Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

There are 1635 comments on the Q-Notes story from Feb 13, 2013, titled Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?. In it, Q-Notes reports that:

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Q-Notes.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#736 Mar 24, 2013
That's a funny way of avoiding the contradictions I mentioned.

Head buried deep in the sand of apologetic nonsense
barry wrote:
<quoted text>we are not robots that we have to do exactly as everything is preordained.
nor are we babies that we must be bottle fed only what is perfectly good for us.
the Christian life is one of choices and faith. we love him because he first loved us. not because we have no other choice.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#737 Mar 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay. Read these and... weep. Here's 5. I got more... lots and lots and LOTS more...
From my favorite bible-debunking site: www.evilbible.com
__________
108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19
111. Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34
112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27
#3 "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

"The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation"
your idea that a "Christian dispensation supersedes the law is flawed.
first of all the law is our teacher that shows us our need of a savior because no of us can keep [fulfill] the law.
second of all Christ is the only person who could fulfill the law. he was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin.
but he also is the only person who fulfilled the law in all of its prophesies concerning the promised redeemer.
so yes, he did not destroy the law but rather fulfilled it.

#4 yes< Christ's mission was/is to bring peace to this world. he is the Prince of Peace. but the peace that he brings is a peace with God. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"
it stands to reason that if everyone was at peace with God then there would be peace in this world.
now you use Mathew 10:34 to claim that Christ's mission is not to bring peace. but Mathew 10 is in the context of this theme;
Mathew 10:16-18
"16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
vs 21-23
"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities
of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
vs28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

so your use of vs34 is showing that there will be no peace in this world. he didn't come to bring world peace but that the world through him might be saved. and if they all did turn to him we would have peace but until that happens
Vs34 is the reality, he is telling it like it is.
vs34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." he goes on to say that even families will be divided "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household".

so once again there is no contradiction there just a lack of understanding about the peace of God.

#5 "John 5:34
"But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved."
John 15:27
"And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."

there is a big difference between receiving testimony from someone and testifying of someone.
5:34 is saying that what Christ testified about did not come from men.
15:27 says that his disciples would testify of Christ.

lists that are just thrown together are only designed to impress. they often are not critically analyzed nor are they meant to be.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#738 Mar 24, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
That's a funny way of avoiding the contradictions I mentioned.
Head buried deep in the sand of apologetic nonsense
<quoted text>
and what contradictions did you mention? at least bob put up a few that he thought were valid.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#739 Mar 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for playing-- you just proved my statement:
According to YOUR WORLD OF FANTASY-DELUSION?
"documented" means "agrees with barry"
Your lies keep piling higher and deeper...
so did i miss something? did you explain why the site that you posted in an attempt to prove your point actually disproved your point or are you trying to duck the issue?
barry

Pisgah, AL

#740 Mar 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
When are you going to get it?
Your bible is NOT even REMOTELY "documentation"!
Your bible has an AGENDA!
As such, it cannot be trusted to be truthful.
Ever.
So. What ELSE you got?
Apart from your bible, of course-- how about some ROMAN records corroborating your claim?
No?
Why not? Those Romans kept records of EVERYTHING.
They CERTAINLY would have kept a record of a miracle of such magnitude that 120 people were ...
... ahem... "witnesses".
<quoted text>
Not at all-- the witnesses who were actually questioned? We DO HAVE THEIR NAMES ON RECORD.
So your comparison actually undermines your case,here...!
do we now? i doubt that you can produce that record.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#741 Mar 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
You first-- let's see YOUR "evidence" in support of your bible...
that's a third grade game.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#742 Mar 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
You first-- let's see YOUR "evidence" in support of your bible...
wait; woody made a claim about the Bible;

woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>why not start with the description of the pharisees in the gospels...the earlier written gospels do not give them much power or sway, as that was the fact when it was written and at jesus' time. later gospels show them as quite powerful and against jesus as that is what was happening at the time it was written. why would they lie about the strength of the pharisees against jesus?
they were political adverts for the people of the time they were written is why...

my response was;
"thank you for your opinion but how about some evidence?"

i just thought he could be more helpful and point out exactly what he was talking about.
apparently you don't think he can or you would not be trying to shift the conversation.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#743 Mar 24, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
No you don't get to do that without backing it up. You have failed to mention any of these 120 people! Name as many as you can and provide proof they existed.
Stop stalling already! You made the assertion you can't just say... Here's my assertion you go read the bible and look for clues to back it up! That's not how it works, it's your assertion you need to make the case for it NOT ask others to do your homework for you!
Now give the names, proof they existed and said the mircales happened or withdraw the claim.
<quoted text>
you're trying to hide behind a flag pole.
you made this claim;

Lmfao! Your silly New Testament was written decades of not centuries later by fat sweaty Romans who didn't even properly speak Aramaic!

in response to this;
barry wrote:
<quoted text>"the apostles were men of fear during the life and death of Christ. they all ran and hid. judas betrayed him. peter denied him three times. they thought he was the political messiah and were apparently disappointed when he died. they thought he was the "Son of God" but were not sure what that meant. maybe he was that "great prophet". They Called him Lord but they didn't really understand that he was God come in the flesh till after he arose and ascended into heaven. that is when they became bold and gladly submitted to the persecution of the government, proclaiming the gospel everywhere that they went.
i'm not sure who determines what the "current theological belief on the matter" is. nor do i care."

then some how you are trying to tie your claim into a biblical claim of 120 witnesses that the original church started with.
my making or referencing that claim had nothing to do with your careless, unsubstantiable claim about the Bible being written
"decades of not centuries later by fat sweaty Romans who didn't even properly speak Aramaic!" your claim was in no way related to my explanation of 120 witnesses.

so either you can't substantiate it or you're to academically lazy to even try.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#744 Mar 24, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Where was Mary and Joe's house when Jesus was born?
How many Women went to Jesus' tomb?
How did Judas die?
Did Jesus' family flee to egypt?
What did John the Baptist say to Jesus when he baptized him?
Was John even there or in prison already?
I could go on and on with these. Bottom line, to each of those questions the answer is... depends on what gospel you read.
So there you have it, 6 errors right off the top of my head without even trying.
<quoted text>
you ask questions but you show no contradiction. just exactly is the contradiction associated with each question?

i do however find your reference to the fat man judas to be amusing.

the gospels do harmonize. while they might not tell exactly the same story they do collectively give us different details of the same event. much like the witnesses in a court room.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#745 Mar 24, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i gave them to you already, the differing accounts of the pharisees prevalence and influence against jesus...
are you daft? no, you just like avoiding the truth like the slavery point s you didn't even know were in your own bible...
why do you religious cult members not even know yur own bible?
you make a claim that there are differing accounts of the pharisees "prevalence and influence" but you fail to show an example of what you are talking about. so how is one supposed to respond when one fails to see what you claim exists because we have no idea what you are talking about?

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#746 Mar 24, 2013
I said Judas was fat? You are hallucinating now.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you ask questions but you show no contradiction. just exactly is the contradiction associated with each question?

i do however find your reference to the fat man judas to be amusing.

the gospels do harmonize. while they might not tell exactly the same story they do collectively give us different details of the same event. much like the witnesses in a court room.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#747 Mar 24, 2013
Here it is AGAIN Barry. Anyone wanna take bets on how much longer he will run and cower from this?
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Where was Mary and Joe's house when Jesus was born?
How many Women went to Jesus' tomb?
How did Judas die?
Did Jesus' family flee to egypt?
What did John the Baptist say to Jesus when he baptized him?
Was John even there or in prison already?

I could go on and on with these. Bottom line, to each of those questions the answer is... depends on what gospel you read.

So there you have it, 6 errors right off the top of my head without even trying.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Leicester, UK

#748 Mar 25, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>#3 "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
"The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation"
your idea that a "Christian dispensation supersedes the law is flawed.
first of all the law is our teacher that shows us our need of a savior because no of us can keep [fulfill] the law.
second of all Christ is the only person who could fulfill the law. he was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin.
but he also is the only person who fulfilled the law in all of its prophesies concerning the promised redeemer.
so yes, he did not destroy the law but rather fulfilled it.
#4 yes< Christ's mission was/is to bring peace to this world. he is the Prince of Peace. but the peace that he brings is a peace with God. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ"
it stands to reason that if everyone was at peace with God then there would be peace in this world.
now you use Mathew 10:34 to claim that Christ's mission is not to bring peace. but Mathew 10 is in the context of this theme;
Mathew 10:16-18
"16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
vs 21-23
"And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities
of Israel, till the Son of man be come."
vs28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
so your use of vs34 is showing that there will be no peace in this world. he didn't come to bring world peace but that the world through him might be saved. and if they all did turn to him we would have peace but until that happens
Vs34 is the reality, he is telling it like it is.
vs34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." he goes on to say that even families will be divided "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household".
so once again there is no contradiction there just a lack of understanding about the peace of God.
#5 "John 5:34
"But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved."
John 15:27
"And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning."
there is a big difference between receiving testimony from someone and testifying of someone.
5:34 is saying that what Christ testified about did not come from men.
15:27 says that his disciples would testify of Christ.
lists that are just thrown together are only designed to impress. they often are not critically analyzed nor are they meant to be.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." christ stops the stoning of an adulteress, despite the fact that the stoning is commanded in the old laws. What else does this look like other than a Biblical contradiction! When you say that these lists aren't meant to be analyzed, I think you realy mean "I don't like the conclusion that is reach" to bad there are no others to pick.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#749 Mar 25, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>wait; woody made a claim about the Bible;
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>why not start with the description of the pharisees in the gospels...the earlier written gospels do not give them much power or sway, as that was the fact when it was written and at jesus' time. later gospels show them as quite powerful and against jesus as that is what was happening at the time it was written. why would they lie about the strength of the pharisees against jesus?
they were political adverts for the people of the time they were written is why...
my response was;
"thank you for your opinion but how about some evidence?"
i just thought he could be more helpful and point out exactly what he was talking about.
apparently you don't think he can or you would not be trying to shift the conversation.
What exactly do you need more explaining about on that issue? I've asked you several times...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#750 Mar 25, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you make a claim that there are differing accounts of the pharisees "prevalence and influence" but you fail to show an example of what you are talking about. so how is one supposed to respond when one fails to see what you claim exists because we have no idea what you are talking about?
i was assuming you have at least a working knowledge of the bible you profess to follow.

i'm willing to wait while you read up on your faith...
barry

Pisgah, AL

#752 Mar 26, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." christ stops the stoning of an adulteress, despite the fact that the stoning is commanded in the old laws. What else does this look like other than a Biblical contradiction! When you say that these lists aren't meant to be analyzed, I think you realy mean "I don't like the conclusion that is reach" to bad there are no others to pick.
first of all your example of the women and the stoning is flawed. the law was not followed in that case. apparently there wasn't anyone there without sin and there was more to the case then a simple attempt to execute the law. all of the accusers left. none were willing to make the case. so what was your point again? there is no contradiction if you actually spend time and study the word of God and think logically.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#753 Mar 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i was assuming you have at least a working knowledge of the bible you profess to follow.
i'm willing to wait while you read up on your faith...
so really you have no examples no evidence of your claim? oh, forgive me you made a n accusation so therefore it must be true. how academically lame is that. no wonder you doubt that God exists.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#754 Mar 26, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I said Judas was fat? You are hallucinating now.
<quoted text>
no, you didn't say that. i said it. hope that helps.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#755 Mar 26, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Here it is AGAIN Barry. Anyone wanna take bets on how much longer he will run and cower from this?
<quoted text>
You ask some questions, ok. you fail to show or explain your perception of any contradictions.
i'm just waiting for some enlightenment. until then you are just blowing wind.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#756 Mar 26, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Here it is AGAIN Barry. Anyone wanna take bets on how much longer he will run and cower from this?
<quoted text>
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Where was Mary and Joe's house when Jesus was born?
How many Women went to Jesus' tomb?
How did Judas die?
Did Jesus' family flee to egypt?
What did John the Baptist say to Jesus when he baptized him?
Was John even there or in prison already?
I could go on and on with these. Bottom line, to each of those questions the answer is... depends on what gospel you read.
So there you have it, 6 errors right off the top of my head without even trying.

you ask some questions, ok, where are the contradictions, you fail to show exactly what you perceive to be the contradiction.

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