Testament to freedom, from a Baha'i

Nov 8, 2008 | Posted by: belizerealtor | Full story: www.gazette.com

It's easy to take our religious freedoms in the U.S. for granted - until we hear accounts of religious persecution in other parts of the world....

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Black Sheep

Kansas City, MO

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#2
Nov 11, 2008
 

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judging from your demeaning, hateful, anti-Christian and American remarks - I'd say that you are in deep need of a reality check.

Anyone who knows anything about the history of this country, the world, and yes- even theological religious studies- can not question that this young country was successful because of high moral standards and a respect for "God", and being tolerant of other religions has allowed us to be united as Americans, allowing the freedom of speech to selfish anti-American and anti-Christian/anti-God religions and people groups to make residence along side of us here in the greatest country on the face of the globe. Unfortunately - as you can remember from September 11, 2001 (and other times and places)- tolerance will allow more than we really ought to. how many countless numbers of human lives have been lost because of radical muslims, islams, and hindus??

If you don't like that this country was founded on Christian values & Biblical principles- then I'd suggest that you move to a country that shares your anti-American & Christian opinions.
Pagan Earthling

Muskogee, OK

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#5
Nov 12, 2008
 

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Wow. Here we go. All this hatred in the name of religion!
I have a great deal of respect for Bahai's and their Faith. It is one of the peaceful religions and those a very few.
Beli Mawr

Farmington, NM

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#6
Nov 14, 2008
 

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"Wow. Here we go. All this hatred in the name of religion!"

I agree. I'm sure as a pagan, you get persecuted fairly often. I hope things are better for you lately. Maybe people will start to respect the 1st amendment soon-even real deal!

"t is one of the peaceful religions and those a very few. "

You might wanna check their history-each new bahai leader often killed his competitors and their compatriots. They are not exactly clean either.

Good luck, being a pagan!
Madison Reed

Morgantown, WV

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#7
Nov 15, 2008
 
Beli Mawr wrote:
"Wow. Here we go. All this hatred in the name of religion!"
I agree. I'm sure as a pagan, you get persecuted fairly often. I hope things are better for you lately. Maybe people will start to respect the 1st amendment soon-even real deal!
"t is one of the peaceful religions and those a very few. "
You might wanna check their history-each new bahai leader often killed his competitors and their compatriots. They are not exactly clean either.
Good luck, being a pagan!
Beli Mawr,

Where are you getting your far-out information? I've never heard of such a thing about Baha'is killing other Baha'is. It's not true.
Seeker

Muskogee, OK

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#8
Nov 17, 2008
 
Beli Mawr wrote:
"Wow. Here we go. All this hatred in the name of religion!"
I agree. I'm sure as a pagan, you get persecuted fairly often. I hope things are better for you lately. Maybe people will start to respect the 1st amendment soon-even real deal!
"t is one of the peaceful religions and those a very few. "
You might wanna check their history-each new bahai leader often killed his competitors and their compatriots. They are not exactly clean either.
Good luck, being a pagan!
You are the one who needs to research their history. Your allegations are not true.
Seeker

Muskogee, OK

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#9
Nov 17, 2008
 
Beli Mawr wrote:
"Wow. Here we go. All this hatred in the name of religion!"
I agree. I'm sure as a pagan, you get persecuted fairly often. I hope things are better for you lately. Maybe people will start to respect the 1st amendment soon-even real deal!
"t is one of the peaceful religions and those a very few. "
You might wanna check their history-each new bahai leader often killed his competitors and their compatriots. They are not exactly clean either.
Good luck, being a pagan!
Not only are your allegations untrue, but the Bahai's do not have a single leader. They have a Spiritual Assembly comprised of 9 individuals. No single person has the kind of power to order the deaths of ANYONE.
Beli Mawr

Farmington, NM

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#10
Nov 18, 2008
 
"but the Bahai's do not have a single leader. "

Not now, but they did-and each one took over from the last thru death, too, something my bahai friends were quick to point out. That may be different since shoghi Effendi, but that doesn't change the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai#Bah.C3.A1....

"`Abdu'l-Bahá appointed his eldest grandson, Shoghi Effendi, as the first Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith."

BTW, every religious group claims to be against violence and killing, yet not one so far has lived that out.
Beli Mawr

Farmington, NM

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#11
Nov 18, 2008
 
"Where are you getting your far-out information? I've never heard of such a thing about Baha'is killing other Baha'is."

After I left a Xian religious cult, a number of Bahais tried to recruit me, always misfiring by trying to appeal to me thru Xianity, which I wasn't very accepting of at the time. Nima Hazini told me a lot, as he was a fellow student at university, and further study on the web and talking to bahai's helped give me that info.

http://www.bahai-religion.org/history_baha.ht...

"Furthermore, in 1872 some Baha’is murdered the Azalis exiled to Palestine with Baha’ Allah and his followers. An early historian of the Babi and Baha’i religions, Edward Granville Browne, gave credence to the Azali claim that Baha’ Allah had sanctioned the murders and that his son ‘Abbas Effendi had actually requested the release of the guilty parties."

“Piss Off a liberal. Buy a Gun”

Since: Sep 08

Colorado Springs, CO

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#12
Nov 18, 2008
 
The REAL Deal wrote:
Screw the christians.These idiots wrote a new bible,forsaking god.Then,they kill millions in gods name.Then, they declare they want to rule the world. The world's biggest terrorist outfit.
Nothing but gutless cowards.Sheeple. Idiots without the courage to live thier own life. NEEDING the masses behind them. Christians are gutless cowards.
You sound like any other extremist. Full of hate and fearful of anyone who thinks or believes differently from you. What makes you any better or different than those that you are expressing your hatred for?
Madison Reed

Ashland, VA

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#13
Nov 18, 2008
 
Beli Mawr wrote:
"Where are you getting your far-out information? I've never heard of such a thing about Baha'is killing other Baha'is."
After I left a Xian religious cult, a number of Bahais tried to recruit me, always misfiring by trying to appeal to me thru Xianity, which I wasn't very accepting of at the time. Nima Hazini told me a lot, as he was a fellow student at university, and further study on the web and talking to bahai's helped give me that info.
http://www.bahai-religion.org/history_baha.ht...
"Furthermore, in 1872 some Baha’is murdered the Azalis exiled to Palestine with Baha’ Allah and his followers. An early historian of the Babi and Baha’i religions, Edward Granville Browne, gave credence to the Azali claim that Baha’ Allah had sanctioned the murders and that his son ‘Abbas Effendi had actually requested the release of the guilty parties."
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Good morning Beli Mawr!

Those were religious zealots who killed other religious zealots more than a 130 years ago! Baha'u'llah was never the type who would have sanctioned or instigated murder, even though his society, mid-19th Century Ottoman-Persian civilization was abyssmaly brutal and dark. Thousands of the earliest believers of our Faith were hacked to death, decapitated or suffered unspeakable types of cruelty at the hands of angry Shi'ih mobs. Qurratu'l-'Ayn, one of the early disciples of our faith's Herald, a young man whom we refer to as the Bab,(a title that means the 'Gate of God'), was strangled to death because she possessed within herself the spirit and truth to stand before a crowd of fanatic and coward Shi'ih Muslim believers, remove her veil and declare, "You can kill me as soon as you like, but you can't stop the emancipation of women!" She was hunted down, arrested and executed by suffocation. A crowd watched and cheered as the executioner wrapped a scarf around her perfumed neck and slowly twisted it until she died. She is also known as "Tahireh," which means the the Pure One. The influence of her remarkable spirit, no doubt inspired her later sisters in the West who started the Emancipation Movement. The Bab was later executed by Shi'ih militiamen......Continued below.
Madison Reed

Ashland, VA

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#14
Nov 18, 2008
 
Baha'u'llah, also a young man from a distinguished and respected Persian family, the Nuris of Mazandaran, had become a proponent of the Bab's new teachings, that predicted the appearance of the Promised One. Baha'u'llah's activity in the new faith of Persia, and his announcement that he was the Promised One that the Bab foretold, led to Baha'u'llah's exile and imprisonment, for the rest of his life, until he passed away quietly in Palestine in 1872. Although Baha'u'llah was a prisoner of the Ottoman state, he was beloved by hordes of people. Baha'is regard Baha'u'llah to be a universal manifestation of God - the spiritual teacher of the Age, anticipated by most of the world's religious traditions, an age that marks the commencement of the fulfillment of humanity's very great destiny. Despite the great beauty and love poured out into the world by Baha'u'llah, he had to spend most of his life in loneliness, as a prisoner, surrounded by a sea of cruelty and profound spiritual ignorance. His faith is now embraced by tens of thousands of ethnicities, races and nationalities throughout the world. His message is tolerant, full of hope and potential, and invites humanity to create the Most Great Peace. He is referred to as the "Lord of Hosts," the "Prince of Peace," the "return of the Father."

Your reference from bahai-religion.org , that you say implicates Baha'u'llah in ordering the killing of the supporters of Subh-i-Azal, has no support. It's just hearsay. Plus, at the end of the subject paragraph, the writer admits that the old Azali charge against Baha'u'llah is unlikely true. Did you read the entire paragraph? And what about implication that the Azali charge might be true since a distinguished University of Cambridge orientalist, Edward G. Browne, "might have" said so somewhere, sometime in the past? If that's true, where's the quote and its source?

Please read Browne's own words about his meeting with Baha'u'llah, at the Palace of Bahji in 1890:-
Madison Reed

Ashland, VA

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#15
Nov 18, 2008
 
"... my conductor paused for a moment while I removed my shoes. Then, with a quick movement of the hand, he withdrew, and, as I passed, replaced the curtain; and I found myself in a large apartment, along the upper end of which ran a low divan, while on the side opposite to the door were placed two or three chairs. Though I dimly suspected whither I was going and whom I was to behold (for no distinct intimation had been given to me), a second or two elapsed ere, with a throb of wonder and awe, I became definitely conscious that the room was not untenanted. In the corner where the divan met the wall sat a wondrous and venerable figure, crowned with a felt head-dress of the kind called 1taj1 by dervishes (but of unusual height and make), round the base of which was wound a small white turban. The face of him on whom I gazed I can never forget, though I cannot describe it. Those piercing eyes seemed to read one's very soul; power and authority sat on that ample brow; while the deep lines on the forehead and face implied an age which the jet-black hair and beard flowing down in indistinguishable luxuriance almost to the waist seemed to belie. No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!

A mild dignified voice bade me be seated, and then continued:-- "Praise be to God that thou has attained!... Thou has come to see a prisoner and an exile.... We desire but the good of the world and happiness of the nations; yet they deem us a stirrer up of strife and sedition worthy of bondage and banishment.... That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled -- what harm is there in this?... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the `Most Great Peace' shall come.... Do not you in Europe need this also? Is not this that which Christ foretold?... Yet do we see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind.... These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family.... Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind...."
Madison Reed

Ashland, VA

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#16
Nov 18, 2008
 
Such, so far as I can recall them, were the words which, besides many others, I heard from Beha. Let those who read them consider well with themselves whether such doctrines merit death and bonds, and whether the world is more likely gain or lose by their diffusion."

~Prof. Edward G. Browne

Beli Mawr, I share your outrage, and am with you all the way, in your disgust and distrust caused by the sickening track record of what we call religion. Religion is in a pitiful state now. We'd be better off living without it. It's blocking human advancement. From every quarter it's threatening world peace. Even the worldwide Baha'i community is beset with problems that affect our ability to offer a believable alternative to bad religion to the rest of the world. Religions' failure can't be blamed on religion itself though. It results from the limited level of intellectual and spiritual maturity of the people who are its adherents. And since religion is a gradually evolving process that emerges and is inseparable from the human cultural matrix, it will always be limited. That's why Baha'u'llah continually warned people not to cling to the outer form of religion, but rather seek the inner meaning of reality that can be found only through oneself with a detached mind and heart.

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