Baha'i Fallacies and Contradictions

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Ex-bahai Now Christian

Reading, UK

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#1
May 12, 2008
 

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Comparative Religion, Baha'i Fallacies and Contradictions
One fact that Baha'is like to gloss over is that there are major differences between the various religions of the world, including outright contradictions and incompatibilities. Baha'is argue that God has revealed one unchanging spiritual message to different peoples and cultures at different times, but the social laws change from age to age according to the needs of the time, which causes religions to appear different. But open-minded and scholarly research into comparative religion does not support such a theory. The religions of the world are truly different, and each one would be insulted by any suggestion that what makes them unique is only some temporary "social laws" rather than a distinct assertion of eternal metaphysical truth and moral and philosophical guidance. The Baha'i theory falls apart when one is willing to investigate religions on their own terms, outside of the Baha'i theoretical framework that attempts to force all religions into a Baha'i box. If, as the evidence suggests, the major religions really have always taught different things which make them incompatible belief systems, then the Baha'i Faith cannot be the absolute truth revealed by God, because the oneness of all religions is a central Baha'i teaching.
I especially urge everyone to study the life of Muhammad and the early history of his religion -- you may be shocked by what you discover. They don't tell you many of the gory details in politically correct Islam 101 courses. Muhammad's rabid sex life and disrespect for women, his thirst for conquest and the spoils of war, and some of the backward moral teachings in the Qur'an (Koran) all serve to undermine the foundations of Baha'ism and its theology of "Manifestations of God" and "progressive revelation" -- and when viewed alongside the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, serve as a powerful argument for the ultimate truth of Christianity.
Ex-bahai Now Christian

Reading, UK

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May 12, 2008
 

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One need only look at traditional fundamentalist Islam being practiced in many parts of the world today, much as it was practiced in the time of Muhammad and the early Caliphs and Imams. Floggings, stonings, amputations, polygamy and harsh treatment of women, and bloodthirsty jihad (holy war) are all examples of teachings found in the Qur'an and Hadith, the original Muslim scriptures. Baha'ism emerged out of the Islamic religious tradition -- in many ways as a reaction to its excesses, arguing that Islam was inspired by God but had become corrupted by men. But the reality is, it was corrupt from the beginning, and today's Islamist fanatics are only trying to reinstate the religion of Muhammad who they view as the ideal man who brought the ideal law for society. Can Baha'is really maintain, as their theology requires, that Muhammad's teachings are superior or a more "progressive revelation" than the earlier, more loving and merciful teachings of Jesus Christ? Look at the tremendous pain and suffering inflicted by the sincere followers of Muhammad, and then judge the religion by its fruits. And then reflect upon the words of Jesus, that "a house divided against itself cannot stand." (Mark 3:25). Reform-oriented Muslims want to ignore the harsher verses in the Qur'an and claim that any offending Hadith must have been forged. Baha'is do the same. But this attitude goes against the obvious truth, that many things Muhammad taught and did are morally objectionable. If you are a Baha'i, you are obliged to accept Muhammad because Baha'u'llah accepted him. But if you cannot accept Muhammad, then you cannot accept Baha'u'llah, no matter how good his faith may seem to you.
Another issue that needs to be considered is the contradictions within the Baha'i Faith itself. Baha'is have a very large scriptural corpus which includes many teachings that conflict with one another upon careful analysis, especially regarding the transition from Babism to Baha'ism and from early Baha'ism to the modern Baha'i Faith. Furthermore, the Baha'i holy writings contain numerous examples of outright error, which undermines the Baha'i belief that the founders of their faith were infallibly guided by God and that everything they wrote is divine revelation.
ex-christian now athiest

Los Angeles, CA

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#3
May 15, 2008
 

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the bible is the filthiest book. it is pornographic-read ezekiel, song of songs and song of solomons. 'vaginas tasting like wine'. what filth. furthermore, moses killed innocent people, pregnant women and babies and took spoils of war. u filthy hypocrite
Fatima

Hobbs, NM

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#4
Jun 15, 2008
 

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The Baha'i faith is false, these fools worship a man Bahaullah and not God!

“khamsa ou khamis”

Since: Dec 07

Brooklyn, New York

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#5
Jun 17, 2008
 

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Fatima wrote:
The Baha'i faith is false, these fools worship a man Bahaullah and not God!
hmmm, you again. i see you have a new alias... unfortunately for you, the IP address gives you away.

I thought that I already clarified that we do NOT worship Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri. We worship ONLY Allah.

Maybe I should start going around calling YOU the fool? But dont worry, it isnt in my nature to sink myself down to that level.

Lets be honest, you arent here to objectively discuss the Bahai faith or to get a better understanding. Your only purpose is to sling the same old off-based insults, thinking that it somehow make you a better or stronger muslimah for doing so. Well, call me crazy, but I hardly think that Allah would find that gratifying.
When has insulting in ANY situation EVER made someone genuinely feel better about themselves?

And if you are going to insult at least come up with something a bit more creative and a bit more relevant to our actual belief system. You can tell people we worship Baha'ullah all you want... It wont make it true though.

“khamsa ou khamis”

Since: Dec 07

Brooklyn, New York

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#6
Jun 17, 2008
 
Ex-bahai Now Christian wrote:
One need only look at traditional fundamentalist Islam being practiced in many parts of the world today, much as it was practiced in the time of Muhammad and the early Caliphs and Imams. Floggings, stonings, amputations, polygamy and harsh treatment of women, and bloodthirsty jihad (holy war) are all examples of teachings found in the Qur'an and Hadith, the original Muslim scriptures. Baha'ism emerged out of the Islamic religious tradition -- in many ways as a reaction to its excesses, arguing that Islam was inspired by God but had become corrupted by men. But the reality is, it was corrupt from the beginning, and today's Islamist fanatics are only trying to reinstate the religion of Muhammad who they view as the ideal man who brought the ideal law for society. Can Baha'is really maintain, as their theology requires, that Muhammad's teachings are superior or a more "progressive revelation" than the earlier, more loving and merciful teachings of Jesus Christ? Look at the tremendous pain and suffering inflicted by the sincere followers of Muhammad, and then judge the religion by its fruits. And then reflect upon the words of Jesus, that "a house divided against itself cannot stand." (Mark 3:25). Reform-oriented Muslims want to ignore the harsher verses in the Qur'an and claim that any offending Hadith must have been forged. Baha'is do the same. But this attitude goes against the obvious truth, that many things Muhammad taught and did are morally objectionable. If you are a Baha'i, you are obliged to accept Muhammad because Baha'u'llah accepted him. But if you cannot accept Muhammad, then you cannot accept Baha'u'llah, no matter how good his faith may seem to you.
Another issue that needs to be considered is the contradictions within the Baha'i Faith itself. Baha'is have a very large scriptural corpus which includes many teachings that conflict with one another upon careful analysis, especially regarding the transition from Babism to Baha'ism and from early Baha'ism to the modern Baha'i Faith. Furthermore, the Baha'i holy writings contain numerous examples of outright error, which undermines the Baha'i belief that the founders of their faith were infallibly guided by God and that everything they wrote is divine revelation.
All of these things you are talking about in early Islamic society and Mohammad's personal life... happened JUST as prevolantly in Christianty. Maybe you should trya actually doing a little historical and theological reseach of your own and forming your OWN opinions for once instead of just blindly following what one group told you right to the next.

I'll give you some places to start--

*stoning of women was extremely common in Judaism and occurs several times throughout the Old Testament (Torah)

*Soloman had 700 wives

*King David coveted another man's wife and then sent her husband to be killed so that he could marry her.

*The Church's bloody Inquistion.

*The Crusades

*Priest "selling" absolution of sins to parishoners

*Justification of slavery...

Do you need more?

But then again... ignorance is truly bliss isnt it?

“khamsa ou khamis”

Since: Dec 07

Brooklyn, New York

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#7
Jun 17, 2008
 
Ex-Bahai Now Christian--

You know nothing about the Bahai faith... you probably just converted because you thought it sounded cool or to rebel against you parents or something-- neither of which are valid reasons for converting to ANY faith.

Also, anytime you are analyzing history it is absolutely necessary that you look at it in a historical,socio-cultural context... otherwise you will never be able to understand it.

You also know nothing about Islam so stop pretending to and stop trying to spread facetious garbage. Why dont you just go back to watching your favorite televangelist and sending in your weekly paychecks for "prayer cloths," "holy water" and "blessings"

Or read a book. Just please do something.
Fatima

Hobbs, NM

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#8
Jun 20, 2008
 
Asmara wrote:
<quoted text>
hmmm, you again. i see you have a new alias... unfortunately for you, the IP address gives you away.
I thought that I already clarified that we do NOT worship Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri. We worship ONLY Allah.
Maybe I should start going around calling YOU the fool? But dont worry, it isnt in my nature to sink myself down to that level.
Lets be honest, you arent here to objectively discuss the Bahai faith or to get a better understanding. Your only purpose is to sling the same old off-based insults, thinking that it somehow make you a better or stronger muslimah for doing so. Well, call me crazy, but I hardly think that Allah would find that gratifying.
When has insulting in ANY situation EVER made someone genuinely feel better about themselves?
And if you are going to insult at least come up with something a bit more creative and a bit more relevant to our actual belief system. You can tell people we worship Baha'ullah all you want... It wont make it true though.
Actually, it's not an alias...I stated who I was on the Christian forum. The Baha'i faith is nothing but a cult!
Fatima

Hobbs, NM

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#9
Jun 20, 2008
 
Ex-bahai Now Christian wrote:
Comparative Religion, Baha'i Fallacies and Contradictions
One fact that Baha'is like to gloss over is that there are major differences between the various religions of the world, including outright contradictions and incompatibilities. Baha'is argue that God has revealed one unchanging spiritual message to different peoples and cultures at different times, but the social laws change from age to age according to the needs of the time, which causes religions to appear different. But open-minded and scholarly research into comparative religion does not support such a theory. The religions of the world are truly different, and each one would be insulted by any suggestion that what makes them unique is only some temporary "social laws" rather than a distinct assertion of eternal metaphysical truth and moral and philosophical guidance. The Baha'i theory falls apart when one is willing to investigate religions on their own terms, outside of the Baha'i theoretical framework that attempts to force all religions into a Baha'i box. If, as the evidence suggests, the major religions really have always taught different things which make them incompatible belief systems, then the Baha'i Faith cannot be the absolute truth revealed by God, because the oneness of all religions is a central Baha'i teaching.
I especially urge everyone to study the life of Muhammad and the early history of his religion -- you may be shocked by what you discover. They don't tell you many of the gory details in politically correct Islam 101 courses. Muhammad's rabid sex life and disrespect for women, his thirst for conquest and the spoils of war, and some of the backward moral teachings in the Qur'an (Koran) all serve to undermine the foundations of Baha'ism and its theology of "Manifestations of God" and "progressive revelation" -- and when viewed alongside the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, serve as a powerful argument for the ultimate truth of Christianity.
They also say they are against all forms of prejudice, but yet gays are condemned by them and they shun convenant breakers who actually believe most of what they do.
Just so that I'm not accused of being an alias here, I go by Proud Black Muslimah on the Islamic forum. I go by Fatima on other religious forums to not sound as though I'm pushing Islam on anyone.
Fatima

Hobbs, NM

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#10
Jun 20, 2008
 
Asmara wrote:
Ex-Bahai Now Christian--
You know nothing about the Bahai faith... you probably just converted because you thought it sounded cool or to rebel against you parents or something-- neither of which are valid reasons for converting to ANY faith.
Also, anytime you are analyzing history it is absolutely necessary that you look at it in a historical,socio-cultural context... otherwise you will never be able to understand it.
You also know nothing about Islam so stop pretending to and stop trying to spread facetious garbage. Why dont you just go back to watching your favorite televangelist and sending in your weekly paychecks for "prayer cloths," "holy water" and "blessings"
Or read a book. Just please do something.
It's interesting that many children of Baha'is are not Baha'i and have become Christians. Says quite a bit about the cult.
Fatima

Hobbs, NM

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#11
Jun 20, 2008
 
The post above was meant for "Ex Baha'i now Christian"
yeah uh huh

Manchester Township, NJ

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#13
Jul 9, 2008
 
Fatima wrote:
<quoted text>
It's interesting that many children of Baha'is are not Baha'i and have become Christians. Says quite a bit about the cult.
You are a liar, and have no idea what you are talking about.
NolF

Perth, Australia

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#14
Jul 23, 2008
 
Care to share reliable statistics? The good old "I got many friends, or people I know, are not a reliable form of statistic.

Even if it were true, at least they have the freedom to self determination and their belief is not imposed on them.

In regards to homosexuality, you may read Lights of guidance p.364-367 it is the exercise of homosexuality which forbidden. It is worth the time, just keep an open mind whilst reading :)

One question which definition of cult, sect and religion are you using? what makes the Bahaí Faith a cult and Christianity, Islam etc a religion?
Dont worry Be happy

Clearwater, FL

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#15
Sep 22, 2008
 
Fatima wrote:
<quoted text>
It's interesting that many children of Baha'is are not Baha'i and have become Christians. Says quite a bit about the cult.
Have you considered that each person's spirit is their own and parents, whether they be Baha'i, Christian, Zoroastrian, Muslim, etc. has no right to tell their children what religion to follow, if any.

The responsibility of the parent is to teach their children, who are ultimately individual human beings, to live righteously. To expose them to different ways (on a righteous path) and let them choose for themselves.

Yes, for a Baha'i parent to have a Christian child is does say quite a lot about the parent and the Baha'i Faith. It says that it doesn't force itself upon everyone. It says a person's soul & what they do with it is between God and that person. It says, help, guide but the decision is each individual's. Even if that individual is your own daughter or son.

I know so many people that wanted to change religion and were disowned by their families!! Not Christian to Baha'i, not Muslim to Baha'i. I'm talking about from one sect of Christianity to another! I'm talking about from Islam to Buddhism! I'm talking about when someone doesn't believe in being part of a religion but still believes in God. You could say that THAT has something to say about a given religion. BUT I think it just has to do with the interpretation by people of the given religion.

Also, I can't remember who said this but the Baha'i Faith doesn't change what the Bible says to fit some sort of an agenda. There is no agenda except of that to unify mankind. Unify creation.

If that sounds really bad to you, that is ok. Sincerely!

Whether we agree or not, I am glad these conversations are occuring. It's refreshing.
Kaath

Sunnyvale, CA

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#16
Sep 30, 2008
 
Ex-bahai Now Christian wrote:
Baha'is argue that God has revealed one unchanging spiritual message to different peoples and cultures at different times, but the social laws change from age to age according to the needs of the time, which causes religions to appear different. But open-minded and scholarly research into comparative religion does not support such a theory.
This is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but my research into comparative religion over the past 34 years has only uncovered increasing support for the idea. The more I know about the history of religion the more certain I am that the Baha'i "theory" reflects reality. At the time I began this study I was a Christian. I am now a Bahai.
The religions of the world are truly different, and each one would be insulted by any suggestion that what makes them unique is only some temporary "social laws" ....
This is insupportable since the religions are not entities with personalities that can be insulted by any suggestion. I'm part of an interfaith group made up of a diverse array of members who are quite comfortable with their growing awareness of the similarities in our faiths.

I must ask is the prime mover in faith "uniqueness"? Since the manmade doctrines accreted to the teachings of the divine Messengers has encouraged followers in the belief that we must be exclusive owners of truth or salvation or some such -- I suppose that must be the key to understanding why YOU are insulted by this idea.
study the life of Muhammad and the early history of his religion -- They don't tell you many of the gory details in politically correct Islam 101 courses. Muhammad's rabid sex life and disrespect for women, his thirst for conquest and the spoils of war, ETC
No, actually, that was the history I was brought up with and it wasn't until I researched more deeply into the life of Muhammad that I realized how deep the lies went. Then, too, we are looking at that period of history from the "enlightened" 21st century. A century in which Christian faith (for example) is still held up to support racism and other forms of bigotry that Christ does not, in fact, teach.

The Bahai teaching of progressive revelation is supported by the Gospel writers. in fact. One example: Christ is asked why Moses gave a teaching on divorce that was "backward" enough that Christ changed it. "Moses gave you that teaching," Christ says, "because your hearts were hard. But from the beginning it was not so." He makes it clear that we are not given complete understanding with any single revelation. Then too, what we view as backward teachings now, were what was necessary to take that tiny step forward then.
(stories of Muhammad) when viewed alongside the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, serve as a powerful argument for the ultimate truth of Christianity.


Are you not aware that Christ was spoken of as scathingly by His detractors as Muhammad has been by His? He was written of as sexually depraved (He befriended prostitutes and tax collectors), and a drunkard, He was a blasphemer who broke the Sabbath, He was a closet Pharisee, the list is endless.

Christ said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." So I ask myself: If a community of people lived by the actual teachings of this Prophet, what would the fruits be? Atheist Bertrand Russell said once that if we all lived by the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount the world would be transformed. Likewise if people lived by the actual teachings of the Founders of their Faiths rather than manmade addenda the world would indeed be a different place.
Kaath

Sunnyvale, CA

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#17
Sep 30, 2008
 
Fatima wrote:
<quoted text>
They also say they are against all forms of prejudice, but yet gays are condemned by them and they shun convenant breakers who actually believe most of what they do.
The Bahai Faith does not condemn gays. The Bahai Faith is not in the business of condemning anyone. Even a cursory reading of Bahai scripture makes it clear that the duty of any Bahai toward any other person is to simply love them. We are not capable of judging nor are we given that right.

As to Covenant Breakers, Fatima, please ponder for a moment what the Islamic community might do to those who claim to believe in the Beloved Prophet Muhammad and yet seek the destruction of the Islamic community, or who seek to arrogate the right to themselves to make religious law. In the time of the Imams, what would have happened to an individual who said, "I believe in Muhammad, but I won't follow this Ali, who is His successor. I will set up my own way."

Right now, the Bahais of Iran are under attack from their own government simply because they believe that the promised Mahdi has already come and gone and that God has spoken to mankind since the time of Muhammad. They have been killed, stripped of their jobs, their homes, their legal rights. Their shrines have been destroyed and their community forced to suspend its institutions.

This does not concern you, yet it bothers you that a Bahai would simply avoid contact with someone who was attempting to subvert his faith?

What a difference in scale.
Midwesternstock

Seattle, WA

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#18
Oct 13, 2008
 

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Kaath,

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and research. I am the son of a Bahai, and my mother never forced nor encouraged any particular religion or faith. My path was always my choosing.

So many have claimed my mother to be part of a cult or to worship a false prophet. I find it sad yet encouraging that so many seem to just follow what they are told and never question anything. Baha'u'llah strongly encouraged each and everyone of us to search and question everything, but to be respectful and not judge others on our path in this life.

Thank you again,
Cheers.
Barmack

Gatineau, Canada

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#19
Oct 19, 2008
 
Peace Be with You

Ok well there are some words that may need clarity.

1) CULT
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
YOU ARE ALL IN A CULT by definition if you have a common ideology then ur in a Cult.

2Pologomy
1. the practice or condition of having more than one spouse
I dont see christianity or Islam having it.The word you may be looking for is POLYGYNY.

As far as a Religion of The Most High goes then you cant judge it. Examine to see whats really going on. To say a religion is wrong because of all the killing etc that it caused isnt even valid until you studied the books that are at the Core of the religion. One example is the Quran, stoning to death is mentioned in the Quran in the following verses.

11:91 They said:“O Shu’ayb, we do not understand most of what you say, and we see you as weak amongst us; and if it were not for who your family is, we would have stoned you, and you would not be proud against us.”

18:20 “If they discover you, they will stone you or return you to their creed. Then you will never be successful.”

19:46 He said:“Have you abandoned my gods O Abraham? If you do not stop this, I will stone you. Leave me alone.”

26:116 They said:“If you do not cease, O Noah, you will be among those who are stoned.”

36:18 They replied:“We have welcomed you better than you deserve. If you do not cease, we will stone you, and you will receive a painful retribution from us!”

44:20 “And I seek refuge in my Lord and your Lord, should you stone me.”

Stoning was a tool of the disbelievers.

God is teacher.
Peace Be With You.
Ali

United States

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#20
Oct 22, 2008
 
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to write to you.

I respect all of you and all the religions.

I would you like you to check this out (specailly the scientific miracles):

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/

Thank you.

Ali
unproclaimed

Piscataway, NJ

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#21
Oct 31, 2008
 

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Fatima wrote:
The Baha'i faith is false, these fools worship a man Bahaullah and not God!
..
This simply may be one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard. I'd be the first to stand up to somebody who mocked, and made thruthless assertions about the south. In fact, I hear this a lot, but I will not stoop to your level by mentioning them, although I'm tempted to call you some of these names. I, however, would never becasue it is created by people who know NOTHING, and therefore their IGNORANCE is evident. By you mocking any human's religion you are advancing this cycle of ignorance, and you are not treating others as you would like to be treated. THE GOLDEN RULE is a law of all faiths, therefore, your God is ashamed of you. You've embaressed not only the south and whichever religion you subscribe to, but mostly yourself; as if you had any idea of what you were talking about, you would know that Baha'i does in fact worship a god and it does not simply worship a mortal prophet. That would be almost the same thing as me saying that Muslims worshipped Muhammad and not a god or that Christians worship Jesus and no God- "such fools". You have no idea of what you are talking about and your argument is full of internal contradictions. Open your mind, learn not to hate, and educate yourself before spreading such ignorant detrimental statements, especially is they are as irrational and unfounded as the ones you have made.

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