Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Feb 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Q-Notes

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

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1,101 - 1,120 of 1,638 Comments Last updated May 29, 2013
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1121
May 7, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
We have early Christian documents from the year 115 that says where you find Catholics you find Christians.
Sorry your Protestant cult lied to you. Back in the day I was a baptist and they never said such foolishness.
<quoted text>
we do, help me out here. can you list or post a few?
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1122
May 7, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh you are quoting the Moses myth that stole the drowning of an army in the sea account from a centuries earlier Zeus tale. Guess what? Neither happened.
Lol!
Care to fail again?
<quoted text>
and how do you know that it never happened. did the egyptian mainstream press give us a different account?
do you really think that egyptian scholars would have written about the distruction of their god and his army?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1123
May 7, 2013
 
This is a fair point Jephthah's daughter was offered up as a burnt offering yet she didn't even warrant a name to be documented in the book. She is merely Jephthah's daughter.
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>That is something you can't know. Looking at the buybull's documentation of girl children born to anyone, could make a rational person assume that in those days, no man could father a daughter unless she was to be sacrificed, sold into slavery, raped into marriage or stoned in the streets. Hence approximately one female child born to the biblical actors, for every hundred or so sons. Daughters along with the livestock, were numbered among the household possessions, and sons counted among the human group called family.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1124
May 7, 2013
 
But couldn't that show the exodus writer merely stole the story from other cultures and people?
barry wrote:
<quoted text>well, no evidence that you would accept.
the Ipuwer Papyrus sounds very much like another accounting of the beginning of the book of Exodus.
a temple memorializing Amenhotep III's domination of foreign peoples contains a reference to the God Yhw.
archaeological sites that might contain more evidence have been traditionally restricted by the egyptian gov.
the ancient rock carvings on display in the National Archeological Museum in Leiden, Netherlands record the plagues.

and the list could go on. just because there is no conclusive evidence for something does not then mean that it did not happen. when considering what does exist one wouild have to say that there is also no conclusive evidence against it either.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1125
May 7, 2013
 
Because we would have overwhelming proof for it if it did happen. We have several Egyptian writings that speak negatively about the Pharaoh and his actions or failures. We even have them mocking how a Pharaoh looked.

The events listed in the bible would certainly not go unnoticed or documented. Especially the so called 10 plagues! Such a series of events would have been well documented by the Egyptians at the time.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>and how do you know that it never happened. did the egyptian mainstream press give us a different account?
do you really think that egyptian scholars would have written about the distruction of their god and his army?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1126
May 7, 2013
 
Then you must be one in one of those Fred phelps style baptist churches

My old baptist preacher had a close friend and colleague who was a catholic priest and the two even appeared together on a weekly radio show along with a rabbi and some Lutheran pastor.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>we do, help me out here. can you list or post a few?
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1127
May 7, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Wow you are all over the place on your bible fan fiction writing!
The city was there before and after the time of Jesus unmoved and under the same name. Nazareth is over a mile away. It was Japhia centuries before Jesus, during his supposed life and centuries after his supposed execution.
He wasn't called Jesus of Japhia was he? Even Josephus mapped out and described Japhia in great detail.
Care to fail again?
<quoted text>
":“Japhia” was located in the Nazareth basin in the Bronze and Iron Ages, and
it moved in the course of centuries to the eventual Roman location three kilometers away. Such
village movement over time was not unusual, and occurred for a variety of reasons. In the case of
Japhia we have a good reason: Assyria conquered Israel in 732 BCE and destroyed all the major
towns in northern Palestine. It is likely that Japhia was also a casualty of the general destruction
at that time. Thus, the earliest town of Nazareth was not “Nazareth” at all, but Japhia.

the original town of japhia was named after the king of lachish who formed an alliance against joshua. it was conquered so why would israel not change its name to something else. why would jewish history continue to refer to it as japhia. the locals and natives would however still refer to it as japhia.

nazareth was not only a village but a basin in the mountains. the village was named after the location and perhaps both had a different name altogether no mater what name it had it would also be known as the city of nazareth that is the city in nazareth. the mexicans even today refer to their capital city as mexico they also refer to it by other names.

the current city of japhia has no ancient ruins to support its ancient history just as the current city of nazareth also has no ancient ruins to support its history. both moved over time. however the landmarks noted in the Bible can be found in the nazareth basin. both cities moved/shifted over time and perhaps nazareth at one time occupied the old city of japhia.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1128
May 7, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Then you must be one in one of those Fred phelps style baptist churches
My old baptist preacher had a close friend and colleague who was a catholic priest and the two even appeared together on a weekly radio show along with a rabbi and some Lutheran pastor.
<quoted text>
can't say that i know who fred phelps is but i do have a real interest in church history. i just am real cautious about the catholic version of it. however even the catholics can be helpful in understanding history as long as we are cautious about their bias.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1129
May 7, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Because we would have overwhelming proof for it if it did happen. We have several Egyptian writings that speak negatively about the Pharaoh and his actions or failures. We even have them mocking how a Pharaoh looked.
The events listed in the bible would certainly not go unnoticed or documented. Especially the so called 10 plagues! Such a series of events would have been well documented by the Egyptians at the time.
<quoted text>
the National Archeological Museum in Leiden, Netherlands has a rock that records the plagues.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1130
May 7, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
This is a fair point Jephthah's daughter was offered up as a burnt offering yet she didn't even warrant a name to be documented in the book. She is merely Jephthah's daughter.
<quoted text>
there is some doubt about your interpretation of that event.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1131
May 7, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
But couldn't that show the exodus writer merely stole the story from other cultures and people?
<quoted text>
yes it could, but it is not conclusive. it could have actually happened that way. it would not be the first time that reality "imitated" fiction. also one has to ask, if something was stolen who stole from who?
i once had a teacher of religious studies who was trying to dicount the idea of a noah flood because some ancient societies also had an account of a flood. his assumption was that the Bible account could then be nothing more than a repeating of an existing legend. until i asked him what if there really was a world wide flood and all of existing mankind descends from the family of noah, wouldn't it then be expected for other ancient societies to also have a story of a flood? he agreed that that would be s a possibility
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1132
May 7, 2013
 
emperorjohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry for the mistake. I was supposed too say son. The point of the story was to show how slavish Abraham was to God.
it happens.
however the story is not about how slavish abraham was to God but the faith that abraham had in the promise of a redeemer who would provide for the redemption of mankind by giving his life. abraham thought that God might have chosen his son isaac but God was showing abraham that issac was not good enough to be the redeemer and that even issac needed a redeemer, someone to die in his place.
what did abraham say when issac asked where the sacrifice was? he said, "God will provide himself a lamb" what did john the baptist say when he saw Jesus? "behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world"
abraham may have actually been prophetic when he said that "God would provide himself a lamb" because that is what he did he himself came and became the lamb that paid the penalty for our sins.
isaac was spared by an innocent ram. we are spared by the death of the innocent Christ if we accept it and apply it to our lives.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1133
May 7, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Abraham? You mean the guy who forced a slave girl to carry his baby at the request of his wife and ten force her and her son into the desert when his wife changed her mind even though the slave girl and his first son were kind god fearing people?
What a guy!
<quoted text>
did not abraham believe God and do what God suggested trusting that God would take care of his son?

Genesis 17:20
And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Genesis 25:9
And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah,
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1134
May 7, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
I know! If a man did today what Abraham did back then? He would be branded a psychopath monster. And worse god did not tell Abraham to throw his first born son and slave girl wife into the unforgiving desert! Abraham did that all on his own. Even by apologetic standards Abraham was a monster.
<quoted text>
Genesis 21:
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

abraham trusted the promise of God.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1135
May 7, 2013
 
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>That is something you can't know. Looking at the buybull's documentation of girl children born to anyone, could make a rational person assume that in those days, no man could father a daughter unless she was to be sacrificed, sold into slavery, raped into marriage or stoned in the streets. Hence approximately one female child born to the biblical actors, for every hundred or so sons. Daughters along with the livestock, were numbered among the household possessions, and sons counted among the human group called family.
nice try but totally off topic. even if what you said had any merit with the story, "she" was not the one taken to be offered.

Since: Mar 11

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#1136
May 7, 2013
 

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Wow a whole loaf of bread and a whole bottle of water for the slave girl forced to give birth to his child and the boy?

It wasn't a half loaf of bread for the two going out unprotected into the harsh brutal desert?

How about a tent to shelter from the cold nights and scorching heat? How about sword, shield bow and arrows for protection and hunting? How about a horse or at least a donkey! How about a few livestock animals to breed and help provide? No? How about a fair amount of coin to buy needed supplies in the harsh wasteland? No?

Nope just a loaf bread and a bottle of water for your first born beloved son and your purchased wife!

Oh and what was their sin Barry? Uh Sara changed her mind! Way to go Abraham!

Most likely they died by the end of the week but that doesn't make a nice campfire story so.... Hey look at that city over there! That's what became of them!

Lmfao!
barry wrote:
<quoted text>Genesis 21:
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

abraham trusted the promise of God.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1137
May 7, 2013
 
Only by apologetics.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>there is some doubt about your interpretation of that event.

Since: Mar 11

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#1138
May 7, 2013
 

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There was no worldwide flood. Several cultures have no major flood stories at all.

Yes we see the bible is chock full of accounts ripped off from previous cultures very little is original. If the bible was assembled today in the same manner as back then the writers would be sued and the book destroyed. Even early Christian hero Justin martyr exclaimed his frustration in his writings that the tale of Jesus was so often compared to precious messiahs detail for detail and in debates this vexed him.......

Satan must have in the past set up all these fake messiahs right?

Lmfao!
barry wrote:
<quoted text>yes it could, but it is not conclusive. it could have actually happened that way. it would not be the first time that reality "imitated" fiction. also one has to ask, if something was stolen who stole from who?
i once had a teacher of religious studies who was trying to dicount the idea of a noah flood because some ancient societies also had an account of a flood. his assumption was that the Bible account could then be nothing more than a repeating of an existing legend. until i asked him what if there really was a world wide flood and all of existing mankind descends from the family of noah, wouldn't it then be expected for other ancient societies to also have a story of a flood? he agreed that that would be s a possibility

Since: Mar 11

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#1139
May 7, 2013
 
Link?

Probably not :))
barry wrote:
<quoted text>the National Archeological Museum in Leiden, Netherlands has a rock that records the plagues.

Since: Mar 11

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#1140
May 7, 2013
 

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Bible fan fiction is fun eh? Listen barely sorry to burst your apologetic fan fiction but uhh see we have maps and documentation of Japhia from centuries before Jesus was said to live and it's still documented in the exact same spot centuries after he was said to live. Josephus chronicled it in detail in his works and he was born decades after Jesus' supposed undocumented secularly execution.

For your fan fiction to work you have to be claiming Japhia for a short time Jesus was said to live changed it's name to Nazareth and then immediately changed it's name back to Japhia and the name Nazareth completely erased for over 100 years. All the while everyone deciding not to document any of this.

That is the only way Jesus could have come from Nazareth.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>":“Japhia” was located in the Nazareth basin in the Bronze and Iron Ages, and
it moved in the course of centuries to the eventual Roman location.

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