Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?

There are 1638 comments on the Q-Notes story from Feb 13, 2013, titled Should Billy Graham's legacy be rescued?. In it, Q-Notes reports that:

President Barack Obama with Rev. Billy Graham at his house in Montreat, N.C., April 25, 2010.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Q-Notes.

serfs up

Kissimmee, FL

#367 Feb 28, 2013
There are touchy subjects in America and this is one of them. Jewish men and women are a group like all others. Like all others there are good, bad and evil people in their group. Because their group is powerful and protected, there are evil people who are zionists who do what they want. And destroy who gets in their way. This has caused misery for the Jewish population as a whole. Since i was raised in a Christian education I was taught biblical scripture. Don't screw over Jewish people. So I follow it. Now in America we have many people with power who tell others what to do and how to do it. Some are Jewish of course, with a percentage zionist jews or using their heritage. If you tell me you have suffered in history. and you constantly have literature,movies, televison programs and everything else about it, then you bend over backwards to not do the same to others. In Washington D.C., there are many zionist jews who are elected or non elected involved in things that are questionable. Pertaining to our foreign policy which is something to argue, and to the domestic issues involving civil rights and the warp drive expansion of the police state. The police state bothers me because of the complaints in history of how people treat them. So seeing all of the laws enacted over the years and new departments that are designed to emasculate and humble all people, I don't get it. And it would be a good thing if all zionist jews in Washington would remove themselves from any police apparatus type of situation. But they won't. Get rid of Homeland Security, the TSA, the patriot acts, the drones, the plans for camps, surveillance policies, etc... get rid of all of it! For neighbor will kill neighbor..neighbor will rat out neighbor....And to jewish men and women, please tell these evil people to stop this. Indeeed tell them to get in the forefront of keeping our freedoms! p.s...it is not jus tthem in this mad dash for world power. But this is just one issue of many and the loss of our rights.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#368 Feb 28, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Again your Link doesn't work. This game of your's is getting tiring now.
<quoted text>
Again your Link doesn't work. This game of your's is getting tiring now.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>liar,liar, pants on fire...you haven't used that one yet.
however on feb 20 post #69 you made this claim;
"Not a single document, letter, diary, book-of-whatever, was written about your Jewsus during his life." [and you're right. he only lived 33yrs. not too many people who only live 33yrs have a book writen about them during their life time however you said this;]
"Not one. All--without exception-- were written 60, 90, 100's of years AFTER.
And in THOSE days? That is generations too late.
So there you go: the bible you worship?
100% fiction."
then in post #86 you posted this as your "proof"
"Here's an excellent source--it has many references to where the information came from, too.
" http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richar ... ;
But I will bet you $20 that you won't click on it, or of you do--you won't read beyond the title page.
People such as yourself, prefer living the lie, and avoid at all costs, the actual...
... facts."
so i clicked on the link and this is what it said;
"All the Gospels except John contain possible allusions to the destruction of Jerusalem, which was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D., and thus it is likely they were all written after that date.[2] But that assumes the statements attributed to Jesus are apocryphal--they may have been genuine, the usual doom and gloom apocalyptic fantasizing, and then confirmed only by accident (or, if one is a believer, divine destiny) when the city and its temple were actually destroyed. They could also have been added to the text later. On the other hand, it has been argued with some merit that Luke borrowed material from Josephus, and if so that would date his Gospel (and Acts) after 94 A.D.[3] Finally, there are good arguments for the existence of a lost source-text called Q which was used by Matthew and Luke to supplement their borrowing from Mark, and this has been speculatively dated as early as the 50's A.D.[3a]"
"This is only an example of the state of ignorance we are in whenever scholars try to debate the dates of these writings. Although it remains possible that all the Gospels were written after 100, those rare scholars who try to place all Christian writings in the 2nd century have nothing to base such a position on."
then in post 114 you admit that;
"Your Jewsus was allegedly born on or around 3BCE. And died approximately 33 years later, at around 30CE.
...

the only link in here was bob's link. it worked for me as you can see i posted from it. topix sometimes shortens them but i was able to go back to it and copy from it. sorry if your computer didn't allow you but you really need to take it up with bob.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#369 Feb 28, 2013
Non working link to a blogger site? Stop humiliating yourself.
barry wrote:
<quoted text> yes,the copy that topix abbreviated did not work i hand typed the full list and it works
barry

Rainsville, AL

#370 Feb 28, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, but I was unaware he was taking that particular dodge.
I really only skim most of his shyte, as not being worth the time to read.
:)
He's become rather a bore, so I've started skipping over the majority of his whining.
hey bob, i thought that you had "proved beyond a shadow of a doubt...";

"I proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt-- ALL the bits in Josephus' writings that mention your ficiontal jesus, are in the WRONG LANGUAGE.

Why is this so very hard for you to grasp?

The language used, was TOO NEW, to have been written by Josephus.

There really is no two ways about it-- it's a fraudulent passage, written by people who lie for a living."

apparently mads still has some doubts about your claim;

madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
"You're probably aware that Richard Carrier argues that the passage may have been written by Josephus but he was actually writing about Jesus Ben Sira (I think that's the right name, there were so many dudes named Yeshua back then)."

and now apparently you're not so sure about your "proof"
"Bob of Quantum-Faith"]<quoted text>
Thanks, but I was unaware...

interesting, which of you is right or are you not so sure?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#371 Feb 28, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Non working link to a blogger site? Stop humiliating yourself.
<quoted text>
you're right, i just clicked on my typed in site and it didn't work. i went back to my history and it didn't work and then without touching anything it popped up.
so here it is again;
http://oldsite.atheists.org/wiki/images/c/cf/...

google the title of the article;

The Myth of Nazareth: The Invented Town of Jesus
by
René Salm
[Approx. 4,000 words]

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#372 Feb 28, 2013
Reading comprehension would help you in this case.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so which is it. the passage must be a forged addition or it was talking about someone else? it surely must be one of the two because otherwise it would disprove your claims.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#373 Feb 28, 2013
Barry's making a right jackass out of himself this morning. Christhole's tend to do that on here.
Thinking wrote:
Proof of no god here:
www.youtube.com/watch...
<quoted text>
barry

Rainsville, AL

#374 Feb 28, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oldsite is a blogging site where anyone can blog about anything. Even if your links worked they are leading to an unreliable source. You can find snakemen rule the world blogs on Oldsite!
Stop being a christhole, Nazareth didn't exist until the second century, just accept it.
<quoted text>
so you reject an atheistic post because of where i found it? it was still posted by an atheist. so an atheist is a snakeman by association?
barry

Rainsville, AL

#375 Feb 28, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Reading comprehension would help you in this case.
<quoted text>
oh, then explain bob's position to me in light of mads assertion.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#376 Feb 28, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Reading comprehension would help you in this case.
<quoted text>
this comming from the guy who doesn't know where joppa is. you must be kin to bob.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#377 Feb 28, 2013
Pathetic!

"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

the Testimonium Flavianum has been demonstrated continually over the centuries to be a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius in the fourth century. So thorough and universal has been this debunking that very few scholars of repute continued to cite the passage after the turn of the 19th century.

Following is a list of important Christian authorities who studied and/or mentioned Josephus but not the Jesus passage:

Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165), who obviously pored over Josephus's works, makes no mention of the TF.
Theophilus (d. 180), Bishop of Antioch--no mention of the TF.
Irenaeus (c. 120/140-c. 200/203), saint and compiler of the New Testament, has not a word about the TF.
Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-211/215), influential Greek theologian and prolific Christian writer, head of the Alexandrian school, says nothing about the TF.
Origen (c. 185-c. 254), no mention of the TF and specifically states that Josephus did not believe Jesus was "the Christ."
Hippolytus (c. 170-c. 235), saint and martyr, nothing about the TF.
The author of the ancient Syriac text, "History of Armenia," refers to Josephus but not the TF.
Minucius Felix (d. c. 250), lawyer and Christian convert--no mention of the TF.
Anatolius (230-c. 270/280)--no mention of TF.
Chrysostom (c. 347-407), saint and Syrian prelate, not a word about the TF.
Methodius, saint of the 9th century--even at this late date there were apparently copies of Josephus without the TF, as Methodius makes no mention of it.
Photius (c. 820-891), Patriarch of Constantinople, not a word about the TF, again indicating copies of Josephus devoid of the passage, or, perhaps, a rejection of it because it was understood to be fraudulent.

Working links look like this...

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#378 Feb 28, 2013
Provide a working link first okay Christhole, so we can see what this supposed atheist said? And surely it couldn't be a Christian pretending to be an Atheist to support his opinion!

And even if it is an Atheist that would mean little as historic fact backs up what I am saying. Even if it is an Atheist He/She is factually incorrect in asserting Josephus provides proof for Jesus.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you reject an atheistic post because of where i found it? it was still posted by an atheist. so an atheist is a snakeman by association?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#380 Feb 28, 2013
Oops! Sorry your non orwking link is about proof ofr Nazareth existing in the first century not Josephus' forged Jesus passage.

Here's a working link for you.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.htm...

The expression 'Jesus of Nazareth' is actually a bad translation of the original Greek 'Jesous o Nazoraios'(see below). More accurately, we should speak of 'Jesus the Nazarene' where Nazarene has a meaning quite unrelated to a place name. But just what is that meaning and how did it get applied to a small village? The highly ambiguous Hebrew root of the name is NZR.

The 2nd century gnostic Gospel of Philip offers this explanation:

'The apostles that came before us called him Jesus Nazarene the Christ ..."Nazara" is the "Truth". Therefore 'Nazarene' is "The One of the Truth" ...'

– Gospel of Philip, 47.

What we do know is that 'Nazarene'(or 'Nazorean') was originally the name of an early Jewish-Christian sect – a faction, or off-shoot, of the Essenes. They had no particular relation to a city of Nazareth. The root of their name may have been 'Truth' or it may have been the Hebrew noun 'netser'('netzor'), meaning 'branch' or 'flower.' The plural of 'Netzor' becomes 'Netzoreem.' There is no mention of the Nazarenes in any of Paul's writings, although ironically, Paul is himself accused of being a Nazorean in Acts of the Apostles. The reference scarcely means that Paul was a resident of Nazareth (we all know the guy hails from Tarsus!).

'For finding this man a pest, and moving sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a leader of the sect of the Nazaraeans.'– Acts 24.5.(Darby Translation).

The Nazorim emerged towards the end of the 1st century, after a curse had been placed on heretics in Jewish daily prayer.

'Three times a day they say: May God curse the Nazarenes'.

– Epiphanius (Panarion 29.9.2).
barry wrote:

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#382 Feb 28, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>be careful. lw lied, bg never said anything about "satanic jews".
In fact he did, and worse:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/...

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/17/us/billy-gr...

again, the inherent divisivness of religious cults is shown clearly...

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#383 Feb 28, 2013
I looked Mr. Salm up and it looks like he agrees that Nazareth didn't exist until way after the time of Jesus when the gospels were being edited but even then his dates are way to wary on Nazareth and when he thinks the gospels were being edited.

Use reading comprehension next time Barry.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>you're right, i just clicked on my typed in site and it didn't work. i went back to my history and it didn't work and then without touching anything it popped up.
so here it is again;
http://oldsite.atheists.org/wiki/images/c/cf/...
google the title of the article;
The Myth of Nazareth: The Invented Town of Jesus
by
René Salm
[Approx. 4,000 words]

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#384 Feb 28, 2013
Shhhh you're humiliating yourself again. Reel in that childish temper tantrum now. Nazareth didn't even exist in the time of Jesus.
barry wrote:
<quoted text>this comming from the guy who doesn't know where joppa is. you must be kin to bob.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#385 Feb 28, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>especially when you can't do basic math or read and comprehend the one site that you posted as evidence. perhaps that would explain why you shy away from attempting to post sites to support your claim.
It's evidence you are too afraid to read-- you even admitted that you didn't read the whole article.

Sad.

Clearly, when faced with FACTS, you run and hide like they lying little True Believer™ you are.

You are never bothered by FACT-- and why not?

You have your nice, warm lies to "comfort" you in your ignorance.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#386 Feb 28, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>especially when you can't do basic math or read and comprehend the one site that you posted as evidence. perhaps that would explain why you shy away from attempting to post sites to support your claim.
As for the math bit?

What sort of "math" are you talking of?

Xianist "math" where you claim 1 + 1 + 1 = 1?

Would THAT be the sort of "math" you are whining of?

You silly Xianists-- you claim to be "monotheistic" when in FACT, you are nothing of the sort!

You have any number of gods--

1) your bible-- you worship this like it was a god-- you refuse to change one period of it's evil wordage, why? Because you worship it!

2) your jewsus -- you worship this fictional man like he was your personal lover/slave. Kinda kinky, really

3) your god/father -- this is your personal wishing machine, whom you say special wishes to each day-- you call these wishes "prayers".

4) your holy goat/holy dove/holy rapist -- this is the "ghostly" part of your panetheon, the one you believe raped an underage teen Mary in order to begat the jewsus character.

5) Mary, the underaged teen-mother of jewsus-- whom most of you also worship like a god-- many of you Xianists ask HER for your wishes (prayers)

6) various Saints: peter, paul, john, etc, etc, etc, etc-- too many to count here, but each of these are literal gods as well-- they are granted special godlike magical powers, and many of you also ask them for wishes (prayers).

Shall I go on? Or are you embarrassed enough?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#387 Feb 28, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text> oh, sorry i must have missed it. what post was it in or could you simply re-list it?
No.

You would run away once more.

Pity you.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#388 Feb 28, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Proof of no god here:
www.youtube.com/watch...
<quoted text>
Well done!

LOL!

Sarcasm at it's finest.

:)

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