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Mr Smartypants

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#1
Nov 2, 2011
 

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Consider this...

Jehovah is presumably omniscient, so he knew at the beginning of time that Adam and Eve would fall prey to temptation, yet he put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden anyways. Also, if he knew ahead of time that they would eat the apple of knowledge, then how could Adam and Eve even have free will in the first place?

(Side note: the apple is representative of knowledge, and 'Lucifer' is Latin for 'bearer of light'. Why is knowledge such a horrible sin in Judeo-Christianity? Is it because smart people realize that the Mighty Oz is nothing more than an image conjured up by the clergyman hiding behind the curtain?)

So, Jehovah banishes Adam and Eve from the Garden forever. Fair enough. However, he basically poisons every human after Adam and Eve with Original sin so that they're born with one foot in hell the moment they're born. It wouldn't be so bad if every human born had signed a consent form, but nobody ever does--they have existence forced upon them.(On top of that, isn't sin something YOU do of YOUR OWN volition? The idea that Original Sin can be transferred like a disease to non-consenting people seems like a oxymoron.)

On top of that, anybody who's born with just Original Sin is automatically doomed to eternal torment in Hell, in spite of not asking to be born. Even if your particular denomination of Christianity doesn't support Original Sin, that doesn't mitigate things much anyways. He supposedly gave humans free will--not enough free will to cheat death or even levitate, just enough free will to damn yourself to eternal torment.

Jehovah has no sense of proportionality; if the only sin you ever do is steal a piece of penny-candy as a child, you go to the same Hell as Hitler and Stalin and suffer the same torment. On top of that, Jehovah gives no credit for good behavior; if you make up for stealing that piece of penny-candy by spending the rest of your life building hospitals for lepers and doing other good deeds, Jehovah ignores that and focuses only on the one bad thing you did.

And how does he mitigate the Hell which he created in the first place? By some absurd legal fiction in which he sends his kid, who is also himself, to Earth to die horribly on a cross. Talk about the ultimate whipping boy. That, like Original Sin, is based on the absurd idea that sin can be transferred like a disease or a legal contract. To make things worse, he allows billions of people to live their lives totally ignorant of Jesus so that they're doomed from the moment they're born. Worst of all, Jehovah knew at the beginning of time which souls would ultimately be doomed to Hell, yet he allowed them to be born in the first place.

Finally, Jehovah never bothered to clarify which of the thousands of denominations of Christianity was the right one, dooming further billions to Hell. Not only that, he sat by and did nothing while Christians were torturing millions to death for heresy and witchcraft, launching bloody Crusades, and committing mass murder against indigenous people.

I really wonder how any decent, ethical person could worship such a cosmic monster. If anybody ever deserves to suffer eternal torment, it's the cosmic bastard Jehovah himself. It's a good thing I'm an atheist/Freethinker; if I really thought that such an evil monster existed, I'd probably become a Satanist.

Intelligent, well-thought-out responses are invited, even from True Believers. If your only reply is to threaten damnation, I hereby condemn you to being an idiot...
Mr Smartypants

United States

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#2
Nov 2, 2011
 
What? I'd think there were a lot more anti-theists and maltheists who would find this thread very interesting...
nina

Surrey, Canada

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#3
Nov 2, 2011
 
so good that I want to steal it for my blog.

ooops, shouldn't have said that
nina

Surrey, Canada

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#4
Nov 2, 2011
 

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#5
Nov 2, 2011
 
The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree? Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to be as smart as God. We can't have that."

-- Frank Zappa

The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

-- Frank Zappa, interview, Playboy, May 2, 1993

So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb fuck and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity.

-- Frank Zappa
Mr Smartypants

Mayer, MN

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#6
Nov 2, 2011
 
nina wrote:
so good that I want to steal it for my blog.
ooops, shouldn't have said that
Please steal away :)
Mr Smartypants

Mayer, MN

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#7
Nov 2, 2011
 
nina wrote:
http://ntrygg.wordpress.com/20 11/11/02/what-mr-smartypants-s aid/
Oh, I see you already did that--cool!
Mr Smartypants

Mayer, MN

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#8
Nov 2, 2011
 
scaritual--Those are great Frank Zappa quotes! Pretty much explains the whole anti-intellectual bias of Christianity...
Amused

Brighton, MA

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#9
Nov 4, 2011
 

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Judged by today's standards, yes. Please consider, though, that Jehovah was invented over 4,000 years ago by a war-like nomadic tribe. He is a reflection of the people who invented him. They were a vicious people whose bloody conquests included extermination of all traces of the people whose cities they conquered. That extermination was based on an obsession with tribal identity, and maintaining that identity against the threat of intermarriage, They needed a god who reinforced their tribal identity, so they invented a god who made them his chosen people. This both strengthened tribal identity and in-group loyalty and also justified their genocide. Of course, only a god with sociopathic qualities would command massacre after massacre, so that's the god they invented for themselves.

Actual rulers of the time were generally brutal, so the template from which they drew their god was a design for a nasty, brutal, violent god who, like the rulers he was copied from, ruled through force and intimidation. Jehovah is really just a bronze age tribal leader writ large.
Mr Smartypants

United States

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#10
Nov 4, 2011
 

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Amused wrote:
Jehovah is really just a bronze age tribal leader writ large.
That's why we need to have a more modern god like J.R. "Bob" Dobbs or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Praise "Bob"!

“ALONUSAHI ANANAEL”

Since: Oct 09

ST George UT

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#11
Nov 9, 2011
 
Jehovah is a personality, a 'dark side' if you will, but just one of thousands of 'gods' perceived.

A really interesting thing about these Abrahamic religions is you have a totally different perception of what is 'evil'.

Trying to 'get into' or 'figure it out' helps in seeing the universe from many angles.

(This is not to convince, these are my thoughts, I don't focus on the Abrahamic systems of much as I used to, there are far more advanced systems.)

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

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#12
Nov 10, 2011
 

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Perhaps the most advanced system is no system at all. Letting go of the constraints imposed by religion frees the mind to consider possibilities beyond the limited imaginations of more the primitive minds of the ancients.

“ALONUSAHI ANANAEL”

Since: Oct 09

ST George UT

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#13
Nov 10, 2011
 
NightSerf wrote:
Perhaps the most advanced system is no system at all. Letting go of the constraints imposed by religion frees the mind to consider possibilities beyond the limited imaginations of more the primitive minds of the ancients.
Definitely using 'no system' opens up many doors, and much can be learned because the boundaries of religion do not exist.

Once one reaches the point where they realise they really are 'atheist' things are simplified and there is a opportunity to greatly improve.

-----

As a Theologist, religion and belief systems have become an obsession for me.

There are so many interesting things to be found. The big problem is people clinging to a said system and taking it way to seriously.

I often take on several at a time. When learning new religions I like to also get into the minds of their 'fundies' to try and see whats going on 'in there'.

Another fun part of the studies is becoming the fundy! You never know what could happen when others think you are a 'fundie' of a rival belief system!- have had several close calls -
Hefaisto

Casimiro De Abreu, Brazil

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#15
Jun 29, 2013
 

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I do not know how people can worship a god that every day causes children to be born in the midst of famine, wars, slavery, disease and every kind of brutality inadmissible.
Does the fault is only of the bad men? One can not deny the portion of guilt one that created the world so, that created natural instincts that collaterally are a major cause of maudade, despite all the suffering that exists in this world still throw defenseless children and animals in this world and nothing makes to save them from the evils of sadistic men and occurrences of disasters.
Will this false claim "free will" is a justified? Then would justify if a guy deliver a bomb to a terrorist suspect even knowing that he would use to kill dozens of people? It in this context that obvil this such guy have share of blame for the terrorist act, as Jehovah has its share of blame for the woes in this world. What about "free will" of those who are born blind or without members?
Interesting is the fact that while some people are "benefited" by this god, others are completely abandoned in the midst of all kinds of suffering, even people and families loyal to this god. But these "benefits" are just to deceive, like many emperors and dictators tyrants in history have also promoted supposed benefits for aggrandizement your political images. In the same way, many think "how can the God who created all the beauty that exists in nature is an evil god?" But someone be able to create beauty does not mean that someone is good and just, after all, Adolf Hitler also painted beautiful art pictures.

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