Iran set to try 7 Baha'i leaders

Full story: CNN

Seven Baha'i community leaders have been held at Tehran's Evin prison since their arrests in March and May 2008.
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“A Programmer is not in IT!”

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#21
Jan 10, 2010
 
Um, lets see....
Lunatics running the country
Innocent civilians being shot and run over in the streets
A small religious sect is being persecuted and imprisoned on trumped false allegations.

And yet the dingbat president of iran says all these things are the work of foreign agencies and refuses to do anything more than swallow the load of semen the religious grand poo-ba serves to him.....

How's that for whats going on?

So how about you quit your posturing and admit the system is flawed and need to be fixed?
laojim wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it that you don't read well or is it that you have difficulty in comprehension? Ranting about the president of Iran as the villainous nemesis of the Baha'i is rather like raving about the governor of New Mexico as the nemesis of the Zuni when he is really just the fellow that happens to be in office at them moment. It would be nice if he would use his office to improve the lot of the repressed, but he neither started it nor is he likely to finish it. So, why not find out what is going on instead of just raving?

“First take log out of own eye ”

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#22
Jan 10, 2010
 
RACE wrote:
and out of 100% of the current iranian regime only 100% of then are murdering scum!
Please stop, your acting foolish. I would love how you have determinged that out of over a quartermillion people you can identify the 100 rabble. Your a tool!
Oh, and why are they being percecuted in the first place? I thought iranians enjoyed more freedoms than Americans? Your parrot head president jibber-jabber said so. Are you calling your leader a liar? I am.
<quoted text>
Baha’I is an organized hate group, This group or cult restricts the freedom of the majority to feel safe within there own land. Just as the KKK restricts the ability of African Americans to feel free and safe within there homes, groups such as the Baha’I in Iran and the KKK in America must be brought under control and restricted or they infringe on others freedoms. Freedom comes with an agreement or social contract, to not infringe on other peoples freedoms or there is no freedom at all. It seems easy for you to criticize others without taking the log out of your own eye how much freedom did the US government give those followers of David Koresh in Wako it was clear that you government felt that the branch dividends posed a threat to American freedoms so the terminated them in the most horrific way.
Outlawing cults that have a detrimental effect on society as a hole seems common sense to me.

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#23
Jan 10, 2010
 
RACE wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide your proof, or shut your pie hole. Its not true if you cant provide the proof, so put up or shut up!
While Washington’s acting UN ambassador Alejandro Wolff approved the issuing of this statement, his government is covertly funding and supplying weapons to the groups carrying out these terrorist attacks.

The February 26 London Sunday Telegraph reported:“America is secretly funding militant ethnic separatist groups in Iran … The operations are controversial because they involve dealing with movements that resort to terrorist methods in pursuit of their grievances against the Iranian regime …

“Funding for their separatist causes comes directly from the CIA’s classified budget but is now ‘no great secret’, according to one former high-ranking CIA official in Washington who spoke anonymously to the Sunday Telegraph.

“His claims were backed by Fred Burton, a former US state department counter-terrorism agent, who said:‘The latest attacks inside Iran fall in line with US efforts to supply and train Iran’s ethnic minorities to destabilise the Iranian regime.’

also read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jundallah#United...

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#24
Jan 10, 2010
 
RACE wrote:
Um, lets see....
Lunatics running the country
Innocent civilians being shot and run over in the streets
A small religious sect is being persecuted and imprisoned on trumped false allegations.
And yet the dingbat president of iran says all these things are the work of foreign agencies and refuses to do anything more than swallow the load of semen the religious grand poo-ba serves to him.....
How's that for whats going on?
So how about you quit your posturing and admit the system is flawed and need to be fixed?
<quoted text>
If you would read more carefully you would clearly see that I agree that the situation is unsatisfactory, but the point remains that there is no point in raving on about your condemnation of the Iranian government as though it were the cause of it all, which it is not. The suppression of the Bahais goes back at least to the time of the Shah. What I may or may not think of the system is another matter.

It is clear from your posts that you do not understand either the history of Iran or the way that government works, which is unusual. You insist on raving about the president, who is not particularly important. I wonder if the real rules don't keep him just because he annoys the enemies of the nation so much.

Ciao

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#25
Jan 10, 2010
 
laojim wrote:
<quoted text>
If you would read more carefully you would clearly see that I agree that the situation is unsatisfactory, but the point remains that there is no point in raving on about your condemnation of the Iranian government as though it were the cause of it all, which it is not. The suppression of the Bahais goes back at least to the time of the Shah. What I may or may not think of the system is another matter.
It is clear from your posts that you do not understand either the history of Iran or the way that government works, which is unusual. You insist on raving about the president, who is not particularly important. I wonder if the real rules don't keep him just because he annoys the enemies of the nation so much.
Ciao
Your thinking is stuck in a common illusion, Understanding why Iran’s system is set up the way it is brings light onto the short comings of western democracy. The supreme leader has no ability to interfere with Iran’s day to day political affairs he is there only to keep Iran moving towards its long term objectives and protect the revolutionary nature of the system by vetting candidates, making shore those that are elected to run the day to day affairs of the country have the interests of the majority population at there center.

In western democracy there in no-one accountable for long term policy failures, it is unelected think-tanks within the CIA, the RAND corporation and others that set the long term objectives of western direction.

Take for example the water crises here in Australia. Dams desalination plants and pipe networks needed to be built years ago maybe two or three governments ago yet these things were not done. Who is accountable, who do Australians blame and will be punished for this laps in forward planning. The government of today blames there predecessors but they have left politics and sit pretty on there large pension funds.

In America who is responsible for the funding of the mujahedeen of Afghanistan that now has become the scourge of the world, Who will lose there standing because of this poor insight.

In Iran these responsibilities would fall on the supreme leader and the people could hold him responsible. As you no-doubt know the supreme leader can be sacked at any time if he does not fulfill his long term obligations.
The Iranian system addresses many downfalls of western style democracy and is an example for all people. There is no reason that the political structure of Iran could not be adapted to secular government in the west and if it were mankind might be in a better position to address long tern issues such as climate change.

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#26
Jan 10, 2010
 
pjam2825 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your thinking is stuck in a common illusion, Understanding why Iran’s system is set up the way it is brings light onto the short comings of western democracy. The supreme leader has no ability to interfere with Iran’s day to day political affairs he is there only to keep Iran moving towards its long term objectives and protect the revolutionary nature of the system by vetting candidates, making shore those that are elected to run the day to day affairs of the country have the interests of the majority population at there center.
In western democracy there in no-one accountable for long term policy failures, it is unelected think-tanks within the CIA, the RAND corporation and others that set the long term objectives of western direction.
Take for example the water crises here in Australia. Dams desalination plants and pipe networks needed to be built years ago maybe two or three governments ago yet these things were not done. Who is accountable, who do Australians blame and will be punished for this laps in forward planning. The government of today blames there predecessors but they have left politics and sit pretty on there large pension funds.
In America who is responsible for the funding of the mujahedeen of Afghanistan that now has become the scourge of the world, Who will lose there standing because of this poor insight.
In Iran these responsibilities would fall on the supreme leader and the people could hold him responsible. As you no-doubt know the supreme leader can be sacked at any time if he does not fulfill his long term obligations.
The Iranian system addresses many downfalls of western style democracy and is an example for all people. There is no reason that the political structure of Iran could not be adapted to secular government in the west and if it were mankind might be in a better position to address long tern issues such as climate change.
I haven't made any statement about what exactly I think of the Iranian government or revolution, largely because I don't know all that much about the place and I don't believe much of what I read in the press on that subject.

I do think that the popular revolution that took place in '79 was one of the most remarkable in history. One hears all kinds of reports about how the people have adapted to the revolution they made and I am inclined to think that it ought to be respected.

I am puzzled that the president seemed to make some rather outlandish remarks, which just means he is not one of the great statesman of history, but I get the impression that he is a sort sort of barking dog (no offense intended) that keeps the world talking about himself. Why, I have no idea.

From where we sit it rather appears that the current regime is on the edge of some major problems and their reactions seem puzzling, at least to me.

But, the first principle of political science is sovereignty so Iran gets to do as it pleases and this nation would be better off to interfere less in other nations doings.

On the other hand, I have known a few Bahais and it seems to me that they ought to be left alone, but that doesn't seem likely, does it?

“First take log out of own eye ”

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#27
Jan 10, 2010
 
laojim wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't made any statement about what exactly I think of the Iranian government or revolution, largely because I don't know all that much about the place and I don't believe much of what I read in the press on that subject.
I do think that the popular revolution that took place in '79 was one of the most remarkable in history. One hears all kinds of reports about how the people have adapted to the revolution they made and I am inclined to think that it ought to be respected.
I am puzzled that the president seemed to make some rather outlandish remarks, which just means he is not one of the great statesman of history, but I get the impression that he is a sort sort of barking dog (no offense intended) that keeps the world talking about himself. Why, I have no idea.
From where we sit it rather appears that the current regime is on the edge of some major problems and their reactions seem puzzling, at least to me.
But, the first principle of political science is sovereignty so Iran gets to do as it pleases and this nation would be better off to interfere less in other nations doings.
On the other hand, I have known a few Bahais and it seems to me that they ought to be left alone, but that doesn't seem likely, does it?
I congratulate you on you open minded approach and encourage you to look further into the matters that confront us all.
Ahmadinejad has been misquoted on numerous occasions try listening to Ahmadinejad, his own words.


http://video.google.com.au/videoplay... #

http://current.com/1c5uu4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://current.com/items/91029783_larry-king-...

I would be more than willing to clarify any questions about Iran, the Iranian system and the beliefs of Shia
As for Baha'I No group in Iran will suffer if they except the unity of mankind and do not try to manifest divisions between brothers

“A Programmer is not in IT!”

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#28
Jan 11, 2010
 
I think your both idiots. Saying something is not the regimes fault because they inherited the problem is the statement of an uneducated child, and further saying that the religious leader is not running iran is the statement of a tool.

The regime "culled" thousands of people after the revolution....Their crime? Thoughts not aligned with the head religious nut case.

Same thing will happen again, as it is the only way the religious zealots know how to stay in power, kill anybody who does not think like you!

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#29
Jan 11, 2010
 
RACE wrote:
I think your both idiots. Saying something is not the regimes fault because they inherited the problem is the statement of an uneducated child, and further saying that the religious leader is not running iran is the statement of a tool.
The regime "culled" thousands of people after the revolution....Their crime? Thoughts not aligned with the head religious nut case.
Same thing will happen again, as it is the only way the religious zealots know how to stay in power, kill anybody who does not think like you!
Well, I agree that religious extremists should be kept out of government, that is why we need to be much more watchful about "the Family," evangelicals who think this is the "endtimes," Mormons or the more radical variety, and a wide variety of self styled Christian conservatives, who are mostly religious nuts.

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#30
Jan 11, 2010
 
Right, so lets quit deflecting dude. Wanna whine about American politics, to to that thread. This thread is about a 7 people being jailed on trumped up charges and will probably be murdered bye the govt in the hopes of scaring the rest of the flock into hiding.
This thread is also about the religious extremism that rules iran and how it is so afraid of a thought, it must cut the head off the person who thinks it.(or shoot them in the street, hang them, rape them, run over them, whatever)
laojim wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I agree that religious extremists should be kept out of government, that is why we need to be much more watchful about "the Family," evangelicals who think this is the "endtimes," Mormons or the more radical variety, and a wide variety of self styled Christian conservatives, who are mostly religious nuts.

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#31
Jan 11, 2010
 
RACE wrote:
....
This thread is also about the religious extremism that rules iran and how it is so afraid of a thought, it must cut the head off the person who thinks it.(or shoot them in the street, hang them, rape them, run over them, whatever)
<quoted text>
Really? Who put you in charge? I didn't note that in the rules. Did I miss something or are you just an arrogant twit?

“First take log out of own eye ”

Since: Jan 07

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#32
Jan 11, 2010
 
To me it seem you both (laojim, RACE) are taking an extremist attitude to this.
The 7 Baha’i are not under arrest because of there faith or political position but because they have acted in extreme ways inciting violence damaging public property and assaulting law enforcement officers. If an African American or other minority individual commits murder or other crime can his defense for that crime be that he belongs to a minority group?

We must move beyond the classification of people into individual groups and stop dividing society as all have equal rights under the law and god.

From where I sit the US government and a large majority of its people are the extremists demanding that all nations be in there image.

We must as a global society preserve diversity but also focus on what unites us. Only by promoting education and development can we move forward to a better world.

A better world will not come at the end of the barrel of a gun but by letting nations develop freely.

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#33
Jan 11, 2010
 
pjam2825 wrote:
To me it seem you both (laojim, RACE) are taking an extremist attitude to this.
The 7 Baha’i are not under arrest because of there faith or political position but because they have acted in extreme ways inciting violence damaging public property and assaulting law enforcement officers. If an African American or other minority individual commits murder or other crime can his defense for that crime be that he belongs to a minority group?
We must move beyond the classification of people into individual groups and stop dividing society as all have equal rights under the law and god.
From where I sit the US government and a large majority of its people are the extremists demanding that all nations be in there image...
I used to know a fellow who was the son of Iranian Baha'i folks living in exile in Spain. It was never clear to my why his folks fled Iran but it appeared that they thought it was because of their faith. This did not, of course, explain why so many others did not flee, so I don't know what the situation really is.

Perhaps you might clarify.

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#34
Jan 11, 2010
 
laojim wrote:
<quoted text>
I used to know a fellow who was the son of Iranian Baha'i folks living in exile in Spain. It was never clear to my why his folks fled Iran but it appeared that they thought it was because of their faith. This did not, of course, explain why so many others did not flee, so I don't know what the situation really is.
Perhaps you might clarify.
Thank you for your question.
The very nature of revolution is there are winners and losers many of those driven by greed and self interest fled Iran during the revolution, to get asylum under UN law you must clam persecution and this is the root of many lies against Iran, not only did many exiles lose wealth in the revolution but there ability to exploit others was severally diminished.
I do not say this is the case of your Spanish friends but it is the case for many exiles.

Those that want to separate themselves from the majority are looked down upon by the majority of Iran.
The privet thoughts of people are not a concern of the government but when those thoughts and beliefs are used to divide people it does become the governments concern a major pillar of Iran is to unite not divide and this is why Christians and Jews are free to worship as they do in Iran. The government and the people of Iran focus on the communality of these faiths not the differences. The Baha’i people being an offshoot of Islam also follow common beliefs and weather they call themselves apples or oranges is no concern to the government and are looked upon as Muslims, but again when a few start to deny there common links to society then they are divisive and against the unity of Iran and the world.
Alrandolin

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#35
Jan 11, 2010
 
It appears that little facts about the situation of the Baha'is in Iran have been posted so far. I think I can clarify a few things since I have been a Baha'i for 40 years, am married to a Baha'i of Iranian background, and have lived as a Baha'i in 3 different countries. And these facts can be checked if you read the Holy Writings of the Baha'i Faith.

1. The Baha'i Faith promotes unity among all nations, peoples, races, religions.
2. The Baha'i Faith accepts the Divine Mission of the Founders of the world's great religions (including the Baha'is Faith) Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah - that they are all Divine Teachers and Messengers sent by God to enable mankind to become more noble, moral and spiritual.
3. The Baha'is do not have a professional clergy (this is perhaps one of the main reasons it is so hated by the Islamic clergy....because they will lose their hold on the masses if people become Baha'is and have to think for themselves. See #4)
4. The Baha'is believe in the independent search for the truth....not to rely on what your forefathers or anyone else tells you to believe. You have to search it out for yourself.
5. The Baha'is believe in the equality of women and men.(here is another sore point for the Islamic clergy and others holding to the concept of 'superiority of men'
6. The Baha'is believe in obedience to government - except when they are asked to recant their Faith.(This is why the charges of spying or masterminding protests or hiding cashes of firearms is rediculous.) This principle also puts them at the mercy of those in power. They do, however, try to obtain justice by appealing to the authorities.
7. The Baha'i World Center is in Israel as an accident (?) of history. Baha'u'llah was exiled from Iran to Iraq in 1853 and then to what is now Turkey in 1863 and then to what was Akka, Palestine in 1868. Akka was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. Only much later (1848) did the area become part of the state of Israel. Baha'is at the World Center are not Israelis - they are volunteers on tourist visas from 60 some countries.(I was one of these volunteers from 1999-2003)
8. Baha'is do NOT get involved in partisan politics and attacking any groups. How could they and still promote the oneness of mankind?
9. Anyway.....you get the drift. Just go to www.bahai.org to start your investigation. We pray that someday the Baha'is will have basic human rights in Iran as they are in most other countries.

Thanks for listening.

Alrandolin

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#36
Jan 12, 2010
 
If we were in iran, I could have you jailed for saying that!
laojim wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Who put you in charge? I didn't note that in the rules. Did I miss something or are you just an arrogant twit?

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#37
Jan 12, 2010
 
I think the other poster just blew you out of the water!

Tell me, what's it like to defend something you know to be wrong? Do you feel like a gansta, all big and bad? Maybe you just feel like you have sold you soul to the devil, I bet that's it. Is it true that the revolutionary guard is comprised of mostly homosexuals?
pjam2825 wrote:
To me it seem you both (laojim, RACE) are taking an extremist attitude to this.
The 7 Baha’i are not under arrest because of there faith or political position but because they have acted in extreme ways inciting violence damaging public property and assaulting law enforcement officers. If an African American or other minority individual commits murder or other crime can his defense for that crime be that he belongs to a minority group?
We must move beyond the classification of people into individual groups and stop dividing society as all have equal rights under the law and god.
From where I sit the US government and a large majority of its people are the extremists demanding that all nations be in there image.
We must as a global society preserve diversity but also focus on what unites us. Only by promoting education and development can we move forward to a better world.
A better world will not come at the end of the barrel of a gun but by letting nations develop freely.

“First take log out of own eye ”

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#38
Jan 12, 2010
 
RACE wrote:
I think the other poster just blew you out of the water!
Tell me, what's it like to defend something you know to be wrong? Do you feel like a gansta, all big and bad? Maybe you just feel like you have sold you soul to the devil, I bet that's it. Is it true that the revolutionary guard is comprised of mostly homosexuals?
<quoted text>
He has said nothing. What point has he made that contradicts what I have said?

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#39
Jan 12, 2010
 
Alrandolin wrote:
It appears that little facts about the situation of the Baha'is in Iran have been posted so far. I think I can clarify a few things since I have been a Baha'i for 40 years, am married to a Baha'i of Iranian background, and have lived as a Baha'i in 3 different countries. And these facts can be checked if you read the Holy Writings of the Baha'i Faith.
1. The Baha'i Faith promotes unity among all nations, peoples, races, religions.
2. The Baha'i Faith accepts the Divine Mission of the Founders of the world's great religions (including the Baha'is Faith) Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah - that they are all Divine Teachers and Messengers sent by God to enable mankind to become more noble, moral and spiritual.
3. The Baha'is do not have a professional clergy (this is perhaps one of the main reasons it is so hated by the Islamic clergy....because they will lose their hold on the masses if people become Baha'is and have to think for themselves. See #4)
4. The Baha'is believe in the independent search for the truth....not to rely on what your forefathers or anyone else tells you to believe. You have to search it out for yourself.
5. The Baha'is believe in the equality of women and men.(here is another sore point for the Islamic clergy and others holding to the concept of 'superiority of men'
6. The Baha'is believe in obedience to government - except when they are asked to recant their Faith.(This is why the charges of spying or masterminding protests or hiding cashes of firearms is rediculous.) This principle also puts them at the mercy of those in power. They do, however, try to obtain justice by appealing to the authorities.
7. The Baha'i World Center is in Israel as an accident (?) of history. Baha'u'llah was exiled from Iran to Iraq in 1853 and then to what is now Turkey in 1863 and then to what was Akka, Palestine in 1868. Akka was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. Only much later (1848) did the area become part of the state of Israel. Baha'is at the World Center are not Israelis - they are volunteers on tourist visas from 60 some countries.(I was one of these volunteers from 1999-2003)
8. Baha'is do NOT get involved in partisan politics and attacking any groups. How could they and still promote the oneness of mankind?
9. Anyway.....you get the drift. Just go to www.bahai.org to start your investigation. We pray that someday the Baha'is will have basic human rights in Iran as they are in most other countries.
Thanks for listening.
Alrandolin
You forgot to mention Fanaticism is forbidden
These 7 charged are not true to themselves of Baha’I as they have worked for division and are fanatics acting criminally and in a bipartisan way all against the tenants of Bahá'u'lláh

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#40
Jan 13, 2010
 
No they have not, they are simply being charged with these crimes. First off forbidding separate thoughts is an exercise is stupidity, as you will wind up imprisoning your entire population (oh, wait...Thats what the regime has already done) Secondly its wrong!
pjam2825 wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot to mention Fanaticism is forbidden
These 7 charged are not true to themselves of Baha’I as they have worked for division and are fanatics acting criminally and in a bipartisan way all against the tenants of Bahá'u'lláh

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