How Not To Interpret That Religion and IQ Study

Aug 16, 2013 Full story: National Review Online 22

The authors conducted a "meta-analysis" to show that there is a moderately negative correlation between religious belief and IQ among individuals.

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“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#1 Aug 17, 2013
There is just one problem with this article and that is the idea that IQ can never be used.
"Simply put, we can’t solve philosophical disputes by appealing to the higher average IQ of one side or the other." That is right but it is also wrong as he also says "The study itself is careful and dispassionate, but the reaction from the atheist corner of the Internet has been predictable: If smarter people tend to be atheists, then atheism is probably “correct,” right?" It's just that last sentence that is dismissive of IQ that makes this article wrong to quote it again.
"As long as smarter people are more likely to even question traditions such as religious belief, then full-blown rejection of religion will almost inevitably be correlated with higher IQ, even if a majority of smart people still affirm religious belief." No it's not just a matter of being able to question it's also a matter of being able to get good answers.

There is also this point here. "Let’s say that the bottom half of the IQ distribution never questions the religion of their upbringing, while the top half is skeptical. Now, just among that skeptical top half, let’s say that 80 percent end up affirming their faith and remain religious, while the rest reject faith and become atheists.

Religion would seem to be the clear choice of smart people in this hypothetical example, but there would still be a positive correlation between IQ and atheism. The correlation exists not because smart people have necessarily rejected religion, but because religion is the default position for most of our society.

This same principle works in places where the default and iconoclastic beliefs are reversed. Japan, for example, has no tradition of monotheistic religion, but the few Japanese Christians tend to be much more educated than non-Christians in Japan."
All right then what if we studied those who have moved from their original position aka our default position. Lets take Christians who were atheists "from birth" and atheists who were Christian "from birth" and see what we get. I bet that atheists who were Christian will get higher due to the fact that, that's way the religious trend in the world is going, in favour of de-conversion. If I'm right then there is something in saying higher IQ equals more likely to be right, hopefully someone will do this soon at lest three times.
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#2 Aug 19, 2013
I.Q. is a matter of being educated, but schooling doesn't produce intelligence, and being a Professor or a Scholar doesn't mean you have common sense and knowledge how to be godly.

Being religious means you go to Church and you believe and obey the Church rules and doctrines of your religion.
Going to Church does not make you a Christian, and neither does knowing what the Bible teaches.

Reading your Bible and the life of Jesus and the faithful examples of the followers of Jesus who lived in pure worship to the God of the Bible, Almighty God Jehovah will help you to find the truth of success and happiness. Isaiah 48:17,18
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#3 Aug 19, 2013
Atheists are more intelligent than religious people. That is something which is we all suspect. Religion, esp. the fundie kind is primitive, and hence devout followers are likely to have a lower than average IQ.
Amused

Brookfield, MA

#4 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
I.Q. is a matter of being educated,...
No, actually. I.Q. measures reasoning and language abilities. It does not measure the fund of knowledge a person possesses. I.Q. measures far more innate abilities than it measures information acquired through education.
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#5 Aug 19, 2013
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
No, actually. I.Q. measures reasoning and language abilities. It does not measure the fund of knowledge a person possesses. I.Q. measures far more innate abilities than it measures information acquired through education.
You are a perfect example of the person who believes he is intelligent by
what he knows, rather than what he understands from the knowledge he has.
I.Q. only measures the amount of what you know, not what you understand.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#6 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a perfect example of the person who believes he is intelligent by
what he knows, rather than what he understands from the knowledge he has.
I.Q. only measures the amount of what you know, not what you understand.
Look at the statement "You are a perfect example of the person who believes he is intelligent by what he knows" and "I.Q. only measures the amount of what you know" and try to test your IQ (not I.Q.) and understand how these statements make you look stupid.

You insult someone by saying that he thinks he has a high IQ by virtue of knowing a lot, and then you say that IQ is about knowing a lot!!

This is why I waited before I started to respond to your brand of B.S.(that is spelt with two dot's unlike IQ take note).

P.S.(another thing that's actually spelt with dot's) sorry Amused for butting in with out a invite TCW this time was just to stupid to not but in.

P.SS. I'm not apologising to you TCW, you call gay people queers why should apologise.
Amused

Brookfield, MA

#7 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a perfect example of the person who believes he is intelligent by
what he knows, rather than what he understands from the knowledge he has.
I.Q. only measures the amount of what you know, not what you understand.
No. Actually IQ tests measure your ability to think, rather than your ability to vomit forth facts like when was the Magna Carta was signed. Hence the reliance on analogies and similar tests of reasoning, and tests of matematical reasoning skills versus knowledge of arithmetic facts.

You really should check your facts before you post nonsense like this. The vehemence with which you defend statements which are factually incorrect tend to cause us to doubt your ideas with regard to religion, which you advance with equal vehemence. It is likely you put no more effort into researching the factual basis for your religious claims than you put into finding out how IQ tests work. Your methodology for researching IQ tests seems to consist of making something up, then thinking that repeating the made up stuff makes it true. Is this not how you came up with your religious beliefs?
Amused

Brookfield, MA

#8 Aug 19, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
L...
P.S.(another thing that's actually spelt with dot's) sorry Amused for butting in with out a invite TCW this time was just to stupid to not but in.
P.SS. I'm not apologising to you TCW, you call gay people queers why should apologise.
It is a public forum. Anyone is welcome to join. Comments like those of TCW invite comment. My comments are less interesting than his, as I confine myself to factual material, while the facts are not a constraint on his commentary which boldly go wherever flights of fantasy have gone before.
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#9 Aug 19, 2013
No one said, your I.Q. shows how smart you are...

That is why Jehovah's witnesses do not try to show people how much we know about the Bible, you only have to talk to someone who is educated and you will see how much you don't know at all. Got it?
Amused

Brookfield, MA

#10 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
No one said, your I.Q. shows how smart you are...
...
If yours is a positive integer, it does not reflect how smart you are.
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#11 Aug 19, 2013
I do not profess to be intelligent, I am educated and thoroughly educated in the Bible, but I am not able to discuss things that call for a thorough education to be understood and taught as mechanics, medicine or math.

If you know an apple tree mechanic or a medic you know what I'm talking about.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#12 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
No one said, your I.Q. shows how smart you are...
That is why Jehovah's witnesses do not try to show people how much we know about the Bible, you only have to talk to someone who is educated and you will see how much you don't know at all. Got it?
Yes there are people who say that IQ (not I.Q.) shows how smart you are, because to be smart is to be intelligent and IQ test's get a reading on how intelligent you are. In order to do this you need to know what it means to be intelligent this is controversial as shown here ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Def... ), but there are many things that are in almost every theory; problem solving skills, to use problem solving skills on abstract ideas and learning quickly from experience.

Now all the people arguing about what is intelligence have used years of experience research to make a definition, but yet not one on the list says "IQ measures what you know" only you do, now stop giving this "measure of knowledge" S*** or find a psychologist with a good paper how says the same thing as you.

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#13 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
I do not profess to be intelligent, I am educated and thoroughly educated in the Bible, but I am not able to discuss things that call for a thorough education to be understood and taught as mechanics, medicine or math.
If you know an apple tree mechanic or a medic you know what I'm talking about.
I doubt you are thoroughly educated on the bible, the bible is what help't me become an atheist. If we where to set up our own Topic on Topix or had a Skype call posted on youtube you wouldn't win.

Seeing how when I first "met" you, you almost never replied to my retorts I have to wonder if you have the guts...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#14 Aug 19, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
I do not profess to be intelligent,[/quote]
And you are proud of this????

[QUOTE] I am educated and thoroughly educated in the Bible,
Well, there is your problem. You should read a bit more variety and learn how the universe really works rather than take the word of some superstitious people 2000 years ago.
but I am not able to discuss things that call for a thorough education to be understood and taught as mechanics, medicine or math.
If you know an apple tree mechanic or a medic you know what I'm talking about.
Perhaps if you set some goals for yourself that include learning something worthwhile, you would be able to discuss things intelligently.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#15 Aug 19, 2013
There are probably more intelligent christians compared to intelligent atheists just because there are more christians. But when you leave reason and logic outside the door and bring magic in........

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#16 Aug 21, 2013
Oh TWC how you surprise me. When I bought up a debate you seem to have ran away, oh what a unforeseen set of events...
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#17 Aug 21, 2013
You most likely turned to Atheism because you couldn't understand the Bible, or couldn't accept the hypocrisy in the Church, most people stay with religion, because it makes them feel righteous with credentials.

Jesus Christ as King in heaven, is gathering his subjects today, and that is the person who can put faith in the Bible, even tho he can't understand it, who will believe in the Creator and designer of all life, even tho he doesn't know him either, Almighty God Jehovah, the God of the Bible.
Amused

Brookfield, MA

#18 Aug 21, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
You most likely turned to Atheism because you couldn't understand the Bible, or couldn't accept the hypocrisy in the Church, most people stay with religion, because it makes them feel righteous with credentials.
Jesus Christ as King in heaven, is gathering his subjects today, and that is the person who can put faith in the Bible, even tho he can't understand it, who will believe in the Creator and designer of all life, even tho he doesn't know him either, Almighty God Jehovah, the God of the Bible.
"If you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer superstition" Stevie Wonder - Superstition

“you must not give faith”

Since: Jul 12

Nottingham, UK

#19 Aug 22, 2013
True Christian witness wrote:
You most likely turned to Atheism because you couldn't understand the Bible, or couldn't accept the hypocrisy in the Church, most people stay with religion, because it makes them feel righteous with credentials.
Jesus Christ as King in heaven, is gathering his subjects today, and that is the person who can put faith in the Bible, even tho he can't understand it, who will believe in the Creator and designer of all life, even tho he doesn't know him either, Almighty God Jehovah, the God of the Bible.
Yes I do understand the Bible, lets start with the fact there are two nativity stories one in Matthew and the other in Luke.
Matthew states the immaculate conception was only known to Joseph, Luke states Gabriel told Mary. Matthew states wise men see Jesus with no mention of shepherds, Luke states Shepards see Jesus with no mention to wisemen. Matthew states king Herod goes on a killing spree, Luke does not. As a result of previous contradiction only Matthew has the family escaped to Egypt, Luke has then calmly going back to Nazareth.now to
And that is just start and already we have apparently one of the most important events in history have mutually exclusive accounts.
Are you still bound by the laws of the old Testament Matthew 5:17-19
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
But yet in John 8:3-8 Jesus stops the stoning of an adulterer despite Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Finally God's sins of a father argument, Samuel 1:2-3.
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”
Okay maybe the all men of Amalek guilty along with all the women but children! Children don't have a say in what their people do so when one ethnic group tries to annihilate another ethnic group, you will kill children for revenge but you do, you do kill children because God's word doesn't change and God's ethics are higher than man's ethics. Thus at the end of the Second World War the Allies in collaboration with the Jews who survived the Holocaust, should have gathered up all of farm animals and civilians of Germany and put in a gas chamber. There is no other way to say this if you can't see how F*** up this is you have to be F*** up yourself.
p.s. I am surprised TCW that you actually tried responding to me too bad you still haven't found the reply button.
True Christian witness

Bartlesville, OK

#20 Aug 22, 2013
Benjamin Frankly wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I do understand the Bible, lets start with the fact there are two nativity stories one in Matthew and the other in Luke.
Matthew states the immaculate conception was only known to Joseph, Luke states Gabriel told Mary. Matthew states wise men see Jesus with no mention of shepherds, Luke states Shepards see Jesus with no mention to wisemen. Matthew states king Herod goes on a killing spree, Luke does not. As a result of previous contradiction only Matthew has the family escaped to Egypt, Luke has then calmly going back to Nazareth.now to
And that is just start and already we have apparently one of the most important events in history have mutually exclusive accounts.
Are you still bound by the laws of the old Testament Matthew 5:17-19
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
But yet in John 8:3-8 Jesus stops the stoning of an adulterer despite Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Finally God's sins of a father argument, Samuel 1:2-3.
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”
Okay maybe the all men of Amalek guilty along with all the women but children! Children don't have a say in what their people do so when one ethnic group tries to annihilate another ethnic group, you will kill children for revenge but you do, you do kill children because God's word doesn't change and God's ethics are higher than man's ethics. Thus at the end of the Second World War the Allies in collaboration with the Jews who survived the Holocaust, should have gathered up all of farm animals and civilians of Germany and put in a gas chamber. There is no other way to say this if you can't see how F*** up this is you have to be F*** up yourself.
p.s. I am surprised TCW that you actually tried responding to me too bad you still haven't found the reply button.
Being a wind bag with a foul mouth, you are still just a wind bag.

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