Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

There are 1638 comments on the Q-Notes story from Feb 13, 2013, titled Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?. In it, Q-Notes reports that:

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Q-Notes.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1346 May 15, 2013
Buck hear's barnyard animals and immediately thinks about dating them.....
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>Can we keep your dating habits out of it?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1347 May 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yahweh ordered him to kill his son, you are guessing he sent the angel. Why just tell Abraham himself?
It is possible the angel did that on his own yes?
<quoted text>
maybe he did, I think he did. but trying to explain that one to you would just go right on past you.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1348 May 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Go back through the thread it's time you do something on your own without needing your hand held.
<quoted text>
i've been through the thread. now it is your turn. post it or move on.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1349 May 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Josephus never mentions Jesus in his works, all the Jesus passages are forgeries. He does however mention Hercules several times. I suppose the son of Zeus has more historical proof than Jesus :)
<quoted text>
there you go again. claiming that someone put a forgery into every copy of his work in question. or is it that someone destroyed every copy of his unforged work in question?
you see we have no copies of his work without the supposed forged sections. amazing.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1350 May 15, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
The vow of the offering was to give a burnt offering. No where does it mention that God rejected a burnt offering If Jepthah had changed the nature of his sacrifice, then the bible would have mentioned it the same way it mentioned when God prevented the killing of Isaac.
if you wish to claim knowledge about levitical sacrifices then you must accept the standards and rules of those sacrifices found in the book of leviticus. why would the Bible have to mention exactly how he completed the vow if there was only one way that he could complete the vow that was acceptable to God? had he burned her he would not have completed the vow and God would have commented on his error. however God praises him as a man of faith.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1351 May 15, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
You are trying to be slick and imply that because there are prohibitions against human offerings that this means that God would have not accepted such in the case of Jepthah.
Sorry, but your buybull is filled with hypocrisy and contradictions. The buybull has two different creation stories. The buybull says that no one should suffer for the sins of their ancestors, yet we inherit original sin from Adam and Eve. In the buybull, God kills the children of Sodom, Egypt, and Canaaan for the sins of their parents. The buybull sells whoever has a bastard shall. he and his children shall not enter Heaven for seven generations. The children of Canaan are cursed by Noah for the sins of their grandfather, Ham.
Clearly, your buybull is inconsistent.
so i guess you will now show where the Bible says that no one should suffer for the sins of their ancestors [fathers]?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1352 May 15, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
That was a rather cruel joke for God to play, don't you think? To demand that a man kill his son and then to stop him at the last moment seems tyrannical to me.. not the actions of a just deity.
If any human played such a cruel joke, you'd be in uproar.
But he is God...big deal.
Too bad the children of Job did not get such benefits. God did not rely on Job to kill his kids, God did it himself.
maybe he wanted to show abraham that #1 he was faithful to his promise and #2 that isaac the son of promise was not the one that was promised to redeem mankind but that in fact isaac himself needed to be redeemed and a substitute was provided for him.

now you keep bringing up death as a cruel and unjust part of life. as a Christian we see death as the door that leads to eternity and a presence with God forever. so really we all die. if God chooses to take me "early" that's ok and probably better for me.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1353 May 15, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Isaac died.
<quoted text>
not on that alter. but as an old man. so what is your point?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1354 May 15, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Who cares? You >>sole<< interest is vainly attempting to prove your myth-jew was a historical figure.
Of course, you cannot do that-- mainly because Jesus never was a real person.
Besides: Josephus also wrote about the Greek demigod, Hercules-- as if Hercules >>was<< 1/2 man, 1/2 god-- meaning Josephus believed Zeus was a real god...
... in short, his credibility is pretty low.
we all know the quotes in question concerning Jesus. how ever why don't you show us or link for us the quotes in question concerning hercules and zeus? i'll bet we find a different picture than what you are trying to illustrate.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1355 May 15, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Who cares? You >>sole<< interest is vainly attempting to prove your myth-jew was a historical figure.
Of course, you cannot do that-- mainly because Jesus never was a real person.
Besides: Josephus also wrote about the Greek demigod, Hercules-- as if Hercules >>was<< 1/2 man, 1/2 god-- meaning Josephus believed Zeus was a real god...
... in short, his credibility is pretty low.
and i see that you don't know the answer to the question either.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1356 May 15, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Blah, blah, blah... your sad belief in cherry-picking of the bible is best answered here:
<quoted text>
now let's see;you are basing the whole of your argument on one word from one verse. i have used several passages even one from the NT and including the whole of the story itself to explain the complete context.
so who is cherry-picking here?

barry wrote:
<quoted text>now if you want to discuss how he fulfilled a levitical vow then you must consider how the book of leviticus says ....
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1357 May 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Vows to Yahweh must be kept that is paramount to all. What was his vow? Burnt offering. Did he keep his vow? Yes.
Everything else is you adding to the story biblical fan fiction.
<quoted text>
so you are assuming that a burnt offering must be burnt. whoever you are ignoring that it also must be an offering. an offering only has value if it is accepted. otherwise it is not an offering but a fraudulent attempt.

now if you look at the literal meaning of the hebrew words for burnt offering you will see that they literally mean go up. it is an offering that goes up. not that is just offered up but it goes up.
if God was to reject it it would not have gone up. she fulfilled the vow by going up as a virgin to a seperated life/service to God.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1358 May 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Another thing about the whole Jephthah mess is this.
How many times do we hear Christians say the Israelites sinned or didn't honor god and that's why they were punished. It seems you can't go ten minutes with an OT hero without them doing something to anger Yahweh and face the heat for it.... Everyone except Jephthah that is!
Apparently he did everything just right! No missteps or sins no sir!
Even though the bible paints him out to be this angry, not so bright warrior... So Moses and Solomon screw up but Jephthah? No way! Lol!
so we have the life of jeptha in one chapter and seven verses. apparently he didn't do anything badly that would have affected what God was trying to teach. you are right the vast majority have their sins recorded, even king david who "was a man after God's own heart" but there are a few men who have no negative actions or events recorded in their lives. some over many chapters and others over a few verses. all for the purpose of teaching us something.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1359 May 15, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
They love quoting Joe, even though he was not even a near contemporary of any biblical figure.
i would think that being born shortly after the life of Christ and during the lives of peter paul and john would make him at least a "near contemporary".
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1360 May 15, 2013
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an assumption that you based upon because if God accepted an burnt human offering that it will be a contradiction to the laws of Leviticus. As I said before, the bible is filled with contradictions. The bible says that we should not be judged by the sins of our ancestors, yet numerous times in the bible, people are penalized by the sins of their ancestors.
No where in your bible does it say that God rejected the burnt offering. The scriptures implies that God accepted the offering.
nowhere does it say that she was actually burned. there are other times when unacceptable offerings were rejected and great condemnation came upon those who offered it.
nor can you show a time when an unacceptable offering was accepted.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1361 May 15, 2013
Maybe and your opinion is irrelevant. Yahweh ordered him to sacrifice his son. An angel, not Yahweh, told him to stop. Those are the facts.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>maybe he did, I think he did. but trying to explain that one to you would just go right on past you.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1362 May 15, 2013
Older copies of his work do not contain the Jesus passages. It was Origin I believe who forged the Jesus passages in.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>there you go again. claiming that someone put a forgery into every copy of his work in question. or is it that someone destroyed every copy of his unforged work in question?
you see we have no copies of his work without the supposed forged sections. amazing.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1363 May 15, 2013
Now you are going into personal speculation and personal interpretation as you wish it. The Hebrew word for Jephthah's vow is the same Hebrew word for what Abraham was to do to Isaac. Was Isaac meant to go work in the temple as Abraham's sacrifice... That Yahweh ordered??

Plus I notice apologetics love to bring up how the ancient Israelites always messed up, strayed from what Yahweh wanted, sinned and strayed from the path... Except Jephthah! He certainly didn't right?

Again a vow made to Yahweh would supersede anything else. He never said he would give Yahweh an acceptable sacrifice as a burnt offering he said whatever came out of his house first to greet him. That was his daughter.

Burnt offering.

He kept his vow.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you are assuming that a burnt offering must be burnt. whoever you are ignoring that it also must be an offering. an offering only has value if it is accepted. otherwise it is not an offering but a fraudulent attempt.

now if you look at the literal meaning of the hebrew words for burnt offering you will see that they literally mean go up. it is an offering that goes up. not that is just offered up but it goes up.
if God was to reject it it would not have gone up. she fulfilled the vow by going up as a virgin to a seperated life/service to God.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#1364 May 15, 2013
And the lesson of the Jephthah story is that you must keep your promise to god no matter how difficult and painful it is. That your word is your bond and inescapable with god.

It is not until the 18th century that we have a single apologetic Christian or Jewish bring up that perhaps she wasn't sacrificed as a burnt offering.

Not once in over 2000 years did the people who read and preached this story ever claim she wasn't sacrificed.

Which is more likely, Did they have it wrong all those centuries? Or did more modern apologetics alter the story to a more palatable version for their time period?
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so we have the life of jeptha in one chapter and seven verses. apparently he didn't do anything badly that would have affected what God was trying to teach. you are right the vast majority have their sins recorded, even king david who "was a man after God's own heart" but there are a few men who have no negative actions or events recorded in their lives. some over many chapters and others over a few verses. all for the purpose of teaching us something.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1365 May 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Older copies of his work do not contain the Jesus passages. It was Origin I believe who forged the Jesus passages in.
<quoted text>
there are no "older copies of his work [that] do not contain the Jesus passages" at least as far as i can find. perhaps you can link to some that support your claim.

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