Gitmo Prison Guard Converts From Atheism To Islam After Seeing...

Apr 6, 2013 Full story: Mediaite.com 1,239

CNN has an amazing story out of Guantanamo Bay about an American atheist prison camp guard that converted to Islam after spending extensive time talking to with some of the English speaking prisoners there.

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“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#163 May 27, 2013
It said there was an error so why is my first try posted? Seeker just ignore the second post Topix is acting funny.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#164 May 27, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
We could have lengthy discussion on what agnosticism and atheism mean, and they all also depend on the definition of "god". The existence of a "god", as defined by most religious groups, is in my opinion sufficiently debunked to call myself an atheist.
Well, there is nothing illogical about saying that you do not believe in God, as defined to you. I believe that much in the Bible is a story that is told the only way that people could understand things back then, and I DO think that some of the books that were added shouldn't have been added. But much of it can actually be symbolic. And I have been very close to outright Atheism, and it wasn't until i read mystics that I started to not be so hasty. When I understood them and went back and read Jesus' words, I actually understood them for the first time and I was like "why didn't I see it, it was right there the whole time?"

My first thought was that I find it highly unlikely that people of his time, location and culture would make up these sayings of his because they had no exposure to and no understanding of the concepts his words really point to. They simply didn't think that way, and not only did nobody of that culture think that way, few even think that way even today. When people make up a story, they want it to be as believable as possible. They don't make up sayings that nobody would understand including they themselves, they make up clear, understandable things so that people will believe them.

This reminds me very much of the Quran. It's exactly the sort of thing that one would invent if they want people to believe it. There is ZERO depth to the entire book, and not only was Muhammad a very shallow thinker, he was ALSO quite confused by the words of Jesus and while he was claiming to follow him up, he had no idea how badly he contradicted him sometimes, because he had no idea of what Jesus was really saying as many didn't, and I still think that many today don't.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#165 May 27, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know that most people who plan those things get arrested before they done what they were planing to do, but there are some who slip the net. The is only one way to stop people slip the net is witch hunts to assume one is guilty until proven innocent.
No one wants to be like that so if the guard does start killing people, we have to say nothing could be done the alternative is to risky and evil.
I understand. It is the same concept of the legal system which says that it is better to let 100 guilty men go free than to convict one innocent man. That has merit, but boy, what an expensive, lofty ideal it is. But this guy is a soldier anyway. He goes where they put him. He's not acting as a civilian. For all we know, he doesn't even want to be a prison guard, he merely goes where they send him. But if he didn't want to be a guard there before, I can bet he wants to be one now.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#166 May 27, 2013
Oh, and Ben, you can bet the people who converted him will be working on him tirelessly so that he understands his real duty and allegiance now that he is a Muslim. No doubt about that. The risk isn't even so much in the prisoners, it's in the scriptures that he has accepted as the truth. Just like the Fort Hood guy. The media wants to paint him as merely crazy, but the guy was a Psychologist. But he was also a Muslim as well and I'm guessing that he knew his scriptures well and could no longer deny his Islamic duty. Just like the guys in the UK. I recognized exactly what they were saying, because I know the Quran and Islamic concepts very well, and according to the Quran, they were right.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#167 May 27, 2013
Also Ben, don't listen to Muslims, they will never tell you the real truth. Listen to ex Muslims who were even raised as Muslims. I'll bet they understand exactly why the two in the UK did what they did.

Maybe you can ask about that here and see what you get. I'll doubt they will tell you that their actions have no basis in Islam. I think they know better.

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php...

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#168 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I asked before. Were you ever abused by a priest? Usually, someone just says that it's nonsense and not worth their time, but you have a particular hatred for it that's unusually high.
Which sock was it, that you were wearing then?

The reason evil finds so great a space to invade is that, so many will not object, unless it is in their faces. To stand against wrong doing is every humans obligation, haven't you ever noticed that even the complete despot will not let you rob his mother? How can you so willingly accept that wrong doing is so blatantly indulged in, by your own peer group?

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#169 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I was talking about forcing a Church to marry someone. There are Justices of the Peace that can do this if the Church doesn't want to. I think that's enough of this angry, nonsense conversation.
Forcing a church? Really, wouldn't it be more likely that a clergy man would be the one to decide, as they already do?

Who cares that a clergy man would be involved? That has never been the issue. But, hey ... you just go ahead and with that deep sea fishing, out in the parking lot.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#170 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
The programmer can never be a part of the program? Anyway, this discussion was about proving that God doesn't exist. You never said anything about a specific biblical version of God. but even that isn't PROVABLE to be wrong, one can only see it is highly unlikely and therefore they do not believe it.
<quoted text>
Actually, I am a software developer and it was the first thing that came to my mind. I wasn't even aware of what you were talking about because I rarely even bother to engage in conversations about this.
<quoted text>
You don't even understand anything they say nor have you ever bothered to read them, so your opinion means nothing either. Sorry.
<quoted text>
If God existed, then why doesn't he do xyz? Why doesn't he just show himself? It's a familiar argument. Like I said, if you want to say that God doesn't exist because God doesn't behave the way you think he or it should, then that's at least a fair reason. You've certainly considered the existence of God, and these are some of the reasons that people reject the notion.
<quoted text>
Another of the xyz stated above. If God existed, then surely God would be demonstrable in ways that I find acceptable or think God should be demonstrated as.
<quoted text>
Did you really understand my quote from Heisenberg? It's not beyond the conceptualizing mind?
Heisenberg again.
"“Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think.”
<quoted text>
Ask Heisenberg. Ask any mystic. When I said all things are possible, I didn't mean that all things are possible to be understood by the conceptualizing mind. I understand your mindset completely. It's just regular, plain common sense. What's there to understand about that? It's easy. But it would appear that most of your knowledge is strictly within science. But even any good scientist will tell you that fact is merely a consistent, reliable replication of results or observations, but there really is no such thing as a true fact. Fact is only fact insofar as we are equipped to tell.
Again, your thinking appears to be extremely rigid, so this is going to go nowhere. Einstein didn't revolutionize things because he was such a great Mathematician or Physicist, he arrived at his conclusion by being able to think outside of the box, rather than have his mathematical information drown him.
Your programmer put four legs on his insect creations, and made rabbits who chew cud. Reality says those things just don't exist, and that evolution has designed insect with 6 legs. And, a careful counting of the legs of all existent insects will prove them to have 6 each.

Seriously it doesn't matter how many legs you lot, pull off* of them, the next bunch of insects hatched will have 6 legs each, too.

*it still doesn't make the god of 4 legged bugs be true.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#171 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, fluctuations from what or of what? I remember a guy who explained that something can come from nothing and he used an example of an empty ditch that attracted dirt to it. So the empty ditch was represented as nothingness, but what about the dirt that filled it? I can't remember the exact example he used but I remember that this guy was purposefully ignoring the last and final unsolvable question and merely rearranging the question.
If something appears out of thin air, how do we know it didn't come from a parallel universe that we don't know about? And where did the parallel universe come from? Suppose we have two parallel universes or many that keep feeding each other back and forth. This seems to be a solution offered by some, and then they proceed to say problem solved, completely ignoring the question of where the parallel universes come from. We are willing to trick ourselves so that we can breath a sigh of relief and say that we know, we finally know, because we don't like not knowing things. It bothers us. But it's always one piece of the puzzle that gets ignored so that we can create an answer for ourselves, and I'm convinced that it always will be ignored.
When something appears out of thin air, we will just assume, that the one who claims to have seen it has recently visited a parallel universe via the bottle or some other substance, or is a religitard seeing god-things.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#172 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand. It is the same concept of the legal system which says that it is better to let 100 guilty men go free than to convict one innocent man. That has merit, but boy, what an expensive, lofty ideal it is. But this guy is a soldier anyway. He goes where they put him. He's not acting as a civilian. For all we know, he doesn't even want to be a prison guard, he merely goes where they send him. But if he didn't want to be a guard there before, I can bet he wants to be one now.
It's not expensive it makes the state think before locking someone up, and would you trust anyone who say guilty until proven innocent it is the perfect cover for removing a political enemy. 100 guilty men free is better than one omnipotent state.
You do know soldiers can ask for a transfer.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#173 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Oh, and Ben, you can bet the people who converted him will be working on him tirelessly so that he understands his real duty and allegiance now that he is a Muslim. No doubt about that. The risk isn't even so much in the prisoners, it's in the scriptures that he has accepted as the truth. Just like the Fort Hood guy. The media wants to paint him as merely crazy, but the guy was a Psychologist. But he was also a Muslim as well and I'm guessing that he knew his scriptures well and could no longer deny his Islamic duty. Just like the guys in the UK. I recognized exactly what they were saying, because I know the Quran and Islamic concepts very well, and according to the Quran, they were right.
If the guard is working on his prisoners tirelessly so that they understand the real duty's of a human being what then? Does he become useful.
The Bible has many of the same evils as the quran as you can see by looking at the the skeptic's annotated bible and the skeptic's annotated quran. This most mean that christian who has also accepted his/her scriptures is a security risk, but it doesn't as most religious people treat quotes from their holy book like a fashion accessory, picking what suits them per subject (a list of examples can be given in a post if you wish, and I have a lot to choose from).

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#174 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Also Ben, don't listen to Muslims, they will never tell you the real truth. Listen to ex Muslims who were even raised as Muslims. I'll bet they understand exactly why the two in the UK did what they did.
Maybe you can ask about that here and see what you get. I'll doubt they will tell you that their actions have no basis in Islam. I think they know better.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php...
I know that, like all the religious they lie or just don't know anything about their religion.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#175 May 27, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Which sock was it, that you were wearing then?
The reason evil finds so great a space to invade is that, so many will not object, unless it is in their faces. To stand against wrong doing is every humans obligation, haven't you ever noticed that even the complete despot will not let you rob his mother? How can you so willingly accept that wrong doing is so blatantly indulged in, by your own peer group?
Well you never answered the question I asked about being abused by a priest, and then you ask me which sock I was wearing when i asked this, when clearly you are wearing a new one. You become more and more unstable with every post you make. I used to think you were reasonable at first glance.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#176 May 27, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not expensive it makes the state think before locking someone up,
My brother is an attorney and so are many of my friends. It's very expensive, although not them them, they always get paid no matter what. I never said it was wrong.
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
and would you trust anyone who say guilty until proven innocent it is the perfect cover for removing a political enemy. 100 guilty men free is better than one omnipotent state.
Well that isn't even the legal concept at all, and now you want to turn it into the big bad guy government. I'm losing confidence in this conversation. The concept is that the worst crime that can be committed is to convict an innocent man, whether government motives or political aspects are involved or not. In murder cases, usually the government has no stake in it one way or the other. Did the government have a big stake in the OJ case?
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know soldiers can ask for a transfer.
It's not easy, and I doubt he wants a transfer anymore. Maybe he did, but not anymore. He's right there with the people that converted him. Anyway, I'm getting the impression that you don't even read half of the things that I say anyway. So it's getting rather pointless.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#177 May 27, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Your programmer put four legs on his insect creations, and made rabbits who chew cud. Reality says those things just don't exist,
Reality? Choose your words carefully. Didn't you used to have a screen name of Quantum Bob? Now it's "Reason Personified"? Tell us all when we are going to see this solid reasoning from Reason Personified". Tell us all when you are planning to personify it.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#178 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you never answered the question I asked about being abused by a priest, and then you ask me which sock I was wearing when i asked this, when clearly you are wearing a new one. You become more and more unstable with every post you make. I used to think you were reasonable at first glance.
Did you ask me if I had been abused by a priest? I thought you had asked Bob, that.

Well no matter, I will answer it anyway. I have met exactly one priest, who just a few years ago, came into a bar that I owned, and he came for his own purposes. First, one of his parishioners*, had decided to end it all, and had called him to confess and say goodbye, and they met for a drink. Second, this priest saw for himself, a group of potential customers, among my customers. He did ask permission to hawk a waterless car wash system ... we enjoyed the presentation. He made no sales. Did he abuse me? Nah!

As for your assertion that I am becoming more unstable with each post, let's see how that plays out, OK?
BTW: to correctly assess a poster, one should invest more than that first glance.

*This parishioner didn't last long, but it was from an execution styled murder, over a drug deal, gone wrong, rather than suicide.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#179 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
My brother is an attorney and so are many of my friends. It's very expensive, although not them them, they always get paid no matter what. I never said it was wrong.
<quoted text>
Well that isn't even the legal concept at all, and now you want to turn it into the big bad guy government. I'm losing confidence in this conversation. The concept is that the worst crime that can be committed is to convict an innocent man, whether government motives or political aspects are involved or not. In murder cases, usually the government has no stake in it one way or the other. Did the government have a big stake in the OJ case?
<quoted text>
It's not easy, and I doubt he wants a transfer anymore. Maybe he did, but not anymore. He's right there with the people that converted him. Anyway, I'm getting the impression that you don't even read half of the things that I say anyway. So it's getting rather pointless.
It is a legal concept as the powers of the state come in the form of laws. How does converting to Islam make him not want a transfer, it doesn't as I explained in post 173 most religious people pick what they like, so if he doesn't want to be a terrorist he will just ignore the quotes from the quran that justifies terrorism. I don't know how you can do this, I've never been religious but yet thats how it goes, no matter how blood the holy book has the faithful ignore it.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180 May 27, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Did you ask me if I had been abused by a priest? I thought you had asked Bob, that.
I thought you were the same guy. If not, my bad, Sorry.
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>
Well no matter, I will answer it anyway. I have met exactly one priest, who just a few years ago, came into a bar that I owned, and he came for his own purposes. First, one of his parishioners*, had decided to end it all, and had called him to confess and say goodbye, and they met for a drink. Second, this priest saw for himself, a group of potential customers, among my customers. He did ask permission to hawk a waterless car wash system ... we enjoyed the presentation. He made no sales. Did he abuse me? Nah!
As for your assertion that I am becoming more unstable with each post, let's see how that plays out, OK?
Well if you're not the same guy, then I don't need to see how it plays out, right?
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW: to correctly assess a poster, one should invest more than that first glance.
Point noted.
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>
*This parishioner didn't last long, but it was from an execution styled murder, over a drug deal, gone wrong, rather than suicide.
Well I don't know how it relates to the point, but good story anyway. I guess.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#181 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality? Choose your words carefully. Didn't you used to have a screen name of Quantum Bob? Now it's "Reason Personified"? Tell us all when we are going to see this solid reasoning from Reason Personified". Tell us all when you are planning to personify it.
My words were chosen carefully, but more importantly they are truth. Insects, contrary to the buybulls description, do have more than the four legs claimed. Are you a member of one of those Baptist churches where they pull the two extra (and god offending) legs?

As for "Quantum Bob", I don't think I have seen a poster with that screen name. Since registration with topix.com , I have posted as "Reason Personified", and before registration, I posted as "Human Observer".

If you were referring to "Bob of Quantum Faith", he and I are very different posters, he is much better educated than I, and quite often much nicer too. Even a casual observer should be able to easily see the many differences in our posting styles.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#182 May 27, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a legal concept as the powers of the state come in the form of laws.
But it's more of a moral concept as the same thing goes whether they are challenging the Government or not.
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
How does converting to Islam make him not want a transfer,
Well wouldn't he want to be around his new friends who converted him?
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
it doesn't as I explained in post 173 most religious people pick what they like, so if he doesn't want to be a terrorist he will just ignore the quotes from the quran that justifies terrorism.
The Quran is pretty specific about some things and often new converts are the most pious.
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know how you can do this, I've never been religious but yet thats how it goes, no matter how blood the holy book has the faithful ignore it.
How much do you know about Islam? Is it just like all of the other religions in your mind? Have you actually ever studied Islam and learned the Quran and learned Islamic concepts? Religion is not some sort of optional sort of philosophy for Muslims like you are used to seeing out of Christianity and Judaism. Muslims are far far more serious about it and it isn't just a religion or philosophy, it is a complete way of life that covers religion, politics and law and any pious Muslims will tell you that I'm am actually 100% correct about this because I have had many Muslims themselves explain this to me. This is the mistake that liberal westerners make. They lump Islam into other religions, and that is a very very big mistake, and Muslims will even tell you that as well.

Here's a question that Muslims never answer. Is it injustice when Allah's law does not rule a land? And the answer is yes. It HAS to be because it is Allah's law. How can it be justice if man's law rules instead of Allah's law? There is no give to Caesar what is his and give to God what is his in Islam.

Another one. Next time we see another violent act from a Muslim and Muslims race to say that Islam is a religion of peace, ask them what they mean by peace in the context of their statement and you will surprise them. They use peace in that statement to suggest non violence to the stupid liberal that will believe them, but they actually know that it means no such thing, they are fooling you to take the heat off of Muslims. Peace does not mean cooperation, and compromise with non Muslims. There are no such things as that in the Quran. And it does not mean non violence.

The Word Islam is translated into the word "peace". And by peace, it means the peace one is supposed to feel by submitting to the will of Allah. And often the words peace and submission are actually alternate translations of the word Islam. I was told this by a Muslim himself and when I researched it, he was absolutely correct.

And does Allah will cooperation, compromise and non violence towards non Muslims? Not really and you would see this if you ever read the Quran. They are not even supposed to befriend non Muslims and I can produce the verses to show you this. They are only allowed to ACT like they befriend them when they feel they are in a disadvantaged position, and this is an Islamic concept called "taqiyya".

But make no mistake, Allah's law must eventually rule everywhere. The only difference between a supposed "radical" Muslim, who I believe are actually following their scriptures, and a "moderate" Muslim is that the radical believes in fast and furious and the moderate believes in slow and steady with a big peaceful smile on their face. But make no mistake, the same end goal is always in mind. It HAS to be because their scriptures command this.

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