Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Feb 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Q-Notes

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

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581 - 600 of 1,638 Comments Last updated May 29, 2013

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#593
Mar 14, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>no, you're link was a response to this conversation;
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>sold inot slavery and willingly going into slavery in two consecutive posts...
hmmmm..
how bout the children of those slaves that your god ays the slave owner now owns forever? how do you rationalize that horrid par of your god myth away?
this should be fun to watch...
my response was;
post a link and i will respond.
you posted and i responded. now you are trying to claim that your post was in response to something else? nice try.
so let's go again; you want to post a link that says "(my) god clearly and openly says one human can own another human for their entire life."?
i came into this long before that...

how do you get around the fact that your "god" says its OK to own another human for theri entire life?
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#594
Mar 14, 2013
 
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Or is it
Some "Catholics to this day still defend the inquisition." ?
you might be right. while pope jp2 did apologize for the inquisition finally in the year 2000 many believed he was wrong to do so. i find very few catholic apologist that agree with him
this one for example;
.http://www.traditioninaction. org/religious/m004rpInquisitio n_Jan04.htm
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#595
Mar 14, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>so how does any human know hte word of your mythical god at all? if the bible is not perfect.(and we know it isn't...) then on what do you base this idea of your god upon?
You just stated the the whole basis of your god nad your concept of your god is questionable.
how does that work?
no, i never stated that "the whole basis of your god nad your concept of your god is questionable." don't be making things up now.

and "we" don't agree on "we know it isn't". you might know something but i know differently.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#596
Mar 14, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i came into this long before that...
how do you get around the fact that your "god" says its OK to own another human for theri entire life?
maybe you did. i only jumped in to set some "facts" straight. however, perhaps you could post a link on ""god" says its OK to own another human for theri entire life?"

and i'll look at where you get your thinking from.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#597
Mar 14, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Jesus told children sitting at his feet that the end of the world would happen before they died. That didn't happen.
He either lied or failed.
<quoted text>
you make another claim, now can you post the reference or is this something else that you heard?

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

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#598
Mar 14, 2013
 
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare,'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Just saying.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#599
Mar 14, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>maybe you did. i only jumped in to set some "facts" straight. however, perhaps you could post a link on ""god" says its OK to own another human for theri entire life?"
and i'll look at where you get your thinking from.
you seriously don't know your own bible? even after i gave you the "god said unto moases clue? seriously?

i think your bullshitting me abut being a serious baptist of any kind. no strict baptist i've ever met would know the leviticus chapter...

Since: Mar 11

United States

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#600
Mar 14, 2013
 
Typical Christian move, I even posted an apologetic website stating children were born into slavery and property like their parents and as expected he ignored it.
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>no, the original point is that your god clearly and openly says one human can own another human for their entire life.
how do you square that with yourself? why can't you answer that simple question?

Since: Mar 11

United States

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#601
Mar 14, 2013
 
Not to mention he claims to not know about the verse where Jesus tells children that some of them would not die before the end of the world and his return. I knew that crap as a kid in Sunday school but he doesn't?

Either he is lying or isn't a baptist.
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>you seriously don't know your own bible? even after i gave you the "god said unto moases clue? seriously?
i think your bullshitting me abut being a serious baptist of any kind. no strict baptist i've ever met would know the leviticus chapter...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#602
Mar 14, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Not to mention he claims to not know about the verse where Jesus tells children that some of them would not die before the end of the world and his return. I knew that crap as a kid in Sunday school but he doesn't?
Either he is lying or isn't a baptist.
<quoted text>
you have to remember the first rule of cults..knowledge is bad.

the very first lesson in their cult 9from the garden of Eden) is "Do not seek outside knowledge. Do just as you are told and all will be perfect." knowledge is the death knell of cults.

this would explain why as a rule, religious cult members know less about their cults than non-beleivers do...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#603
Mar 14, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>sold into servitude to pay off a debt with the limit of time to serve being 7 years; yes. your concept of slavery is clouded by the awful things that this country did to the blacks. that was not the slavery condoned in the Bible. do try to stay on topic.
7 years ONLY if you were a Jew. Not if you were a gentile-- then it's for life.

You really don't know your own evil BuyBull, do you?

LOL!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#604
Mar 14, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>no you're wrong. go ahead and post a link. i answered the question about why a person would willingly become a slave. you are trying to shift the conversation.
LOL!

You are beginning to sound....

... desperate.

LOL!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#605
Mar 14, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the chains are on you cult members' minds, so you'd have to tell us rational thinkers...
I suspect in Lincoln's case, he'd have to have a brain transplant first.

His current one isn't working.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#606
Mar 14, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
You are beginning to sound....
... desperate.
LOL!
yes, very desperate...

it must suck to find your 'god' is less moral than you are...

now what one does with this newfound knowledge is up to personal character...leave the cult and start thinking for oneself or fall back into the old ways of denial and ignorance...


being this is the US, i'd go with the latter...freethinking takes actual effort.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#607
Mar 14, 2013
 

Judged:

1

woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yes, very desperate...
it must suck to find your 'god' is less moral than you are...
now what one does with this newfound knowledge is up to personal character...leave the cult and start thinking for oneself or fall back into the old ways of denial and ignorance...
being this is the US, i'd go with the latter...freethinking takes actual effort.
Indeed.

Sometimes actual reality takes a great deal of knowledge that must be studied at length, just to get close to the answer of some of the fundamental questions about it.

Take gravity: to even have a little glimpse of the underlying mechanisms, it takes years of study just to have a grasp of the complex mathematics. Then even more complex study to get close to understanding of what modern physicists are talking about.

Reality is often hard. It doesn't care if we mere humans understand it or no: if you fall from a great height without a parachute, reality will kill you just as dead if you are 100% ignorant of gravity, than if you understand the latest cutting-edge theories.

Reality doesn't care.

Which, I suspect is the problem: True Believers™ cannot stand that idea-- they insist that the universe MUST revolve around little old they.

So they cling to this "god" idea, claiming a special personal relationship with the Ultimate Creator.

... meh.

Ego.

It all boils down to the ego of True Believers™.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#608
Mar 14, 2013
 
Yes pure fundie desperation. I have debated and destroyed this Filipino cult goon and he does the exact same thing.

Starts losing and he goes on these wild bizarre rants claiming you said something that you in no way said and other lame redirection tactics. Or will go way off topic babbling about just any random subject, not making any sense at all desperately trying to redirect the conversation and heat away from him.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
You are beginning to sound....
... desperate.
LOL!
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#610
Mar 21, 2013
 
Very Cynical Person wrote:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare,'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Just saying.
just misinterpreting.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#611
Mar 21, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>you seriously don't know your own bible? even after i gave you the "god said unto moases clue? seriously?
i think your bullshitting me abut being a serious baptist of any kind. no strict baptist i've ever met would know the leviticus chapter...
still waiting for your link or reference. just wondering if you have any.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#612
Mar 21, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Typical Christian move, I even posted an apologetic website stating children were born into slavery and property like their parents and as expected he ignored it.
<quoted text>
you must have missed this;
Givemeliberty wrote:
Again those rules only apply to Hebrew slaves not non hebreew slaves. You keep running away from that.
Noah damns his son Ham and all of his family's future generations to be slaves. Genesis 9: 18-27.
And more... From a christian website no less!
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/800 ...
Slaves might be obtained in a variety of ways. Generally they were acquired as prisoners of war, as a result of the various conquests that Israel was authorized to wage (cf. Num. 31:7-9). In an Israelite home, servitude could be an advantage over death, because servants were to be viewed as household members. Sometimes servants were obtained as gifts (Gen. 29:24), or through purchase (Lev. 25:44). The offspring of slaves automatically belonged to the same owner (Ex. 21:4).
The offspring of slaves automatically belonged to the same owner.
Still want to talk debt?
Paul ordered Onesimus an escaped slave to return to his Christian slave master.
<quoted text>
nice try. at least it is an honest attempt and presents points that can be addressed.

#1 your understanding of who was cursed in Genesis 9 is a bit off. but that is ok. i can still answer the claim.
#2 the word used is serve or "servant" there are many classes of servants in the Bible which would also include a slave. for example kings had servants in their courts who obviously would not be involuntary slaves. the prophets had "servants" who obviously were not involuntary slave. so to claim that they were damned to slavery is not accurate. the better understanding is that they will never rule over the other children of Shem and Japeth.
#3 "servitude could be an advantage over death, because servants were to be viewed as household members." (from your post above)
#4 don't isolate vs4 from the rest of the chapter.
vs2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

vs3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
vs4 explains another situation;
If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

so the children stay with the mother. the mother may not have been a "slave" or a servant. she may not have had a master. but if she did or was a slave the children stayed with her. and when she went free so did they.

then of course the next two verses tell what happens if a man wants to stay and serve his master voluntarily. a concept that you seem to have difficulty comprehending. that the life of service to his master might just be a more comfortable life with better benefits, housing and food then he had as a free man.

Vs5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:

vs6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

#5 Paul "ordered" Onesimus to return for two reasons. as a Christian he could not live a Godly life running from the law of the land.
and he actually tells his master to take him back not as a servant but as a brother. read the book.

the original point is that American slavery as it came to exist was never endorsed by the Bible.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#613
Mar 21, 2013
 
barry wrote:
<quoted text>just misinterpreting.
Nope. Not even a little bit "misinterpreting".

Here's why:

If your bible is DIVINE as you claim?

Then it would not NEED "interpreting"... it would stand on it's own merits.

But the very fact that you HAVE to claim "interpret" the bible?

Proves to 100%, that it's not even a little bit divine...

Thanks!

You are helping to discredit your cult.

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