The Episcopal Church: The Way of Balaam

Mar 29, 2011 | Posted by: Joe DeCaro | Full story: www.virtueonline.org

On January 5, 2008, the new Episcopal Bishop of Nevada was blessed at his consecration by a Muslim Imam, a Hindu chaplain, a Bahai leader, a Jewish Rabbi as well as a Baptist minister and a Roman Catholic bishop.

In June of the previous year in the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, twin boys were baptized in a ceremony that used Jewish and Muslim blessings ...
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Mar 29, 2011
 

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from virtueonline:

"The Episcopal bishop of Washington, John Chane in speaking of relations between different faiths, states that 'we all worship the same God', but when we turn to the church fathers, we find an entirely different opinion. When Bishop Polycarp wrote to the emperor Trajan in AD 155/6, the accusations against him included the charge of atheism, because the Christians did not acknowledge or worship the gods of the Greco-Roman culture.

"The Bible makes it clear that the God of the Bible is not the same as the pagan gods or gods of the nations. If we conceive of God wrongly, our god is an idol, writes Doveton."
Baabs

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Mar 29, 2011
 

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Of Course we worship the same God know by different names and forms throughout planet earth. Who beleives differently only wishes to present his concept of God in a superior way.

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Mar 29, 2011
 

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Virtue is an Anglican Blogger that is extremely anti-Episcopalian.

From the article:

In June of the previous year in the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, twin boys were baptized in a ceremony that used Jewish and Muslim blessings.

Here is real TEC news. www.epsicopalchurch.org

From The Episcopal News Service:

House of Bishops daily account, March 28
March 28, 2011

"The topic for the day was: Who is my neighbor? Islam and Christianity."

and later

"In the afternoon, the conversation about Islam and Christianity continued with Bishops Joe Burnett of Nebraska and Tom Shaw of Massachusetts telling of activities in their dioceses.

Burnett presented a film and spoke about the Tri-Faith Initiative in Omaha, Nebraska, a five-year initiative calling for the sharing of a campus for an Episcopal Church, a Muslim mosque, a Jewish synagogue and a shared, multi-service educational building. The project is "on the verge of taking giant steps forward."

Shaw talked about the Boston cathedral opening its basement to allow space for Muslims to adhere to their prayer order. He shared that he met a Muslim man who has prayed at the Cathedral since before September 11, 2001, and how the community felt protected in the aftermath.

The bishops discussed three questions:

The last two promises of the baptismal covenant ask us to seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving our neighbors as ourselves; and to strive for justice and peace among all people, and respect the dignity of every human being. How might these promises be fulfilled in efforts to deepen relationships with members of other faith traditions, particularly Islam?

Given the fact that polls show a sharp increase in prejudice toward Islam and persons of Islamic faith in this country, what specific steps might you take in your diocese to combat this prejudice, and also to support, affirm and partner with other faith traditions, especially Islam, in a way that would further God's mission in the world?

How can we "seek and serve Christ in all persons" in such ways that would lead us to understand increasing religious diversity as a gift and a promise, rather than as a threat or a challenge?
Various bishops shared experiences from their own dioceses."

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

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#4
Mar 29, 2011
 
LOL - Sorry - www.episcopalchurch.org or Google - Episcopal News Service

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Mar 29, 2011
 

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T McCabe wrote:
LOL - Sorry - www.episcopalchurch.org or Google - Episcopal News Service
There have always been accusers. Their methods are simple enough. No one can explain God.

When you are required to explain God by someone who claims to be more orthodox than yourself, verifying their claim by placing their own source of authority in an idol, you are encountering the classic accuser.

Jesus encountered such. Eventually they crucified Him. But, Jesus overcame death and his accusers and then invited us to do exactly the same thing by following Him.

I find it very interesting that Christians extoll the virtues of the Three Wise Kings, Zoroastrian Masters, who, through interpretation of zodiacal signs and guided by a Star and heralded by Angels, came to pay homage to the Christ Child. Furthermore, we acknowledge the importance of their visit. Their gifts served to provide for the young family in their successful escape into Egypt away from the clutches and sabres of Herod.

Everything about this wonderful story flies in the face of the David Virtues and the accusers.

RK

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#6
Mar 30, 2011
 
T McCabe wrote:
Virtue is an Anglican Blogger ...
And TEC is a member of the Anglican Communion.
George

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#7
Mar 30, 2011
 
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
There have always been accusers. Their methods are simple enough. No one can explain God.
When you are required to explain God by someone who claims to be more orthodox than yourself, verifying their claim by placing their own source of authority in an idol, you are encountering the classic accuser.
Jesus encountered such. Eventually they crucified Him. But, Jesus overcame death and his accusers and then invited us to do exactly the same thing by following Him......RK
I would appreciate it if you might explain how you think the above statement comports with how Jesus responded to Satan's temptations in the wilderness. His response was invariably to rebuke Satan with God's revealed word as set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures. Did Jesus source authority in an idol (i.e., Scripture) as McCabe is fond of calling it? Or is the Bible authoritative with respect to its revelation about the nature and character of God?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

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Mar 30, 2011
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
And TEC is a member of the Anglican Communion.
Yawn, did you find the word 'orthodox' in Scripture yet or do just like pretending you are superior to others?

I'm sorry joline, your seat is at the kiddie table....

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#9
Mar 30, 2011
 
George wrote:
<quoted text>
I would appreciate it if you might explain how you think the above statement comports with how Jesus responded to Satan's temptations in the wilderness. His response was invariably to rebuke Satan with God's revealed word as set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures. Did Jesus source authority in an idol (i.e., Scripture) as McCabe is fond of calling it? Or is the Bible authoritative with respect to its revelation about the nature and character of God?
Evil is necessary and created by God, how else can light trump is there is no dark?

If God wanted Satan 'smited', He have done it.......

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Mar 30, 2011
 
George wrote:
<quoted text>
I would appreciate it if you might explain how you think the above statement comports with how Jesus responded to Satan's temptations in the wilderness. His response was invariably to rebuke Satan with God's revealed word as set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures. Did Jesus source authority in an idol (i.e., Scripture) as McCabe is fond of calling it? Or is the Bible authoritative with respect to its revelation about the nature and character of God?
George,

In a following post, MiddleWay makes the point that evil is a necessity. I don't know that I would put it exactly that way. I think that I am more comfortable saying that evil is a reality. Evil does exist. Necessity? Maybe so.

No one was there when Jesus rebuked Satan. Except Jesus and Satan. Or maybe there were witnesses in the Spirit that later were able to recount the events, relating them through revelation in the Spirit to others. Maybe Jesus himself related the story to His disciples. Eventually, the story is written through the Gospels.

I have never said that Holy Scripture is without intrinsic value. What must be realized is that Holy Scripture has many different values and uses. It is somewhat of a roadmap to Illumination (the Rebirth) and Self Realization (the experience of God Consciousness). Holy Scripture contains stories and myths that have a basis in historical fact as well as parallels in the experiences of the human being, while this being progresses through the initiations of life.

Holy Scripture is a wonderfully complex tapestry of the epochs of Communion between God and Mankind. It is a record of the Word of God in conversation with Man.

In certain rituals conducted by Episcopalians and others, the initiate is asked if he or she believes Scripture to be the Word of God. To be an acceptable candidate and to pass this point of resolution in the ritual, the initiate is required to pronounce that he or she believes that Holy Scripture is the Word of God. You can answer this truthfully and say, emphatically, YES!

At the exact concurrent moment of this proclamation, you can hold the understanding that the Word of God is the Living Christ Jesus, who cannot be contained or constrained to exist betweeen the covers of any book.

Furthermore, you can also come into the understanding, at that very moment, that you yourself, at and within the very depths of your being - at your very core - are yourself, this same Christ. Consider your question, above.

Jesus goes into a self-imposed reclusion in the desert. There, he reaches into the depths of his own being and the structure of his faith. He divides himself from his doubts and is then confronted by an actual entity who tempts him to prove his faith. He bans the adversary. But, the Scripture reads that this banning is temporary. Yet, we understand Jesus to be achieving a state of Human Perfection. He recites Scripture as justification for refusing to comply with the adversary. Scripture is his tool of choice. But, the work and the initiation is going on within himself.

Think of it, George, as a plant or a tree. We study the Tree of Life. We learn of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Jesus refers to himself as the Vine. You and I are supposed to go out into the Vinyard and harvest the grapes - the souls of mankind - to bring them to the presses. But, what we are really doing is going within the Vinyard of our own Self.

Each of us is at a different place on Jacob's Ladder, the Path of the Initiate, the Way of Christ. Each of us is like a plant with its parts and at the core and top, an "apical meristem." It is this apical meristem that contains the DNA and the Plan and the Ultimate manifestation of the Plant, and yet, the plant has not reached its ultimate development stage.

Jesus himself, as advanced as he was, as far up the ladder toward perfection as he was, still had to go through the initiation of Baptism. Again.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

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MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Evil is necessary ...
Are you misquoting Julian of Norwich when she wrote that "sin is necessary," or better, "inevitable"?

"But all will be well ... and all manner of things will be well".

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
I would appreciate it if you might explain how you think the above statement comports with how Jesus responded to Satan's temptations in the wilderness. His response was invariably to rebuke Satan with God's revealed word as set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures. Did Jesus source authority in an idol (i.e., Scripture) as McCabe is fond of calling it? Or is the Bible authoritative with respect to its revelation about the nature and character of God?
God is an indefinable mystery. However we are told that 'The Truth' will continue to be revealed to us as we grow in our understanding.

That 'truth' didn't end when a Roman Emperor decreed that the "Canon' be collected and finalized so that he could administer his new state cult more effectively.

John 4: 23-24

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

and John 15: 26-27

The Work of the Holy Spirit

26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

and John 16: 12-14

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

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#13
Apr 1, 2011
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you misquoting Julian of Norwich when she wrote that "sin is necessary," or better, "inevitable"?
"But all will be well ... and all manner of things will be well".
Did God create all or not?

Have you forgotten what Matthew wrote: Matthew 5

He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Funny how God makes all things work together for His glory, even you....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

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#14
Apr 1, 2011
 
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
George,
In a following post, MiddleWay makes the point that evil is a necessity. I don't know that I would put it exactly that way. I think that I am more comfortable saying that evil is a reality. Evil does exist. Necessity? Maybe so.
No one was there when Jesus rebuked Satan. Except Jesus and Satan. Or maybe there were witnesses in the Spirit that later were able to recount the events, relating them through revelation in the Spirit to others. Maybe Jesus himself related the story to His disciples. Eventually, the story is written through the Gospels.
I have never said that Holy Scripture is without intrinsic value. What must be realized is that Holy Scripture has many different values and uses. It is somewhat of a roadmap to Illumination (the Rebirth) and Self Realization (the experience of God Consciousness). Holy Scripture contains stories and myths that have a basis in historical fact as well as parallels in the experiences of the human being, while this being progresses through the initiations of life.
Holy Scripture is a wonderfully complex tapestry of the epochs of Communion between God and Mankind. It is a record of the Word of God in conversation with Man.
In certain rituals conducted by Episcopalians and others, the initiate is asked if he or she believes Scripture to be the Word of God. To be an acceptable candidate and to pass this point of resolution in the ritual, the initiate is required to pronounce that he or she believes that Holy Scripture is the Word of God. You can answer this truthfully and say, emphatically, YES!
At the exact concurrent moment of this proclamation, you can hold the understanding that the Word of God is the Living Christ Jesus, who cannot be contained or constrained to exist betweeen the covers of any book.
Furthermore, you can also come into the understanding, at that very moment, that you yourself, at and within the very depths of your being - at your very core - are yourself, this same Christ. Consider your question, above.
Jesus goes into a self-imposed reclusion in the desert. There, he reaches into the depths of his own being and the structure of his faith. He divides himself from his doubts and is then confronted by an actual entity who tempts him to prove his faith. He bans the adversary. But, the Scripture reads that this banning is temporary. Yet, we understand Jesus to be achieving a state of Human Perfection. He recites Scripture as justification for refusing to comply with the adversary. Scripture is his tool of choice. But, the work and the initiation is going on within himself.
Think of it, George, as a plant or a tree. We study the Tree of Life. We learn of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Jesus refers to himself as the Vine. You and I are supposed to go out into the Vinyard and harvest the grapes - the souls of mankind - to bring them to the presses. But, what we are really doing is going within the Vinyard of our own Self.
Each of us is at a different place on Jacob's Ladder, the Path of the Initiate, the Way of Christ. Each of us is like a plant with its parts and at the core and top, an "apical meristem." It is this apical meristem that contains the DNA and the Plan and the Ultimate manifestation of the Plant, and yet, the plant has not reached its ultimate development stage.
Jesus himself, as advanced as he was, as far up the ladder toward perfection as he was, still had to go through the initiation of Baptism. Again.
Rev. Ken
Brilliant.

Al of us believe as our experience teaches, those who have never experienced God or the Messiah Jesus are standing on shifting sand...

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

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#15
Apr 1, 2011
 
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
God is an indefinable mystery. However we are told that 'The Truth' will continue to be revealed to us as we grow in our understanding.
That 'truth' didn't end when a Roman Emperor decreed that the "Canon' be collected and finalized so that he could administer his new state cult more effectively.
John 4: 23-24
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
and John 15: 26-27
The Work of the Holy Spirit
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
and John 16: 12-14
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
Indeed, or to put it in a nutshell, God is Love....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

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#16
Apr 1, 2011
 
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
George,
In a following post, MiddleWay makes the point that evil is a necessity. I don't know that I would put it exactly that way. I think that I am more comfortable saying that evil is a reality. Evil does exist. Necessity? Maybe so.
No one was there when Jesus rebuked Satan. Except Jesus and Satan. Or maybe there were witnesses in the Spirit that later were able to recount the events, relating them through revelation in the Spirit to others. Maybe Jesus himself related the story to His disciples. Eventually, the story is written through the Gospels.
I have never said that Holy Scripture is without intrinsic value. What must be realized is that Holy Scripture has many different values and uses. It is somewhat of a roadmap to Illumination (the Rebirth) and Self Realization (the experience of God Consciousness). Holy Scripture contains stories and myths that have a basis in historical fact as well as parallels in the experiences of the human being, while this being progresses through the initiations of life.
Holy Scripture is a wonderfully complex tapestry of the epochs of Communion between God and Mankind. It is a record of the Word of God in conversation with Man.
In certain rituals conducted by Episcopalians and others, the initiate is asked if he or she believes Scripture to be the Word of God. To be an acceptable candidate and to pass this point of resolution in the ritual, the initiate is required to pronounce that he or she believes that Holy Scripture is the Word of God. You can answer this truthfully and say, emphatically, YES!
At the exact concurrent moment of this proclamation, you can hold the understanding that the Word of God is the Living Christ Jesus, who cannot be contained or constrained to exist betweeen the covers of any book.
Furthermore, you can also come into the understanding, at that very moment, that you yourself, at and within the very depths of your being - at your very core - are yourself, this same Christ. Consider your question, above.
Jesus goes into a self-imposed reclusion in the desert. There, he reaches into the depths of his own being and the structure of his faith. He divides himself from his doubts and is then confronted by an actual entity who tempts him to prove his faith. He bans the adversary. But, the Scripture reads that this banning is temporary. Yet, we understand Jesus to be achieving a state of Human Perfection. He recites Scripture as justification for refusing to comply with the adversary. Scripture is his tool of choice. But, the work and the initiation is going on within himself.
Think of it, George, as a plant or a tree. We study the Tree of Life. We learn of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Jesus refers to himself as the Vine. You and I are supposed to go out into the Vinyard and harvest the grapes - the souls of mankind - to bring them to the presses. But, what we are really doing is going within the Vinyard of our own Self.
Each of us is at a different place on Jacob's Ladder, the Path of the Initiate, the Way of Christ. Each of us is like a plant with its parts and at the core and top, an "apical meristem." It is this apical meristem that contains the DNA and the Plan and the Ultimate manifestation of the Plant, and yet, the plant has not reached its ultimate development stage.
Jesus himself, as advanced as he was, as far up the ladder toward perfection as he was, still had to go through the initiation of Baptism. Again.
Rev. Ken
Brilliant!

Each of us believe according to our experience of God and those who have not experienced God or the Messiah Jesus are standing on shifting sand........

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

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#17
Apr 1, 2011
 
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
God is an indefinable mystery. However we are told that 'The Truth' will continue to be revealed to us as we grow in our understanding.
That 'truth' didn't end when a Roman Emperor decreed that the "Canon' be collected and finalized so that he could administer his new state cult more effectively.
John 4: 23-24
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
and John 15: 26-27
The Work of the Holy Spirit
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
and John 16: 12-14
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
Indeed or to ut it simply, God is love.

And TOPIX is still f'ed up..........

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

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MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Brilliant.
Al of us believe as our experience teaches, those who have never experienced God or the Messiah Jesus are standing on shifting sand...
Ditto!

And now a word from Christ Jesus.

John 10:15-17

15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

I love the 'Communion of Saints'! Only Christ Jesus knows who they are and what they believe!

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MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Brilliant.
Al of us believe as our experience teaches, those who have never experienced God or the Messiah Jesus are standing on shifting sand...
Amen, brother!

Thanks for expressing agreement and understanding. Once one has had Jesus tap him or her on the shoulder or simply leave the indelible impression that you have been held for a moment in His gaze, that person is likely branded to the core and can no longer doubt; even though he or she doubts just like Thomas doubted, the touch of the Master keeps coming back.

RK

“... truth will out.”

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MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did God create all or not?
Have you forgotten what Matthew wrote: Matthew 5
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous ...
I can't seem to find the part where God "created" sin, evil and unrighteousness.

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