Gitmo Prison Guard Converts From Athe...

Gitmo Prison Guard Converts From Atheism To Islam After Seeing...

There are 1239 comments on the Mediaite.com story from Apr 6, 2013, titled Gitmo Prison Guard Converts From Atheism To Islam After Seeing.... In it, Mediaite.com reports that:

CNN has an amazing story out of Guantanamo Bay about an American atheist prison camp guard that converted to Islam after spending extensive time talking to with some of the English speaking prisoners there.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Mediaite.com.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#976 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
How many people die each day?
You keep **skipping** what, to me, is a very important distinction:

Premature.

If a death is needless or premature, due to some disease, accident or other calamity?

In that, if said calamity had not occurred, the life in question would have continued onward?

Then I say that death is evil.

Here, you are being guilty of generalizing when I took pains to be specific.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#977 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
I would agree with that. Look at the law of natural life itself?
Is there such a thing? I think not-- life on earth depends on the law of gravity, the law of entropy/energy among other things.

But I have no idea what you mean by "law of natural life".

Methinks you are attempting to insert supernatural woo here.
Seeker wrote:
Is it evil?
Since I do not have a clue what you mean by this fictional idea of "law of natural life" I cannot answer.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#978 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
So why should it be looked upon as evil the moment someone attaches the word God to it?
Because the alleged "word of god" is self-evidently evil?

In that it advocates people to behave in very evil ways towards their fellow humans-- among the evils, it teaches that all humans are scum, and deserving of infinite torture or some such.

That?

That theological idea alone? Taints the entire volume sufficiently such that anything it's associated with is automatically evil.

The world has enough problems, without teaching everyone that all humans are scum--worthy of infinite torture.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#979 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Is God supposed to think like we do?
Of course! Since all gods, to date, exist entirely within our collective imaginations?

Then it is natural that such gods think as humans do.

Reading the bible this becomes quite apparent: the bible-god thinks and acts exactly like a spoiled brat-king, who is willing to kill for the slightest of things, and is constantly demanding of ego-stroking from his slaves (followers).

Even the NT gods are bad about the ego-thing. Jesus demands constant ego-soothing, or he tosses your azz into infinite torture just out of spite.

So, yeah-- gods pretty much act like the **worst** of humanity.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#980 Jun 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I consider him a madman and a True Believer™ The two quite often go hand-in-glove.
It takes **faith** to permit real, deeply lasting and everyone-agrees-is evil.
Such as what the Nazis did during WW2. Hitler wasn't alone-- he had the willing help of thousands of True Believers™m, the majority of whom were either christian or catholic ...
Well if you asked them where Jesus said to do any of those things, they would fall silent.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
... throughout most of history, scratch a tyrant, and you'll find **religion** there-- backing the tyrant's power-play.
Sure, people take a good thing and use it for their own personal desires. Look at the internet itself. Good idea, but it will always get infected by bad people. So now you have viruses.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what **faith** does for you-- it blinds you to what is really going on...
Greed and desire do that, and religion is used to accomplish that. But I see no problem in the words of Jesus or even Buddha. It's not their fault.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That, and a culture of **faith** which teaches everyone to blindly follow "god given" authority, without question.
Well that's the institutions that used a very powerful concept for their own means. That's what faulty humans do, and then they have the nerve to blame God when it doesn't work out right for them.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Especially christianity-- it is very guilty of teaching this sort of blindly follower attitude.
The question is, following who or what? The real meanings of the scriptures, or what power hungry people tell you that they mean?
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I would define pure evil as deliberately lying to gain more power over the people you lied to, which in turn enables mass destruction, death of thousands, just to achieve your power-goals.
Well, don't Atheists who don't believe in God or any such thing as evil do the same thing? It's not called evil, it's called fear, which leads to anger and greed. Look at Stalin.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Such as what Bush did, with regards to the fictional "weapons of mass distraction" (oops-- was that a Freudian slip?)
That is a Political discussion.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#981 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Ultimately, we are all bad, because everything that we do is in our own self interest, even if we pretend that it is not while we are doing something good. Either you believe you are buying a ticket to heaven, as the Theists believe, or you are living up to some sort of ideal that you have created for yourself, for whatever reason, so that you think that you are good or fair, and can pat yourself on the back for your actions. It's all the same thing, just different ideas of self reward. One can't even scratch their nose unless they thought that ultimately it would benefit them. So we are all inherently selfish, and then we demand that God do xyz to stop what we perceive as evil, when we ourselves are all ultimately nothing but selfish. And our selfishness and greed and fear creates all of the evil that we see, and then we blame God for it, and then posit that God does not exist because he doesn't stop the selfishness, fear and greed that we do by our own free will.
Nothing in the above word-salad, excuses the FAILURE of a REAL god to act, when it comes to god-avoidable calamity.

Nothing.

It does not excuse this failure to act.

AT A BARE MINIMUM? A **caring** deity could WARN people with unambiguous PROOF that calamity is about to happen-- letting those who will, get away.

If **I** were god?

That is what **I* would do, without hesitation.

My argument is that young humans haven't had sufficient life, yet, to really become who they are to become.

This?

This makes me MORE moral than ANY gods-- EVER.

For I would **stop** the would-be rapist before he acts, instead of offering dubious "comfort" to the victim for afters...

And I don't even have to usurp the would-be rapist's free will-- a god-inspired word of warning to the potential victim, at just the right moment, would be more than sufficient.

God, remember? The discovery of the exactly correct moment, and exactly what to say, would be ... automatic to ...

... a GOD.

----------

No.

The existence of god-preventable EVIL in the world?

Proves beyond a shadow of a doubt-- there are no CARING gods anywhere.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#982 Jun 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Bullshit. You have failed to show the universe is created or requires a cause.
Science has shown, repeatedly, that the universe is uncaused-- and is uncreated.
I think that their explanations are quite faulty and they fail to ask some important questions or they end the logic chain prematurely. If you want to discuss that, it can be a topic in itself and you can start one and I will join in, and you can provide all of the things that science says and I can comment on that.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#983 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if you asked them where Jesus said to do any of those things, they would fall silent.
Really? I have found that not to be the case--at all.

The witch burning? The persecution of the gypsies/jews? The persecution of southern blacks in the US?

All "justified" by suitable bible-verses.

Silent? No...not even by a little bit.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#984 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Sure, people take a good thing and use it for their own personal desires. Look at the internet itself. Good idea, but it will always get infected by bad people. So now you have viruses.
So.

Malicious computer viruses are now synonymous with religion?

I **love** it!

Religion is the computer-virus of the real world's culture and politics.

Brilliant!

I'm so going to re-use this-- I'll be sure to credit you for it, too.

:D
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#985 Jun 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
I said:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
And you? You are just making up EXCUSES as to why your fictional god refuses to STOP PLAGUES.
I DID NOT ASK FOR INFINITE LIFE.
All I asked for? Was the stopping of PREMATURE DEATH-- the ending of a mass plague.
What is the acceptable life span?
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Something a GOOD god could do easily-- all those innocent babies who get to LIVE A LIFE, instead of dying without one.
And yet God is bad because life is bad, and yet you want those babies to have the chance to live in a bad world.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#986 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Greed and desire do that, and religion is used to accomplish that. But I see no problem in the words of Jesus or even Buddha. It's not their fault.
Few people follow either collection of sayings, though.

Very, very few.

Most will twist either one into "justification" of what they were about to do anyhow.

The very fact that the bible exists at all, which permits such a powerful "justification" for doing evil?

Is to me, proof of no **caring** gods-- anywhere.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#987 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Well that's the institutions that used a very powerful concept for their own means. That's what faulty humans do, and then they have the nerve to blame God when it doesn't work out right for them.
I think they are quite justified for blaming their god.

After all-- their god **allowed** the bible they use, to exist.

If no holy books proclaiming "the truth" existed at all?

People would find it quite difficult to gather into ugly mobs of violent intent to "punish the wicked"

So, yeah-- blaming their imaginary gods is **very** justifiable.

After all--

-- this "god" never --**ever** lifts a finger to STOP this.

Does it?

A do-nothing god is unworthy of the name.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#988 Jun 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there such a thing? I think not-- life on earth depends on the law of gravity, the law of entropy/energy among other things.
That's what I meant by law of natural life. You can call it something else, but it's the same thing.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
But I have no idea what you mean by "law of natural life".
Methinks you are attempting to insert supernatural woo here.
Not at all. The law of nature. Gravity, energy/entropy, death, life, birth etc... Maybe I should say the law of the universe.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#989 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
The question is, following who or what? The real meanings of the scriptures, or what power hungry people tell you that they mean?
Both. Always both-- the bible teaches without evocation-- people to be submissive to authority.

If you raise a child with that attitude? You get quite complaint sheeple who blindly do whatever the powers-that-be tell them to.

That is patently clear, regardless of which bible-apologizer you use.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#990 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Well, don't Atheists who don't believe in God or any such thing as evil do the same thing? It's not called evil, it's called fear, which leads to anger and greed. Look at Stalin.
I don't follow you here.

As for Stalin? He was a True Believer™ as far as history shows-- he was raised to become a priest/preacher.

As far as I can find out? He never recanted any of that.

So he's hardly an "atheist"-- I've never read where he did things because of NO BELIEF IN GOD.(atheism)

He did do many things that were selfishly evil, of course.

What else? He was in power-- and power corrupts.

Without a secular document to curb his power? Like we have in the USA?

He gathered power without much limits-- helped along by belief and the sheeple that belief creates in humans.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#991 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the acceptable life span?
However long it is, without accident or calamity interfering.

(You ask a very silly question, you get an equally silly and obvious response)

(GIGO)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#992 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
And yet God is bad because life is bad, and yet you want those babies to have the chance to live in a bad world.
No- god is bad for FAILING TO ACT.

Period.

Your god is nothing short of a dead-beat dad; an absentee slumlord.

A DO-NOTHING is unworthy of the name "god"

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#993 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
And yet God is bad because life is bad, and yet you want those babies to have the chance to live in a bad world.
Finally?

WHO SAYS THE WORLD IS BAD?

You?

Pardon me, if I don't take YOUR opinion on it..

... after all-- YOU believe.

So it's likely YOU think everyone is just SCUM anyhow.

That **is** what faith-in-god teaches humanity: that all people are just scum beneath the feet of god....
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#994 Jun 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the alleged "word of god" is self-evidently evil?
In that it advocates people to behave in very evil ways towards their fellow humans-- among the evils, it teaches that all humans are scum, and deserving of infinite torture or some such.
Well Jesus and Buddha never said such things.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That?
That theological idea alone? Taints the entire volume sufficiently such that anything it's associated with is automatically evil.
The world has enough problems, without teaching everyone that all humans are scum--worthy of infinite torture.
Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said,‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

It's not Jesus' fault that Christians don't listen to him.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#995 Jun 25, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I meant by law of natural life. You can call it something else, but it's the same thing.
<quoted text>
Not at all. The law of nature. Gravity, energy/entropy, death, life, birth etc... Maybe I should say the law of the universe.
Use plural.... the **laws** of the universe.

Or better, the rules by which the universe operates.

Those rules are what Einstein called "god" in a bit of fanciful poetry.

And it appears that they are all... quite chaotic, at the bottom levels of reality.

Not so much rules, as they are stern suggestions....

... Quantum Mechanics, again. Anyone who claims to understand it, is probably lying-- or so the experts in that subject tell me.

I do not claim to understand it, apart from very superficially. The maths involved are way-way above my pay grade.

But, I have read quite a number of laymen's papers on the subject, and within my limited maths, I get it a little... and it's weird, too.

But not so much LAWS. Laws implies "cannot be broken".

With QM? There do not appear to be any rules that cannot be at least bent...

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