) Church History, which parallels Sacred Scripture. If you are referring to tradition as heresy, then you had better read the bible before you make erroneous statements like that. I 2 Thess 2:15 the Apostle Paul commands the faithful to obey tradition, whether it is oral OR written. Because, Scripture IS tradition! and 2 Thess goes on to say that tradition is not limited to what is written. It also includes the oral teachings of the Apostles----This is why the One True Apostolic Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Christ initiated, and established by our Lord Himself,which is based upon
the words of Christ Himself (Not mine-but His) in Matt 16:13-21 verifiable and confirmed in Apostolic Church History!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#13 Aug 8, 2010
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
You have EXACTLY answered the falicy of "solo scriptura"!! It is based on "personal opinion", yours, Dan Dougherty, Jack Chick and the other 39,000 + religious "personal interpretations" of scripture. Again, your statement saying that my position is "obviously wrong" (and by-the-way, it is not my personal postion,and it is not obviously wrong because but it is based upon Apostolic Sacred (proven & documented) Church History, which parallels Sacred Scripture. If you are referring to tradition as heresy, then you had better read the bible before you make erroneous statements like that. I 2 Thess 2:15 the Apostle Paul commands the faithful to obey tradition, whether it is oral OR written. Because, Scripture IS tradition! and 2 Thess goes on to say that tradition is not limited to what is written. It also includes the oral teachings of the Apostles----This is why the One True Apostolic Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Christ initiated, and established by our Lord Himself,which is based upon
the words of Christ Himself (Not mine-but His) in Matt 16:13-21 verifiable and confirmed in Apostolic Church History!
Not exactly, my friend.

You would be correct if my emphesis and bases were founded upon any "Sola".

The reality, outside broad policy statements that is, resides with the individual at every turn. As with responsibility, there is nothing BUT absolute personal engagement. Decision cannot be shared nor coerced.

In truth, we always stand as naked as the day we were born ... always. And there is nothing wrong with that.
hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#14 Aug 8, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Not exactly, my friend.
You would be correct if my emphesis and bases were founded upon any "Sola".
The reality, outside broad policy statements that is, resides with the individual at every turn. As with responsibility, there is nothing BUT absolute personal engagement. Decision cannot be shared nor coerced.
In truth, we always stand as naked as the day we were born ... always. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Your response has been total "giberish and complete nonsensical rhetoric! You have said absolutly NOTHING that supports your "solo Scriptura" basis, which is total reliance on "scripture only" as the basis of all TRUTH. The Bible not only "refutes" what you claim to be as TRUE, BUT Jesus commands us, as the Apostle Paul says in I Tim 3:16 "that the CHURCH (NOT the Bible), is the pinnacle and foundation
of the TRUTH.--And what is the Church? The Greek word for Church here is "ecclesia" which refers to the visible hierarchical and authoritative CHURCH, not an invisible, ethereal body of believers loosely connected by faith in the Bible alone.---Where in the Bible does it say that it has to be in the Bible in order for it to be true. NO WHERE! The Bible is the word of God but it is not the ONLY authority for Christians!! Why?? Because it cannot interpret itself! The Bible directs us to an authority outside of itself to understand what it actually means. That is why Catholics have a great love for Scripture. We want to insure that it is properly interpreted, and not abused with false and heretical interpretations that continue to divide the body of Christ, of the manner in which Dan Dougherty continues to spread his anti-catholic heresy on this forum.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#15 Aug 8, 2010
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response has been total "giberish and complete nonsensical rhetoric! You have said absolutly NOTHING that supports your "solo Scriptura" basis, which is total reliance on "scripture only" as the basis of all TRUTH. The Bible not only "refutes" what you claim to be as TRUE, BUT Jesus commands us, as the Apostle Paul says in I Tim 3:16 "that the CHURCH (NOT the Bible), is the pinnacle and foundation
of the TRUTH.--And what is the Church? The Greek word for Church here is "ecclesia" which refers to the visible hierarchical and authoritative CHURCH, not an invisible, ethereal body of believers loosely connected by faith in the Bible alone.---Where in the Bible does it say that it has to be in the Bible in order for it to be true. NO WHERE! The Bible is the word of God but it is not the ONLY authority for Christians!! Why?? Because it cannot interpret itself! The Bible directs us to an authority outside of itself to understand what it actually means. That is why Catholics have a great love for Scripture. We want to insure that it is properly interpreted, and not abused with false and heretical interpretations that continue to divide the body of Christ, of the manner in which Dan Dougherty continues to spread his anti-catholic heresy on this forum.
I do NOT have a SolA Scriptura basis. Both SolA Scriptura and Inerrency are logically tautalogical, and even self-refuting within that tautology. Further, all but the most conflationist perspective on the Hebrew and Greek writings cannot help but see the conflicting perspectives in the accounts.

But let's just borrow a bit of SolA bias for a moment, to the extent that there exists a proto-message nestled within, say, Matthew and Mark; both of which share so much text.

Here's an example.

Compare Matthew 19:3-9 and Mark 10:2-5

As I mentioned in a prior post, if these accounts are viewed as authentic, and also not viewed juridically (pharisaically), then it is clear that Yeshua is saying that not everything in the Hebrew writings and traditional teachings is Divine in origin. This means that it is not prophetic utterance. This also means that "the bible" is NOT "the word of God". Some is. Some is not. From within a SolA Scriptura perspective, this is a serious problem, and inso both the premises at the foundation of both Sola Scriptura AND Inerrency are self-refuting.

This does not, of course, mean that Tradition holds water either. All are very leaky boats. Better pray for gentle weather and calm waters. lol

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#16 Aug 8, 2010
Oh. Here's an interview that can save us a lot of words. A really good listen, indeed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php...

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#17 Aug 9, 2010
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response has been total "giberish and complete nonsensical rhetoric!... as the Apostle Paul says ...
Here's a fine article on Saul -->

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2004/...
hojo

Ridgecrest, CA

#18 Aug 10, 2010
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a fine article on Saul -->
http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2004/...
Interesting articles, but lets put it this way. I choose to rely on Sacred Apostolic Church History, the first 5 centuries of the Church and the early Church Fathers that spent decades, discerning, contemplating, authenticating, and interpreting the TRUTH of the letters, documents and writings of the Apostles. The writings of the early Saints of the Church, such as St. Augustine, St Ambrose, St Benedict, St. Justin,St Patrick , St. Jerome, etc reveals there own searching for TRUTH and ALL eventually coming to the knowledge and the faith of the collelation between Sacred Scripture and the Historical documented Truth of the writing of the Apostles The Fact remains, that Jesus Christ and His Word in (The Bible) would not have even been made available and been revealed to you without Christs One True Apostolic Catholic Church. The Church came first, then the Bible. It was the Church that gave you your Bible!! The Canon of Scripture was not even closed until A.D.382 at the regional councils and the Bible wasn't even compiled until A D.393 and 397. Protestants "somehow' have this dilusional thinking that the Bible "all of a sudden" happen to appear somewhere,as if some found a copy, while walking on the "Road to Emmaus"! "Solo scriptura" (bible only) as the only source of all truth! NO WAY!! If it is, then please show me in the Bible where it says so!!! YOU CAN!! and we ALL know it!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#19 Aug 10, 2010
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting articles, but lets put it this way. I choose to rely on Sacred Apostolic Church History, the first 5 centuries of the Church and the early Church Fathers that spent decades, discerning, contemplating, authenticating, and interpreting the TRUTH of the letters, documents and writings of the Apostles. The writings of the early Saints of the Church, such as St. Augustine, St Ambrose, St Benedict, St. Justin,St Patrick , St. Jerome, etc reveals there own searching for TRUTH and ALL eventually coming to the knowledge and the faith of the collelation between Sacred Scripture and the Historical documented Truth of the writing of the Apostles The Fact remains, that Jesus Christ and His Word in (The Bible) would not have even been made available and been revealed to you without Christs One True Apostolic Catholic Church. The Church came first, then the Bible. It was the Church that gave you your Bible!! The Canon of Scripture was not even closed until A.D.382 at the regional councils and the Bible wasn't even compiled until A D.393 and 397. Protestants "somehow' have this dilusional thinking that the Bible "all of a sudden" happen to appear somewhere,as if some found a copy, while walking on the "Road to Emmaus"! "Solo scriptura" (bible only) as the only source of all truth! NO WAY!! If it is, then please show me in the Bible where it says so!!! YOU CAN!! and we ALL know it!
Again, I am not a proponent of ANY of the Solas of Calvin, et al.

I am an ante-nicene follower.

It's always amused me that the English/French word "tradition" does derive from an ancient Latin word with a radically different meaning : traditio,(L) traitor. lol
Dan Dougherty

United States

#20 Aug 11, 2010
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I believe that The Religion of Nimrod, has "ALREADY emcompassed the earth,---- as it being sustained, nourished, by "Satan" himself!--- The reason I know this is because I was raised in this "solo scriptura" atmosphere for over 3o years, a life of heresy, misrepresentation of Church history and distortion of the TRUTH of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is NOTHING more than a Christian teaching based upon "personal opinion" and anti-Catholic indoctrination against the TRUTH of the One True Apostolic Catholic Church, the Church of which is Historical documented and PROVEN to have been initiated, formed and instituted by Jesus Christ Himself in Matt 16:13-21.---- "Solo Scriptura" has NO basis of biblical or historical proof and its existence is predicated upon the "denial" of the TRUTH of Church History and the use of "Catholic verbal bashing" in order to "try" and get people to believe its "heretical teachings!"
The RCC has been caught in lie after lie over the years regarding Church history. The organization cannot be trusted to present untainted facts regarding ANYTHING, especially the doctrine of salvation.

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