Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

There are 1635 comments on the Q-Notes story from Feb 13, 2013, titled Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?. In it, Q-Notes reports that:

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Q-Notes.

barry

Pisgah, AL

#655 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, you mean the people that wrote that, not jesus. no-one copied downa single word jesus said. even though many of them supposedly thought he was a god.
not gonna happen in the real world... if anyone thought he was god, they would have written down everything he uttered. even in his sleep. they would have saved anything he ever touched.
your god myth is just a political advertisement created by people after jesus' death...
yes, his disciples did not believe that he was God. at least not for sure until he had risen and ascended into heaven. so why would they write everything? in light of the persecution and their traveling to other safer places, how would they save what they wrote?

now we do have Mathew's word that Jesus said that. Mathew was a disciple of Jesus. spent about 3.5 years of his life with him. if you don't want believe mathew. why should we believe you when you tell us that you are an unbeliever?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#656 Mar 22, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>yes, his disciples did not believe that he was God. at least not for sure until he had risen and ascended into heaven. so why would they write everything? in light of the persecution and their traveling to other safer places, how would they save what they wrote?
now we do have Mathew's word that Jesus said that. Mathew was a disciple of Jesus. spent about 3.5 years of his life with him. if you don't want believe mathew. why should we believe you when you tell us that you are an unbeliever?
so evena god couldn't convince humans he was a god? his miracles didn't convince them?

are you really sure about that idea that the apostles didn't believe he was a god? is that the current theological belief on the matter?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#657 Mar 22, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>yes, his disciples did not believe that he was God. at least not for sure until he had risen and ascended into heaven. so why would they write everything? in light of the persecution and their traveling to other safer places, how would they save what they wrote?
now we do have Mathew's word that Jesus said that. Mathew was a disciple of Jesus. spent about 3.5 years of his life with him. if you don't want believe mathew. why should we believe you when you tell us that you are an unbeliever?
even if they thought he was a messiah, a prophet or any such thing the same human character would apply...

look at how people fawn over a piece of toast they think has a mere saints face on it...

jesus was just used as a political advert...
barry

Pisgah, AL

#658 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>so evena god couldn't convince humans he was a god? his miracles didn't convince them?
are you really sure about that idea that the apostles didn't believe he was a god? is that the current theological belief on the matter?
the apostles were men of fear during the life and death of Christ. they all ran and hid. judas betrayed him. peter denied him three times. they thought he was the political messiah and were apparently disappointed when he died. they thought he was the "Son of God" but were not sure what that meant. maybe he was that "great prophet". They Called him Lord but they didn't really understand that he was God come in the flesh till after he arose and ascended into heaven. that is when they became bold and gladly submitted to the persecution of the government, proclaiming the gospel everywhere that they went.

i'm not sure who determines what the "current theological belief on the matter" is. nor do i care.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#659 Mar 22, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text> the apostles were men of fear during the life and death of Christ. they all ran and hid. judas betrayed him. peter denied him three times. they thought he was the political messiah and were apparently disappointed when he died. they thought he was the "Son of God" but were not sure what that meant. maybe he was that "great prophet". They Called him Lord but they didn't really understand that he was God come in the flesh till after he arose and ascended into heaven. that is when they became bold and gladly submitted to the persecution of the government, proclaiming the gospel everywhere that they went.
i'm not sure who determines what the "current theological belief on the matter" is. nor do i care.
There were others beside the apostles, no? the people who saw the "miracles"? that swhit wouldn't happen without causing a stir...

the divinity of jesus is a myth. he a was posterchild for political forces...

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#660 Mar 22, 2013
Matthew didn't write the book of Matthew you know. None of the apostles wrote their so called gospels.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>yes, his disciples did not believe that he was God. at least not for sure until he had risen and ascended into heaven. so why would they write everything? in light of the persecution and their traveling to other safer places, how would they save what they wrote?

now we do have Mathew's word that Jesus said that. Mathew was a disciple of Jesus. spent about 3.5 years of his life with him. if you don't want believe mathew. why should we believe you when you tell us that you are an unbeliever?

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#661 Mar 22, 2013
Lmfao! Your silly New Testament was written decades of not centuries later by fat sweaty Romans who didn't even properly speak Aramaic!
barry wrote:
<quoted text>the apostles were men of fear during the life and death of Christ. they all ran and hid. judas betrayed him. peter denied him three times. they thought he was the political messiah and were apparently disappointed when he died. they thought he was the "Son of God" but were not sure what that meant. maybe he was that "great prophet". They Called him Lord but they didn't really understand that he was God come in the flesh till after he arose and ascended into heaven. that is when they became bold and gladly submitted to the persecution of the government, proclaiming the gospel everywhere that they went.

i'm not sure who determines what the "current theological belief on the matter" is. nor do i care.
Lincoln

United States

#662 Mar 22, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Lmfao! Your silly New Testament was written decades of not centuries later by fat sweaty Romans who didn't even properly speak Aramaic!
<quoted text>
Dr. Dawkins did retreat from one of his previous comments.
At Reason Rally 2012 — a national atheist event — he had encouraged atheists to “ridicule” Catholics. In hindsight, he confessed,

“I think I did go too far,” though he claimed that he had not intended for ridicule to mean name-calling ..........

"fat sweaty Romans" were atheists for the most part?
barry

Pisgah, AL

#663 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>There were others beside the apostles, no? the people who saw the "miracles"? that swhit wouldn't happen without causing a stir...
the divinity of jesus is a myth. he a was posterchild for political forces...
oh, i don't know. there were 120 who remained faithful after the death of Christ and then 50 days later 3,000 converts followed by another 5,000 and the church grew rapidly.
all those who followed him for the miracles were not people of faith as evidenced by their leaving at his death.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#664 Mar 22, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Matthew didn't write the book of Matthew you know. None of the apostles wrote their so called gospels.
<quoted text>
oh, i guess you must have some authority or can link to some authority on that subject?
barry

Pisgah, AL

#665 Mar 22, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Lmfao! Your silly New Testament was written decades of not centuries later by fat sweaty Romans who didn't even properly speak Aramaic!
<quoted text>
you and who else believes this?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#666 Mar 22, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>oh, i don't know. there were 120 who remained faithful after the death of Christ and then 50 days later 3,000 converts followed by another 5,000 and the church grew rapidly.
all those who followed him for the miracles were not people of faith as evidenced by their leaving at his death.
still doesn't explain how people didn't act as they would if they saw him perform miracles or thought he was divine.

his story is a myth. they used a man for their political gains and you are a follower of that cult.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#667 Mar 22, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you and who else believes this?
everyone who looks at the bible objectively...

the story of jesus was told second hand at best...that would not happen if anyone thought he was a god or even possesed the ability to do miracles...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#668 Mar 22, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Prove it!
BTW
Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
Even this church is better than your church!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Xdd0edT-BeEXX
<quoted text>
Zombie Jesus! For the win! Better prepare for the zombie apocalypse, now with more Jesus!

:D

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#669 Mar 22, 2013
We know this from the secular historical record.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you and who else believes this?

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#670 Mar 22, 2013
Who are these 120 people?
What are their names?
Show historical proof they existed and made the claim that they witnesses these so called miracles.
Hercules worship exploded across cities in mere months, and Jospehus wrote several times about Hercules. So Hercules and his miracles must be true and correct by your logic.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>oh, i don't know. there were 120 who remained faithful after the death of Christ and then 50 days later 3,000 converts followed by another 5,000 and the church grew rapidly.
all those who followed him for the miracles were not people of faith as evidenced by their leaving at his death.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#671 Mar 22, 2013
Even several priests and pastors admit that the gospels were not penned by the so called apostles. Many bibles actually say the gospel according to Matthew showing that this may be Matthew's tale but not penned by him.

Fat sweaty Romans wanting to make some coin overheard these magical tales of Jesus and decided to document them. Even though they were of the Hellenistic faith, which we clearly see as they either added or agreed with the Hellenistic portions of the story that remain in the NT to this day. They wrote a synopsis of what street preachers were saying and then fleshed it out.

This is why quoting scripture is so funny! The words throughout the years have been changed, removed and added! Watch an actual word for word translation live of a bible scroll, without the person fleshing it out... You get a far different and meager version of the tale.

Call it creative licensing.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>oh, i guess you must have some authority or can link to some authority on that subject?
barry

Pisgah, AL

#672 Mar 22, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Who are these 120 people?
What are their names?
Show historical proof they existed and made the claim that they witnesses these so called miracles.
Hercules worship exploded across cities in mere months, and Jospehus wrote several times about Hercules. So Hercules and his miracles must be true and correct by your logic.
<quoted text>
using your logic can you prove that they aren't real?
now, exactly what did josephus say about hercules?

and just where is this hercules worship today? Christianity has survived over time.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#673 Mar 22, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Even several priests and pastors admit that the gospels were not penned by the so called apostles. Many bibles actually say the gospel according to Matthew showing that this may be Matthew's tale but not penned by him.
Fat sweaty Romans wanting to make some coin overheard these magical tales of Jesus and decided to document them. Even though they were of the Hellenistic faith, which we clearly see as they either added or agreed with the Hellenistic portions of the story that remain in the NT to this day. They wrote a synopsis of what street preachers were saying and then fleshed it out.
This is why quoting scripture is so funny! The words throughout the years have been changed, removed and added! Watch an actual word for word translation live of a bible scroll, without the person fleshing it out... You get a far different and meager version of the tale.
Call it creative licensing.
<quoted text>
barry wrote:
<quoted text>oh, i guess you must have some authority or can link to some authority on that subject?

maybe i guessed wrong.
barry

Pisgah, AL

#674 Mar 22, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text> still doesn't explain how people didn't act as they would if they saw him perform miracles or thought he was divine.
his story is a myth. they used a man for their political gains and you are a follower of that cult.
what good is a miracle worker if he can't save himself?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 5 min 15th Dalai Lama 87,647
Why does Congress have a Chaplain ? 22 hr Wilmington 1
How To Get To Heaven When You Die (Jan '17) 22 hr blacklagoon 3 258
News Why Atheist Richard Dawkins Supports Religious ... (Jun '17) Sat Wisdom of Ages 5,843
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) Feb 21 ChristineM 4,035
Christianity almost did not happen Feb 12 Quatsch22 1
News Egypt's parliament takes serious actions to com... Feb 12 dollarsbillmom 19
More from around the web