Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Feb 13, 2013 Full story: Q-Notes 1,638

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

Full Story

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#82 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>ok, humor me, how did he use your taxes?
By being tax exempt.

That uses my taxes, against my will, to perpetuate his program of lies.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#83 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>oh, so all these men just got together and conspired to write about their made up Jesus and then somehow managed to get their accounts recorded as history by secular scholars.
None of these people are real people, silly boyo.

You really don't know where your bible came from, do you?

LOL!

The bible as YOU know it, did not exist prior to roughly 300CE, when it was fabricated by Constantine's hand-picked bible-committee.

There, from 1000's of legendary tales they were interested in, Constantine (and his committee) fabricated a new religion, one that he wished to use to pacify his empire.

After stitching the bible from a large collection of tales, he had what he wanted: a new religion that taught it's followers to be sheep, and to OBEY any and all AUTHORITY (which in this case, was Constantine himself... how convenient).

Of course, that Constantine's soldiers had to force-convert people to the new "christianity" was of no consequence to his program-- convert or die.

I find it interesting, that many chose to die, but nevermind that.

In any case? Your bible is a collection of mashed-together myths and legends-- nobody in it was real, silly boyo.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#84 Feb 21, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Still no links to your ... ahem ... "facts".

He is evil, to the core-- as selfish as they come, too.
ok, since you're to lazy to look them up, here is one;

http://www.billygraham.org/assets/media/pdfs/...

so let's see your facts

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#85 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>ok, since you're to lazy to look them up, here is one;
http://www.billygraham.org/assets/media/pdfs/...
so let's see your facts
Won't open-- 404 or something.

Nice try.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#86 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
so let's see your facts
Here's an excellent source--it has many references to where the information came from, too.

" http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richar... ;

But I will bet you $20 that you won't click on it, or of you do--you won't read beyond the title page.

People such as yourself, prefer living the lie, and avoid at all costs, the actual...

... facts.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#87 Feb 21, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
By being tax exempt.
That uses my taxes, against my will, to perpetuate his program of lies.
the question was;
barry wrote:
<quoted text>ok, humor me, how did he use your taxes?

and that is your answer? really? how did your tax dollars or any gov money perpetuate his program?

they didn't, did they?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#88 Feb 21, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
None of these people are real people, silly boyo.
You really don't know where your bible came from, do you?
LOL!
The bible as YOU know it, did not exist prior to roughly 300CE, when it was fabricated by Constantine's hand-picked bible-committee.
There, from 1000's of legendary tales they were interested in, Constantine (and his committee) fabricated a new religion, one that he wished to use to pacify his empire.
After stitching the bible from a large collection of tales, he had what he wanted: a new religion that taught it's followers to be sheep, and to OBEY any and all AUTHORITY (which in this case, was Constantine himself... how convenient).
Of course, that Constantine's soldiers had to force-convert people to the new "christianity" was of no consequence to his program-- convert or die.
I find it interesting, that many chose to die, but nevermind that.
In any case? Your bible is a collection of mashed-together myths and legends-- nobody in it was real, silly boyo.
The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians”(from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James,“the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says,“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads,“At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”
Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them.
Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews,...

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

of course, "none of these people were real".

now we could talk about the existence of the Bible before the 4th century but that is not the topic is it?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#89 Feb 21, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Won't open-- 404 or something.
Nice try.
that's funny, i clicked on it and it opened right up. and my computer is old.
so here it is; pg 48 of their annual report 2009

Grants and scholarships $ 1,453,236 $–$–$ 1,453,236
Salaries and wages 23,242,293 2,629,264 5,618,537 31,490,094
Employee benefits 6,273,705 618,792 1,477,404 8,369,901
Payroll taxes 1,978,621 214,074 453,356 2,646,051
Legal and professional services 1,600,596 91,613 575,244 2,267,453
Contract labor 4,703,498 36,751 20,849 4,761,098

as you can see the last # is the total of each category.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#90 Feb 21, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an excellent source--it has many references to where the information came from, too.
" http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richar... ;
But I will bet you $20 that you won't click on it, or of you do--you won't read beyond the title page.
People such as yourself, prefer living the lie, and avoid at all costs, the actual...
... facts.
you're almost right. i didn't get past the third page. that is simply because i'm confused. i expected you to put up something that would support this claim from you in a previous post;

"Not a single document, letter, diary, book-of-whatever, was written about your Jewsus during his life.
Not one. All--without exception-- were written 60, 90, 100's of years AFTER."

i couldn't find that in those pages [they seemed to disagree with you on the time span] and was wondering if it comes up later and if so perhaps you could tell me what page it was on.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#91 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>the question was;
barry wrote:
<quoted text>ok, humor me, how did he use your taxes?
and that is your answer? really? how did your tax dollars or any gov money perpetuate his program?
they didn't, did they?
"How much money does the U.S. government forgo by not taxing religious institutions? According to a University of Tampa professor, perhaps as much as $71 billion a year.
...— on property, donations, business enterprises, capital gains and "parsonage allowances," which permit clergy to deduct housing costs."

(" http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/... ;)
barry

Rainsville, AL

#92 Feb 21, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
"How much money does the U.S. government forgo by not taxing religious institutions? According to a University of Tampa professor, perhaps as much as $71 billion a year.
...— on property, donations, business enterprises, capital gains and "parsonage allowances," which permit clergy to deduct housing costs."
(" http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/... ;)
and in what way does this answer the question of how did bg might have used [your] tax dollars to propagate his message.
Pills Clintoon

Nha Trang, Vietnam

#93 Feb 21, 2013
Pillee Grahum?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#94 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>the question was;
barry wrote:
<quoted text>ok, humor me, how did he use your taxes?
and that is your answer? really? how did your tax dollars or any gov money perpetuate his program?
they didn't, did they?
His horrid programs of lies are supported by government tax credits.

That's him, using my taxes, to lie.

Without the tax support, none of your evil religion would have survived to the modern day.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#95 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians”(from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).
Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James,“the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says,“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads,“At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”
Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).
Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.
The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.
Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them.
Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews,...
Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.
In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).
of course, "none of these people were real".
now we could talk about the existence of the Bible before the 4th century but that is not the topic is it?
I figured you'd mention those.

Sorry to burst your bubble, moron, but neither of these people were alive during the "blessed" events.

They were writing ... GOSSIP once again.

Silly boy.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#96 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>that's funny, i clicked on it and it opened right up. and my computer is old.
so here it is; pg 48 of their annual report 2009
Grants and scholarships $ 1,453,236 $–$–$ 1,453,236
Salaries and wages 23,242,293 2,629,264 5,618,537 31,490,094
Employee benefits 6,273,705 618,792 1,477,404 8,369,901
Payroll taxes 1,978,621 214,074 453,356 2,646,051
Legal and professional services 1,600,596 91,613 575,244 2,267,453
Contract labor 4,703,498 36,751 20,849 4,761,098
as you can see the last # is the total of each category.
Riiiight... like a document from a liar like Graham is ... honest.

Riiiiight.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#97 Feb 21, 2013
None of these people met Jesus. You fail. The Josephus line is a Christian forgery that doesn't appear in his earlier work. Josephus also proves Nazareth did not exist at that time. Tacitus would never call Jesus the Christ an that never shows up until the 15th century version of his writing!

The rest of your jokes at best are repeating what Christians told them, nothing more. This is not proof.

Btw Josephus and Tacitus wrote about Hercules so are you accepting that he existed as well?

Wait are you actually so stupid as to include unapproved gospels of Jesus as proof he existed?

Lmfao!!!
barry wrote:
<quoted text>The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians”(from Christus,
Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James,“the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).
Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.
The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.
Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them.
Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews,...
Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#98 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you're almost right. i didn't get past the third page. that is simply because i'm confused. i expected you to put up something that would support this claim from you in a previous post;
"Not a single document, letter, diary, book-of-whatever, was written about your Jewsus during his life.
Not one. All--without exception-- were written 60, 90, 100's of years AFTER."
i couldn't find that in those pages [they seemed to disagree with you on the time span] and was wondering if it comes up later and if so perhaps you could tell me what page it was on.
Why do you lie? Oh! Lying is your only tool.

Silly boy-- none of the gospels were written before 60CE. Most were 90-120CE.

This is common scholarship of modern bible scholars.

I'm sorry your education is so ... lacking.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#99 Feb 21, 2013
Even you beloved Christian scholars admit nothing was written about Jesus until decades after he was said to die.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you're almost right. i didn't get past the third page. that is simply because i'm confused. i expected you to put up something that would support this claim from you in a previous post;
"Not a single document, letter, diary, book-of-whatever, was written about your Jewsus during his life.
Not one. All--without exception-- were written 60, 90, 100's of years AFTER."
i couldn't find that in those pages [they seemed to disagree with you on the time span] and was wondering if it comes up later and if so perhaps you could tell me what page it was on.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#100 Feb 21, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>and in what way does this answer the question of how did bg might have used [your] tax dollars to propagate his message.
Few people would have given him dime-one, if they did not get tax credits from the government.

He'd have had to get... a REAL job-- something he is not qualified to do.

But more importantly, he'd never have made it out of the backwoods that spawned him.

For the betterment of everyone involved.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#101 Feb 21, 2013
Why won't he give all his money to charity? Or most of it, he has over 25 million in cash, so donate 20million to charity billy!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
why? 10 min Uncle Sam 55
Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... 31 min 4 Leaf Clover 2,845
Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 32 min Joe fortuna 234,695
"Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 38 min Dogen 14,705
The Consequences of Atheism 1 hr ChristineM 85
Christianity Created Hitler 3 hr thetruth 221
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 5 hr Thinking 1,500
More from around the web