Gitmo Prison Guard Converts From Atheism To Islam After Seeing...

Apr 6, 2013 Full story: Mediaite.com 1,239

CNN has an amazing story out of Guantanamo Bay about an American atheist prison camp guard that converted to Islam after spending extensive time talking to with some of the English speaking prisoners there.

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#143 May 26, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, most of the hatred that I see is coming from you. You're the one who is all angry and hateful.
Your projection of your OWN seething hate for all non-believrs is showing again.

Because I refuse to bow under to your bronze-age hatecult?

You say I'm a "hater"... typical.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#144 May 26, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I said they might as well copy Europe's model. I don't see them complaining at all. They think it's rational.
WHY?

You would have to change MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF LOCAL, STATE LAWS to include the word "civil union" every place there is the word "marriage".

YOU DO NOT OWN THE WORD "MARRIAGE" YOU BIGOTED AZZ.

You never did.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#145 May 26, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Hey Bob I think I broke that one! Lol
Reason is like kryptonite to these rejects.
<quoted text>
Yeah... he's an azz. No mistake.
get over it

Mesa, AZ

#146 May 26, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Your projection of your OWN seething hate for all non-believrs is showing again.
Because I refuse to bow under to your bronze-age hatecult?
You say I'm a "hater"... typical.
You're the one name calling and getting mad instead of discussing. I'm not overly fond of christians either, but you aren't helping.

I will say that I would rather live in a christian country than a muslim country.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#147 May 27, 2013
get over it wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the one name calling and getting mad instead of discussing. I'm not overly fond of christians either, but you aren't helping.
I will say that I would rather live in a christian country than a muslim country.
What's there to discuss? You liars can't present any proof of god and attack atheists and scientists with outdated lies.

You're all shameful people with no morals who blame athiests when their own cult fails to describe the world accurately.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#148 May 27, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
What's there to discuss? You liars can't present any proof of god and attack atheists and scientists with outdated lies.
You're all shameful people with no morals who blame athiests when their own cult fails to describe the world accurately.
LAMO!
You cannot even give an answer to where humans come from.
Does your mommy know where you are?

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#149 May 27, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>LAMO!
You cannot even give an answer to where humans come from.
Does your mommy know where you are?
Lying about god does your cult no favours.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#150 May 27, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Your programmer example doesn't work because people on the past ( your software ) walked, ate and even wrestled with the programmer aka god.
The programmer can never be a part of the program? Anyway, this discussion was about proving that God doesn't exist. You never said anything about a specific biblical version of God. but even that isn't PROVABLE to be wrong, one can only see it is highly unlikely and therefore they do not believe it.
Givemeliberty wrote:
We know far more about the universe and how life works then the people who first spoke of and documented a god. Again your example is meaningless and honesty you just stole it off of how to prove an atheist wrong websites and videos.
Actually, I am a software developer and it was the first thing that came to my mind. I wasn't even aware of what you were talking about because I rarely even bother to engage in conversations about this.
Givemeliberty wrote:
Some so called mystic opinion means nothing, sorry.
You don't even understand anything they say nor have you ever bothered to read them, so your opinion means nothing either. Sorry.
Givemeliberty wrote:
What one thinks a god should or shouldn't be is irrelevant. But I guess you think that sounded good.
If God existed, then why doesn't he do xyz? Why doesn't he just show himself? It's a familiar argument. Like I said, if you want to say that God doesn't exist because God doesn't behave the way you think he or it should, then that's at least a fair reason. You've certainly considered the existence of God, and these are some of the reasons that people reject the notion.
Givemeliberty wrote:
So called Life essence has nothing to do with god existing or not. You cannot assign attributes and deeds to this so called god until you have at least demonstrated there is a god in the first place.
Another of the xyz stated above. If God existed, then surely God would be demonstrable in ways that I find acceptable or think God should be demonstrated as.
Givemeliberty wrote:
Your so called conceptualizing mind example doesn't work. Why? The fact is we have the concept of a god from ancient people.
Did you really understand my quote from Heisenberg? It's not beyond the conceptualizing mind?

Heisenberg again.
"“Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think.”
Givemeliberty wrote:
They wrote in depth about him, said he walked and ate and spoke to them even had all night wrestling matches with him. Sorry your pitiful example fails.
Okay stop stalling and whining.
Can you finally answer me how it is you could possibly know what every single man and woman throughout history and the future can do?
Ask Heisenberg. Ask any mystic. When I said all things are possible, I didn't mean that all things are possible to be understood by the conceptualizing mind. I understand your mindset completely. It's just regular, plain common sense. What's there to understand about that? It's easy. But it would appear that most of your knowledge is strictly within science. But even any good scientist will tell you that fact is merely a consistent, reliable replication of results or observations, but there really is no such thing as a true fact. Fact is only fact insofar as we are equipped to tell.

Again, your thinking appears to be extremely rigid, so this is going to go nowhere. Einstein didn't revolutionize things because he was such a great Mathematician or Physicist, he arrived at his conclusion by being able to think outside of the box, rather than have his mathematical information drown him.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#151 May 27, 2013
I read so more quotes from Heisenberg and the more i read, the more I become rather shocked at how much he was actually a scientific mystic. I really had no idea. i understand mystics very well, but I had no idea how well he understood them, without probably ever even reading them.

"“What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning.”

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”

“Quantum theory provides us with a striking illustration of the fact that we can fully understand a connection though we can only speak of it in images and parables.”

“The reality we can put into words is never reality itself.”

“In the history of science, ever since the famous trial of Galileo, it has repeatedly been claimed that scientific truth cannot be reconciled with the religious interpretation of the world. Although I an now convinced that scientific truth is unassailable in its own field, I have never found it possible to dismiss the content of religious thinking as simply part of an outmoded phase in the consciousness of mankind, a part we shall have to give up from now on, Thus in the course of my life I have repeatedly been compelled to ponder on the relationship of these two regions of though, for I have never been able to doubt the reality of that to which they point.”

“Revere those things beyond science which really matter and about which it is so difficult to speak.”

Lao Tzu
"those that know do not say, those that say do not know"

Anthony de Mello
“You see persons and things not as they are but as you are."

"Wisdom tends to grow in proportion to one's awareness of one's ignorance.”

"Every word, every image used for God is a distortion more than a description.”

"Thought can organize the world so well that you are no longer able to see it.”

Jiddhu Krishnamurti
"It seems to me that the real problem is the mind itself, and not the problem which the mind has created and tries to solve. If the mind is petty, small, narrow, limited, however great and complex the problem may be, the mind approaches that problem in terms of its own pettiness. If I have a little mind and I think of God, the God of my thinking will be a little God, though I may clothe him with grandeur, beauty, wisdom, and all the rest of it."

"The moment you teach a child the name of a bird, that child will never see that bird again"

I really learned something here. Heisenberg had an astounding understanding of the very core concepts of mystics. He really got it. But then again, he was a genius. Probably so much so, that he didn't think that he was.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#152 May 27, 2013
get over it wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the one name calling and getting mad instead of discussing. I'm not overly fond of christians either, but you aren't helping.
I will say that I would rather live in a christian country than a muslim country.
This is why I asked him if he was abused by a priest. Usually people that don't believe in Christianity, or even God for that matter, just laugh at it and brush it off. But this guy has a real mean spirited anger towards the issue. So I thought that priest abuse was a possibility that could cause this, as it does in actual cases of this.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#153 May 27, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>LAMO!
You cannot even give an answer to where humans come from.
Does your mommy know where you are?
I think this conversation is going to fly way over your head, and I'm pretty sure that you won't realize that. You will think you are doing quite well.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#154 May 27, 2013
Your opinion spam means nothing and it addresses nothing. Had Harry Potter been around back then he would have been talking about Voldermort at some point.

Bubble headed fairy mystic talk may entertain a stoner, but has no place in actual discussion or debate. It only makes you look like a braying jackass.
Seeker wrote:
I read so more quotes from Heisenberg
I really learned something here. Heisenberg had an astounding understanding of the very core concepts of mystics. He really got it. But then again, he was a genius. Probably so much so, that he didn't think that he was.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#155 May 27, 2013
Who else has noticed that he either doesn't understand the points or questions directed towards him or completely ignores them and just rambles on with his mystic spam? Often his statements have no coherent correlation with what was posted.

Ahem... Are you high? No seriously are you stoned out of your mind or drunk?

When you come down or sober up let's try this again. You claimed no human could ever prove or disprove a god exists. Yet again... I am not asking about mystics, or dead Germans and their opinion pieces, I am asking how you could possibly know what each and every person in the history of the world can and can't do?
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't even understand anything they say nor have you ever bothered to read them, so your opinion means nothing either. Sorry.

Givemeliberty wrote, "
What one thinks a god should or shouldn't be is irrelevant. But I guess you think that sounded good."

If God existed, then why doesn't he do xyz? Why doesn't he just show himself? It's a familiar argument. Like I said, if you want to say that God doesn't exist because God doesn't behave the way you think he or it should, then that's at least a fair reason. You've certainly considered the existence of God, and these are some of the reasons that people reject the notion.

Givemeliberty wrote, "
So called Life essence has nothing to do with god existing or not. You cannot assign attributes and deeds to this so called god until you have at least demonstrated there is a god in the first place."

Another of the xyz stated above. If God existed, then surely God would be demonstrable in ways that I find acceptable or think God should be demonstrated as.

Givemeliberty wrote, "
Your so called conceptualizing mind example doesn't work. Why? The fact is we have the concept of a god from ancient people."

Did you really understand my quote from Heisenberg? It's not beyond the conceptualizing mind?

Heisenberg again.
"“Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think.”

Givemeliberty wrote, "
They wrote in depth about him, said he walked and ate and spoke to them even had all night wrestling matches with him. Sorry your pitiful example fails.
Okay stop stalling and whining.
Can you finally answer me how it is you could possibly know what every single man and woman throughout history and the future can do?"

Ask Heisenberg. Ask any mystic. When I said all things are possible, I didn't mean that all things are possible to be understood by the conceptualizing mind. I understand your mindset completely. It's just regular, plain common sense. What's there to understand about that? It's easy. But it would appear that most of your knowledge is strictly within science. But even any good scientist will tell you that fact is merely a consistent, reliable replication of results or observations, but there really is no such thing as a true fact. Fact is only fact insofar as we are equipped to tell.

Again, your thinking appears to be extremely rigid, so this is going to go nowhere. Einstein didn't revolutionize things because he was such a great Mathematician or Physicist, he arrived at his conclusion by being able to think outside of the box, rather than have his mathematical information drown him.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

#156 May 27, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>LAMO!
You cannot even give an answer to where humans come from.
Does your mommy know where you are?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and show you are.

"God" may be an answer, but so is "quantum fluctuations".
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#157 May 27, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Who else has noticed that he either doesn't understand the points or questions directed towards him or completely ignores them and just rambles on with his mystic spam? Often his statements have no coherent correlation with what was posted.
The mystic point of view has very much relevance in any conversation about God and I clearly quoted you things from Heisenberg that display he sees these things too and you completely ignored them.
Givemeliberty wrote:
Ahem... Are you high? No seriously are you stoned out of your mind or drunk?
When you come down or sober up let's try this again. You claimed no human could ever prove or disprove a god exists. Yet again... I am not asking about mystics, or dead Germans and their opinion pieces, I am asking how you could possibly know what each and every person in the history of the world can and can't do?
<quoted text>
Is Heisenberg high also? Is it Highzenberg?

“Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think.”

What does stranger than we CAN think mean to you? To disprove God, one would have to have absolute knowledge. Again, while I said that anything is possible, I didn't mean that anything is possible for the conceptualizing mind to understand. And maybe I should contradict myself and say that some things ARE impossible, such as your ability to understand abstract thought.

Yes, Heisenberg is merely to be written off as a dead German. This is what I expect from you after your first statement about "admitting defeat". This isn't a conversation for you, this is just you trying to be right no matter what, and if that is your attitude, you won't understand a single thing said to you if you don't want to, and clearly you do not want to.

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”

Don't talk to me, talk to Heisenberg. I told you before, nothing in the initial conversation was about the "Biblical" version of God, it was about the idea of the existence of God itself. And the issue is beyond the conceptualizing mind and can only be definitively answered if one has absolute knowledge of everything there is to know in the universe. If you want to believe that people will some day have absolute knowledge of everything in the universe, then go ahead. That's your folly, not mine.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#158 May 27, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and show you are.
"God" may be an answer, but so is "quantum fluctuations".
Of course. The only rational position on this issue is agnosticism. Atheism, if it means that one is CERTAIN that there is no God, is just as absurd as a theist saying he is certain there IS a God. Only the fool says he KNOWS. I have my "beliefs", but I accurately call them exactly that, and I never am stupid enough to say that I can prove God exists. Only a fool would do so. If God does exist, it would have to be beyond concepts such as "proof" itself. Proof is a mental construct.

I remember one mystic saying. Trying to fit God into our concepts is like trying to fit an Elephant into the swimming trunks of a rat.

Now watch as someone says this is an absurd example because we all know that rats don't wear swimming trunks. You think I'm kidding? Some people actually think that way. You'd be surprised.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#159 May 27, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and show you are.
"God" may be an answer, but so is "quantum fluctuations".
Well, fluctuations from what or of what? I remember a guy who explained that something can come from nothing and he used an example of an empty ditch that attracted dirt to it. So the empty ditch was represented as nothingness, but what about the dirt that filled it? I can't remember the exact example he used but I remember that this guy was purposefully ignoring the last and final unsolvable question and merely rearranging the question.

If something appears out of thin air, how do we know it didn't come from a parallel universe that we don't know about? And where did the parallel universe come from? Suppose we have two parallel universes or many that keep feeding each other back and forth. This seems to be a solution offered by some, and then they proceed to say problem solved, completely ignoring the question of where the parallel universes come from. We are willing to trick ourselves so that we can breath a sigh of relief and say that we know, we finally know, because we don't like not knowing things. It bothers us. But it's always one piece of the puzzle that gets ignored so that we can create an answer for ourselves, and I'm convinced that it always will be ignored.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

#160 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course. The only rational position on this issue is agnosticism. Atheism, if it means that one is CERTAIN that there is no God, is just as absurd as a theist saying he is certain there IS a God. Only the fool says he KNOWS. I have my "beliefs", but I accurately call them exactly that, and I never am stupid enough to say that I can prove God exists. Only a fool would do so. If God does exist, it would have to be beyond concepts such as "proof" itself. Proof is a mental construct.
I remember one mystic saying. Trying to fit God into our concepts is like trying to fit an Elephant into the swimming trunks of a rat.
Now watch as someone says this is an absurd example because we all know that rats don't wear swimming trunks. You think I'm kidding? Some people actually think that way. You'd be surprised.
We could have lengthy discussion on what agnosticism and atheism mean, and they all also depend on the definition of "god". The existence of a "god", as defined by most religious groups, is in my opinion sufficiently debunked to call myself an atheist.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#161 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, so wait until he does like the Fort Hood guy, and then remove him.
You do know that most people who plan those things get arrested before they done what they were planing to do, but there are some who slip the net. The is only one way to stop people slip the net is witch hunts to assume one is guilty until proven innocent.
No one wants to be like that so if the guard does start killing people, we have to say nothing could be done the alternative is to risky and evil.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#162 May 27, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, so wait until he does like the Fort Hood guy, and then remove him.
Or we can go on witch hunts and say guilty until proven innocent.
We all know how that goes.

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