The Episcopal Church: The Way of Balaam

The Episcopal Church: The Way of Balaam

There are 95 comments on the www.virtueonline.org story from Mar 29, 2011, titled The Episcopal Church: The Way of Balaam. In it, www.virtueonline.org reports that:

On January 5, 2008, the new Episcopal Bishop of Nevada was blessed at his consecration by a Muslim Imam, a Hindu chaplain, a Bahai leader, a Jewish Rabbi as well as a Baptist minister and a Roman Catholic bishop.

In June of the previous year in the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, twin boys were baptized in a ceremony that used Jewish and Muslim blessings ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.virtueonline.org.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#21 Apr 2, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't seem to find the part where God "created" sin, evil and unrighteousness.
Did GOD give man free will?

You can't seem to find GOD or JESUS in your precious idolatry so I'm not surprised you can find nothing.

Let those with ears to hear..........

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#22 Apr 2, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did GOD give man free will?...
Yes, but what does that have to do with your claim that God "created" sin, evil and unrighteousness?

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#23 Apr 2, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but what does that have to do with your claim that God "created" sin, evil and unrighteousness?
Well He did grant you existence so a case could be made that has His hand in creating evil. LMAO!

What do you make of these lines?

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome.

If ”all things were made” by Him then you have to say that evil exists independently of God and that is disturbingly like Zoroasterism or evil is a part of God’s plan regarding the gift of ‘free will’. How else could God show His mercy and compassion if He didn’t need to ‘forgive’ us?

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#24 Apr 2, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't seem to find the part where God "created" sin, evil and unrighteousness.
Joe,

Scripture often makes statements by indirect reference.

Consider the ancient Hebrew myth of Creation and the birth of intelligence in Adam (the name given by the Hebrews to mankind).

God says, "But of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil that is in the middle of the garden, you shall not partake, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

Couple of questions:

The Calvarian view is that predestination is at work because of the omniscience of God. In other words, because God already knew of the existence of Good and Evil, God had created these aspects knowing that Mankind would eat of it and suffer the consequences.

Do you believe in predestination?

If you do not, having once been told not to do it, how long do you think that Adam and Eve went before their curiosity got the best of them and made them ultimately vulnerable to the Serpent's suggestions?

Third question: If God "knows" that something exists, does it exist?

"..and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the Cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life."

Did Christ Jesus enter the garden of Eden and partake of the Tree of Life and thereby "live forever" (as written in Gen. Ch. 3, V. 22)?

If he did, how did He get past the Cherubim and the flaming sword?

If He meant what He said by saying, "All these things that I do, so shall you do..." do you or should you expect to be able to get past the cherubim and the flaming sword?

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#25 Apr 2, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but what does that have to do with your claim that God "created" sin, evil and unrighteousness?
In response #24 above, I made reference to a "Calvarian" view of predestination.

Upon a review of this post, I realized a mistake. I meant to say "Calvinian view" as in John Calvin, french humanist lawyer and theologian, who had built upon the Augustinian point of view of the omniscience of God.

Please permit my correction. However, if my original word was "Calvarian," my misguided reference would point to the crucifixion and death of Christ on Calvary, wouldn't it?

Was the death of Christ on Calvary foretold by Christ? By anyone else?

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#26 Apr 2, 2011
RevKen wrote:
... Was the death of Christ on Calvary foretold by Christ? By anyone else?
Rev. Ken
The psalmists, but fortelling of sin isn't the same as creating it, or evil, or unrighteousness.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#27 Apr 3, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The psalmists, but fortelling of sin isn't the same as creating it, or evil, or unrighteousness.
Sorry, Joe. But, that answer doesn't get you off of the hook. either God is omniscient or God is not omniscient.

Likewise, either there really is such a thing or aspect of being that may be called "free will" or such "free will" is a human-defined distinction.

Evil does exist, Joe. How about acknowledging that Christ Jesus believed that sin and evil does exist, for starters. After you and I agree on this, we can enter into a reasonably intelligent discussion about the origin of evil.

That would be in keeping with the thread topic, except that it would not necessitate finger-pointing about who and what is more or less evil than any other or who may benefit appreciably more by repenting of some behavior that does not meet with the approval of a so-called and self-proclaimed "Christian."

RK
Think Again

Warsaw, NC

#28 Apr 3, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>

Third question: If God "knows" that something exists, does it exist?
"..and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the Cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life."
Did Christ Jesus enter the garden of Eden and partake of the Tree of Life and thereby "live forever" (as written in Gen. Ch. 3, V. 22)?
If he did, how did He get past the Cherubim and the flaming sword?
If He meant what He said by saying, "All these things that I do, so shall you do..." do you or should you expect to be able to get past the cherubim and the flaming sword?
Rev. Ken
Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why ask such sophmoric questions?
Think Again

Warsaw, NC

#29 Apr 3, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, Joe. But, that answer doesn't get you off of the hook. either God is omniscient or God is not omniscient.
Likewise, either there really is such a thing or aspect of being that may be called "free will" or such "free will" is a human-defined distinction.
Evil does exist, Joe. How about acknowledging that Christ Jesus believed that sin and evil does exist, for starters. After you and I agree on this, we can enter into a reasonably intelligent discussion about the origin of evil.
That would be in keeping with the thread topic, except that it would not necessitate finger-pointing about who and what is more or less evil than any other or who may benefit appreciably more by repenting of some behavior that does not meet with the approval of a so-called and self-proclaimed "Christian."
RK
Evil is the absence of good.

Some scripture to help you along.

Ezekiel 28:14-17 (English-NIV)
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

John 8:44 (English-NIV)
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#30 Apr 3, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, Joe. But, that answer doesn't get you off of the hook. either God is omniscient or God is not omniscient ...
M-Way claimed God created sin, but are you now saying that because He's all knowing, God is responsible for it as well?

If so, then I'm not the one on a hook here.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#31 Apr 3, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
M-Way claimed God created sin, but are you now saying that because He's all knowing, God is responsible for it as well?
If so, then I'm not the one on a hook here.
Did God create all things to work together for good?

How dare you divide what God created.

I never said God created sin, that's your wrong interpretation, as you already asked if I meant God created sin.

WE choose sin over God, as human beings.

WE let evil run rampant by doing nothing.

WE are the ones who Jesus taught to repay evil with good, just as His parent does.

God expects us to work toward bring the kingdom on earth, in heaven as on earth, eh?

A theologian you'll never be and it's doubtful you'll ever understand what being of follower of Jesus means..........

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#32 Apr 3, 2011
I wonder why God allows good things to happen to bad people and bad things to happen to good.

Perhaps it's His ability to overcome and bear with trouble until His timing is right for all involved...
Think Again

Warsaw, NC

#33 Apr 3, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did God create all things to work together for good?
How dare you divide what God created.
I never said God created sin, that's your wrong interpretation, as you already asked if I meant God created sin.
WE choose sin over God, as human beings.
WE let evil run rampant by doing nothing.
WE are the ones who Jesus taught to repay evil with good, just as His parent does.
God expects us to work toward bring the kingdom on earth, in heaven as on earth, eh?
A theologian you'll never be and it's doubtful you'll ever understand what being of follower of Jesus means..........
You forgot one that applies to you and TEC.

You promote sin to help satisfy human desires.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#34 Apr 3, 2011
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot one that applies to you and TEC.
You promote sin to help satisfy human desires.
LOL!

What sin Mr. Redwood?

The sin of loving all, good and evil, as Jesus commanded?

I know, it's toooooooo hard for a bigot and xenophobe.

Poor sad soul......

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#35 Apr 3, 2011
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
God is an indefinable mystery. However we are told that 'The Truth' will continue to be revealed to us as we grow in our understanding.
That 'truth' didn't end when a Roman Emperor decreed that the "Canon' be collected and finalized so that he could administer his new state cult more effectively.
John 4: 23-24
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
and John 15: 26-27
The Work of the Holy Spirit
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
and John 16: 12-14
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
i'm sorry, while your post is nice, and chocked full of bible verses, please be advises that we all have bibles and some of us have studied them in depth over the years. there are those among us, even, who have attended seminary and theology schools in an effort to dig deeper into the teachings of this wonderful book than is possible than through our local churches. the whole point is, however, that quoting verses out of it doesn't answer the questions which are asked of you. please back up and take another run at it... in your own erudite words, please.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#36 Apr 3, 2011
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why ask such sophmoric questions?
What's the matter, TA?

Are you afraid that someone else may get an insight into the real nature of Christ's message that you don't have?

And, if I said that I believe in the Trinity, without even knowing what your definition of the Trinity is, would you believe me?

RK

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#37 Apr 3, 2011
dances with weebles wrote:
<quoted text>
i'm sorry, while your post is nice, and chocked full of bible verses, please be advises that we all have bibles and some of us have studied them in depth over the years. there are those among us, even, who have attended seminary and theology schools in an effort to dig deeper into the teachings of this wonderful book than is possible than through our local churches. the whole point is, however, that quoting verses out of it doesn't answer the questions which are asked of you. please back up and take another run at it... in your own erudite words, please.
Dear Dances,

T McCabe likes to quote the bible to make her point. You would be wise and patient to look for her message, just as she has written it. Not everybody understands like you do and there are many who would be much more likely to gain a responsible point of view by taking her choice of scripture into advisement.

You'll not find her to be very far off the mark with any frequency.

RK

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#38 Apr 3, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did God create all things to work together for good?
How dare you divide what God created.
I never said God created sin, that's your wrong interpretation, as you already asked if I meant God created sin ...
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Evil is necessary and created by God, how else can light trump is there is no dark?...
And ...
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did God create all or not?...
See post #13.

“For this reason...”

Since: Feb 10

Marriage = Man + Woman 4 Life

#39 Apr 3, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
T McCabe likes to quote the bible to make her point.
Despite her stated opinion that it is an erroneous text devoid of the actual teachings of Christ.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#40 Apr 3, 2011
WotMeWorry wrote:
<quoted text>
Despite her stated opinion that it is an erroneous text devoid of the actual teachings of Christ.
Wot,

T McCabe's message is way too subtle for the likes of you.

In fact, one might reasonably doubt that a wild herd of stampeding buffalo tattooed and branded with the Gospel of Christ Jesus could run you over and have you sit up and take notice of the message so delivered.

No sense in trying to provoke her or, alternatively, to entice either MiddleWay or me to come to her aid. Both of us together could hardly bring an ounce of grace greater than that which she levels so effortlessly onto you with such devastating results, though I dare say, you are quite unaware of it.

Her faith is a Mighty Fortress in Christ.

She is Professor Higgins and you, my dear Wot, are Eliza Doolittle, long before the rain in Spain fell mainly on the plain.

RK

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