Speak Up Against Baha'i Discrimination Against Homosexuals - The Petition Site

Sep 27, 2008 | Posted by: belizerealtor | Full story: www.thepetitionsite.com

Target of petition: The Universal House of Justice, Haifa, Israel [Baha'i supreme administrative body

The Baha'i Faith , a world religion that espouses many beautiful, forward thinking ideas, also unfortunately overtly condemns homosexuality and teaches that it is a....

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Kaath

Sunnyvale, CA

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#1
Oct 2, 2008
 

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Dear friend, the House of Justice can't rewrite the laws of Baha'u'llah. That is not within their power. So a petition would accomplish nothing.

The House of Justice has written that homosexuality is "not a condition to which a person should be reconciled." But also states: "To regard homosexuals with prejudice and disdain would be entirely against the spirit of Baha'i Teachings. The doors are open for all of humanity to enter the Cause of God, irrespective of their present circumstances; this invitation applies to homosexuals as well as to any others who are engaged in practices contrary to the Baha'i Teachings."

We live in a culture that encourages us to put our sexuality and sexual identity at the center of our lives as if that were the heart of our existence. The soul -- the real us -- is genderless.

Baha'u'llah has stated that the best conduit for the expression of our sexuality is within monogamous marriage between one man and one woman. The spiritual rationale for this may be the same as the spiritual rationale for any behavior that humans find pleasurable but that is "out of bounds" in religion. And it is just as "limiting" to heterosexual behaviors as it is to homosexual ones. Current medical literature also already suggests practical reasons for this being the ideal, although the discussion of these issues is very quiet given a growing social acceptance of the "gay lifestyle."

This raises the rather interesting question, too, of why we should follow any restrictions imposed by any faith. Should religion be run by popular vote, perhaps, with the believers deciding based on the current societal trends which laws should be obeyed and which ignored?
Danny

Seattle, WA

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#2
Oct 2, 2008
 

Judged:

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gay_m...

I refuse to accept this faith's teachings. Click on the above linke and you'll know why.
Don

Seattle, WA

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#3
Oct 2, 2008
 
As a non-believer, this religion has no spiritual authority over me and I totally reject it.

“Humans are God's agents”

Since: May 07

USA

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#4
Oct 4, 2008
 
Kaath wrote:
Baha'u'llah has stated that the best conduit for the expression of our sexuality is within monogamous marriage between one man and one woman.
Just as the club used by Christians in their relentless assault of homosexuals stems from a mostly deliberate contextual misrepresentation of biblical passages fed to the uninformed flock by church leaders who benefit from the cultivation of anti-gay sentiment, the uninformed among the Baha'is are being fed the same, for similar reasons. The Baha'i World Center is full of homosexuals. Homosexual Baha'is are spread throughout the world. There were closeted homosexual Hands of the Cause of God. It's been suggested from high places that the First Gardian of the Baha'i Faith was homosexual. Everyone keeps a wrap on this though.
Shoghi Effendi, the first Guardian, is the only source to my knowledge of any condemnation of homosexuality. But even that information was written by his secretary. Although it is believed that since this was Shoghi Effendi's interpretation of certain statements by Baha'u'llah that Effendi said meant a condemnation of homosexuality, a Guardian is not a scientist or a geneticist, and cannot carry his "infallible" interpretive guidance into the arena of science. This is proscribed according to Shoghi Effendi himself.
Besides that, neither was Baha'u'llah a scientist. He was a Manifestation of God, a Divine Physician who came into the world to heal us of our spiritual ills, to re-establish the foundations of divine religion, because religion had become a curse to mankind. His mission was spiritual. His life's context was very different than the modern western context that has much greater understanding of homosexuality than did mid-19th century Persia. Baha'u'llah did in fact condemn the practice of anal sex, and pedarasty, the Greco-Persian custom of straight males taking boys for their sexual pleasure to maintain "chastity" before marriage. It is a widespread Iranian practice. Even the late Ayatollah Khomeini instructed men on the proper use of boys for that purpose. It is accepted in Iran. Baha'u'llah said that it was unacceptable.
The question that needs to be asked is: Did Baha'u'llah specifically condemn homosexuality? I've been a Baha'i for 27 years. I've never seen any evidence of it, yet the Baha'i community has alienated its gay members. I'd love to know where Kaath gets her information. I'd like to see something substantive other than the same old worn out arguments that are all over the Internet, but not taken seriously by people who know what the truth is.
Baha'is, just like people of previous religious dispensations, are afflicted by the same limitations and prejudices.
Just a Thought

Cerritos, CA

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#5
Nov 12, 2008
 
It has been a fundamental belief of many societies and religions throughout history that marriage is the union of a man and a women for the procreation(breeding)of children as its' fundamental principle. A monogamous relationship (one mate) was essential to the stronghold of family life. This is evident in the Psychological development and well-being of children that we see in today's society where the sanctuary of marriage is not respected and a large number of children are the victims of broken homes. Safeguards were developed in current laws to protect families so that the centers of society (family unit) would be protected, mainly for the children's sake.

To try and redefine the definition of marriage is not necessary or practical. Two women or Two men cannot breed together in the traditional sense. They can have children through adoption, artificial insemination, etc. None married straight individuals, as well as couples, can do the same thing and still not have the same rights as married couples. There are multitudes of heterosexual partners living together who suffer indignation because they are sleeping together outside the sanctuary of marriage. I have even heard women called whores for living with a man outside of marriages (they look at it as the man is providing for the woman and the woman is giving him sex - to them it is like receiving gifts or money for sex which is the definition of a prostitute). These are usually very loving partnerships and these people are made to feel horrible and at times have to hide the nature of their living conditions as to not be ridiculed as being immoral. Women in general have been chastised throughout history for giving themselves to a man outside of marriage and therefore were tainted. In some cases they are put out or put to death. Just because we don't agree with the limitations of a definition doesn't mean that we change it to fit our purpose. In most cases, we create something new. I don't believe in changing the definition of marriage for that is like changing history (it's historical meaning). This has been done to the bible. Some christian sects didn't like the verbage of the King James version and therefore modernized the language. To me that is like taking Shakespeare and rewriting it in modern language. You basically deface apart of history. That doesn't mean that you don't move forward though.
What is necessary is that laws change to allow for people to care and protect each other. It isn't marriage itself that is the main issue here, it is the benefits and laws that are allotted (to give something to somebody as a share of what is available or what has to be done) to the people who are married. Domestic Partnership Law gives gays nearly the same benefits as those who are married. I also think that people should be allowed to provide health insurance to those they love eventhough they are not married or dependants. Enough of this...you get the drift.

Why is it that we need to be defined the way someone else is defined in order to be ligitimatized? We don't need that. By redefining marriage to incorporate gays isn't going to make them more legitimate in the eyes of those who don't believe marriage should be redefined. The definition or meaning of marriage has more depth to it than it's fundamental purpose of breeding. To love and to hold till death do we part...in sickness and health, for better or worse... these commitments that we make to the people we love doesn't have to be indorsed by anyone! Again, it is the benefits of the law that those who aren't married feel left out of. That goes for any couple, gay or straight, that is not married.
Kavian Milani

Thailand

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#6
Jan 19, 2009
 

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According to the late Mildred Mottahedeh, who was personal friend to both he and his wife, Shoghi
Yes, I am with the friends.

Why it is not allowed when Shoghi Effendi and Abdul Baha were both Homosexuals ?

Effendi was a life-long homosexual who struggled with his orientation. There are also suggestions that George Townsend was Shoghi Effendi's lover at one point. Note that Fayzullah Sobhi states that Abbas Effendi was homosexual, but he is the only known source for that allegation. According to unpublished letters of Abdu'l-Husayn AYATI Avarih - memos that he inexplicably did not
publish in his Kashf'ul-Hiyal - there are also suggestions that Shoghi Effendi was gay. Ruhi Afnan, his cousin, is said to have also suggested the same thing about him.

“Humans are God's agents”

Since: May 07

USA

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#7
Jan 19, 2009
 
Thank you for your comments Kavian.

A friend told me once that Mrs. Mottahedeh told others that her close friend Ruhiyyih Khanum had confided in her about Shoghi Effendi's homosexuality. Apparently there was no doubt about it. I do not believe these people would lie about that, because they're all good people, unprejudiced, and faithful followers of Baha'u'llah.
Kavian Milani

Fairfax, VA

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#8
Feb 4, 2009
 
I am Kavian Milani and the above attribution is not anything I said, and can only emanate from a diseased mind.

The Baha'i Faith is a wonderful, spiritual, mystical experience that is insulted by those who wish to keep humanity in the spiritual dark ages.

Kavian Milani

“Humans are God's agents”

Since: May 07

USA

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#9
Feb 7, 2009
 
Hello Kavian,

I'm sorry for the imposter using your name. Unfortunately it's a problem on many forums. Please send a complaint to topixadmin@topix.net

While I agree with your description of the Baha'i Faith as being a "wonderful, spiritual, mystical experience," I do not agree that the imposter has insulted the Baha'i Faith or is helping to keep "humanity in the spiritual dark ages" by bringing up the topic of the alleged homosexuality of anyone, including Shoghi Effendi or 'Abdu'l-Baha'. I'll admit, that 'Abdu'l-Baha' being homosexual sounds pretty far out to me, but it could be a possibility. Why do you consider it an insult to ask these questions?

Why do Baha'is not openly discuss the very severe problem of how it deals with its homosexual believers? Iranians of all people should be tolerant of homosexuals, since it's known to be the gayest of all Islamic countries. Don't you agree? What are your personal views about homosexuality, homosexual love, and homosexual same-sex marriage Kavian?

Why do Baha'is avoid getting to the bottom of what Baha'u'llah really says or doesn't say in the 'Aqdas, and deal with its implications?

Baha'is don't believe that Manifestations of God or Guardians are scientists, do we? The subject of homosexuality is not a moral issue. Is it? It is a biological, scientific issue. Is it not?

Within that light, we need to reflect upon what our Faith's real position is on the subject.
History

Circle Pines, MN

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#10
Mar 17, 2009
 
Danny wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H istory_of_gay_men_in_Nazi_Germ any_and_the_Holocaust
I refuse to accept this faith's teachings. Click on the above linke and you'll know why.
I dont see the connection... Baha'is are taught to be respectful of homosexuals, it's in the holy book.
Terry

Eufaula, AL

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#11
Mar 18, 2009
 
Kavian Milani wrote:
According to the late Mildred Mottahedeh, who was personal friend to both he and his wife, Shoghi
Yes, I am with the friends.
Why it is not allowed when Shoghi Effendi and Abdul Baha were both Homosexuals ?
Effendi was a life-long homosexual who struggled with his orientation. There are also suggestions that George Townsend was Shoghi Effendi's lover at one point. Note that Fayzullah Sobhi states that Abbas Effendi was homosexual, but he is the only known source for that allegation. According to unpublished letters of Abdu'l-Husayn AYATI Avarih - memos that he inexplicably did not
publish in his Kashf'ul-Hiyal - there are also suggestions that Shoghi Effendi was gay. Ruhi Afnan, his cousin, is said to have also suggested the same thing about him.
your Information is 100% FALSE and not worthy of a reply
Terry

Eufaula, AL

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#12
Mar 18, 2009
 
History wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont see the connection... Baha'is are taught to be respectful of homosexuals, it's in the holy book.
In the Bahai Faith Homosexuality is still Classified as a mental Illness...

it is not normal behavior
Terry

Eufaula, AL

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#13
Mar 18, 2009
 
36. or adultery # 19

The Arabic word “ziná”, here translated as “adultery”, signifies both fornication and adultery. It applies not only to sexual relations between a married person and someone who is not his or her spouse, but also to extramarital sexual intercourse in general. One form of “ziná” is rape. The only penalty prescribed by Bahá’u’lláh is for those who commit fornication (see note 77); penalties for other kinds of sexual offence are left to the Universal House of Justice to determine.
Terry

Eufaula, AL

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#14
Mar 18, 2009
 
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KA/ka-151.h... #

134. the subject of boys # 107

The word translated here as “boys” has, in this context, in the Arabic original, the implication of paederasty. Shoghi Effendi has interpreted this reference as a prohibition on all homosexual relations.
The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.
In a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi it is stated:
No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá’u’lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature. To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.
Bahá’u’lláh makes provision for the Universal House of Justice to determine, according to the degree of the offence, penalties for adultery and sodomy (Q and A 49).
Rose

Los Angeles, CA

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#15
Mar 18, 2009
 

Judged:

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I think the Baha'i teachings on this matter are disgusting. BUT I don't think it is our place as outsiders to tell them what we think their beliefs should be. (As long as they don't try to impose them on others.)
DCM

Madrid, Spain

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#16
Mar 22, 2009
 
Men have created god and invented religion. That is some men have written down their interpretations of what is right or wrong. Then they have wrapped their ideas in a garment called religion, which later turns out to be a big business. Since human beings die, these men try to influence societies and their institutions via a Holy Book, art, literature, music, science, rituals, calendars, laws and so on.
To understand homosexuality requires a deeper understanding of how some men and women differ biologically/genetically from others. Procreation cannot be the only reason for our existence - too many human beings are born and live in misery while the temples, gardens, library, and other symbols of wealth and power are treated far better than these souls. Which means that Bah'u'llah, Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi did not fully grasp the essence of homosexuality. If they did, I doubt they would speak out in favor of homosexuals - numbers become very important. Moreover, when religious leaders collaborate with any government, it is to protect their interests, not the members unless challenged.....
belizerealtor wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as the club used by Christians in their relentless assault of homosexuals stems from a mostly deliberate contextual misrepresentation of biblical passages fed to the uninformed flock by church leaders who benefit from the cultivation of anti-gay sentiment, the uninformed among the Baha'is are being fed the same, for similar reasons. The Baha'i World Center is full of homosexuals. Homosexual Baha'is are spread throughout the world. There were closeted homosexual Hands of the Cause of God. It's been suggested from high places that the First Gardian of the Baha'i Faith was homosexual. Everyone keeps a wrap on this though.
Shoghi Effendi, the first Guardian, is the only source to my knowledge of any condemnation of homosexuality. But even that information was written by his secretary. Although it is believed that since this was Shoghi Effendi's interpretation of certain statements by Baha'u'llah that Effendi said meant a condemnation of homosexuality, a Guardian is not a scientist or a geneticist, and cannot carry his "infallible" interpretive guidance into the arena of science. This is proscribed according to Shoghi Effendi himself.
Besides that, neither was Baha'u'llah a scientist. He was a Manifestation of God, a Divine Physician who came into the world to heal us of our spiritual ills, to re-establish the foundations of divine religion, because religion had become a curse to mankind. His mission was spiritual. His life's context was very different than the modern western context that has much greater understanding of homosexuality than did mid-19th century Persia. Baha'u'llah did in fact condemn the practice of anal sex, and pedarasty, the Greco-Persian custom of straight males taking boys for their sexual pleasure to maintain "chastity" before marriage. It is a widespread Iranian practice. Even the late Ayatollah Khomeini instructed men on the proper use of boys for that purpose. It is accepted in Iran. Baha'u'llah said that it was unacceptable.
The question that needs to be asked is: Did Baha'u'llah specifically condemn homosexuality? I've been a Baha'i for 27 years. I've never seen any evidence of it, yet the Baha'i community has alienated its gay members. I'd love to know where Kaath gets her information. I'd like to see something substantive other than the same old worn out arguments that are all over the Internet, but not taken seriously by people who know what the truth is.
Baha'is, just like people of previous religious dispensations, are afflicted by the same limitations and prejudices.
5c6r5w9

Montréal, Canada

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#17
Mar 30, 2009
 
HOT INFO IN YOUTUBE VIDEO !
Once there, please copy and paste:
1) "perished nation part 1 (full video 38 min)"
2) "Re: Bahai Faith Discriminates on Homosexuals"
3) "Stop Baha'i Anti-Gay Discrimination"
Then read the commentaries...
5c6r5w9

Montréal, Canada

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#18
Mar 30, 2009
 
HOT INFO IN YOUTUBE VIDEO !
Once there, please copy and paste:
1) "perished nation part 1 (full video 38 min)"
2) "Re: Bahai Faith Discriminates on Homosexuals"
3) "Stop Baha'i Anti-Gay Discrimination"
Then read the commentaries...
Peyamb

United States

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#19
Apr 2, 2009
 
Bahaullah does not condemn homosexuality as we know it today. Committed loving gay relationships raising children did not exist in the time of Bahaullah. He condemned the rape of slave boys- that's all.
The present Universla House of Justice (UHJ) has decided that all homosexuality is against the Bahai teachings based on letters written on behalf of the official interpreter of the Bahai Faith decades ago. These letters are NOT Law. A future UHJ may finally see that to deny gay families a place in God's Kingdom is discriminatory. I am Bahai and many other Bahais like me believe this. The future will tell.

“The Buybull is innerrrent.”

Since: Jun 08

Fairport, NY

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#20
Apr 2, 2009
 

Judged:

1

Just a Thought wrote:
It has been a fundamental belief of many societies and religions throughout history that marriage is the union of a man and a women for the procreation(breeding)of children as its' fundamental principle.

To try and redefine the definition of marriage is not necessary or practical. Two women or Two men cannot breed together in the traditional sense.

Domestic Partnership Law gives gays nearly the same benefits as those who are married. I also think that people should be allowed to provide health insurance to those they love eventhough they are not married or dependants. Enough of this...you get the drift.

By redefining marriage to incorporate gays isn't going to make them more legitimate in the eyes of those who don't believe marriage should be redefined.
I smell a magic underpants-like brigade at work in this post. Phew!

1. Traditional marriage was a means for men to assert property rights over a girl or woman or women. Marriages could be polygamous, involve child brides, be arranged, be part of peace negotiations and so on. Some primal societies raised children with the entire group functioning as parents. In Middle Ages' Europe there were marriage ceremonies for male couples.

Marriage is a human institution which has changed and will keep changing. Your sense of history is myopically narrow.

2. Today marriage is not contingent on any couple being able to procreate or having an intention to procreate. Your argument is a lie.

3. Almost equal rights is not sufficient for taxpaying citizens in a secular democracy. Domestic partnership laws do not carry over when moving or traveling to another country or to another state without the same DP laws. Only marriage offers federal income tax, inheritance tax and social security benefits, to name just three important ones. How about we change things so you get "almost" equal rights?

4. Marriage equality is not to make you ignorant bigots feel better about anybody's sexual orientation. Marriage equality will be to secure equal rights for everyone. You can go right on resenting your spouse as you do now after gays and lesbians get marriage equality.

Why don't you brainwashed loons just cut to the chase and simply say you hate gays and lesbians? At least that's not refutable like your made up "arguments" you keep spewing out of your hom skool spellin' 486 chip computers in the community room of your cult compound. You bigot.

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