Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 10

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#203956
Jan 17, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, geez.... Biblical speech opposing homosexuality is a "hate crime"?!?
What's Canada thinking?!
What are their free speech laws? They can't be the same as in the US.
<quoted text>
According to the Bible, homosexuality is wrong, but so is any extra-marital sex.
Why do some people focus so much on gays? I don't know. Maybe because homosexuality is some kind of "headline news" every single day...
I don't agree with putting it out on flyers or anything like that. That's just mean and stupid.
You're not doing very well on your learning curve.

You continue to spew out homophobic views.

Please don't reply to this post--use the time for personal improvement instead, you're in dire need of it.

Since: Sep 10

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#203957
Jan 17, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you talking about?
<quoted text>
Oh?
"the Westboro Baptist Church just as surely represents Christianity to people like me." -IANS
The WBC spews out the same anti-homosexual views that you just vomited!

The precise wording may be different, but I'm hearing the same message: Homosexuality is an abomination.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

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#203958
Jan 17, 2014
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad that you've FINALLY admitted that you think the WBC represents Christianity to you. That only took like a year to drag out of you...
Can you not see the inherent bigotry that will come from that stereotype? You've picked one of the most vile Christian churches out there and used it to label all of Christianity.
.. bigotry is expressed in various ways, sometimes subtle, other times blatant. But, the message is always the same: my god disapproves of you ..
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>That's why I try to explain to you that Christianity is divorced from "God hates fags" but you refuse to listen.
.. how do I get through to you? There is no politically correct way to convey intent. Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express your disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused ..

.. if you dislike gays, I have no problem with that just don't hide behind God or a book to express your disdain, be open about it, suits you better ..

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#203959
Jan 17, 2014
 
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. bigotry is expressed in various ways, sometimes subtle, other times blatant. But, the message is always the same: my god disapproves of you ..
<quoted text>
.. how do I get through to you? There is no politically correct way to convey intent. Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express your disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused ..
.. if you dislike gays, I have no problem with that just don't hide behind God or a book to express your disdain, be open about it, suits you better ..
Hello.

I'm from the Greater WWW Morality Police Certification Board.

Your flashing blue lights have come to our attention.

Could you please show us your badge and certification?

Since: Jul 12

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#203960
Jan 17, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks.
It was evidence based, though, not magic. You mentioned that your father was 12 in 1962. The rest was easy.
<quoted text>
Your link suggests that that is the cost now - without aid.
Mrs. Aint was an undergrad in the anthropology department at UCR in the early 90's. I don't remember what we paid, but it wasn't a lot.
And California has an excellent system of junior colleges that were nearly free when I went. I was a student at Riverside City College from the summer of 1975 to the summer of 1976 following my military discharge and while applying to universities. It's where I studied electronics and music theory, and played in the stage band before transferring to Ohio State for the fall semester of 1976. There, I borrowed what I needed via government loans, which I repaid from the extra income I earned using those degrees (a BS in biochemistry and an MD)
That link gave a history of tuition prices at UCR from 1990-2013.

Ya, Cali used to have a great college program. Nowadays it's all about student loans and profit.

When I was college age, 90s, I couldn't afford it.

It wasn't just the cost of college I would've had to pay for, but also the cost of everyday life. I've lived on my own since I was 17.

Since: Jul 12

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#203961
Jan 17, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw a new American fifty last month for the first time. Your currency is becoming pretty colorful. I expect that is to get you used to colorful money like the Canadians and Mexicans already are:
[1] Canadian currency: http://www.fxexchangerate.com/cad-currency-im...
[2] Mexican currency: http://www.fxexchangerate.com/currencyimages/...
[3] American currency (before): http://serbiathroughamericaneyes.files.wordpr... (and after) http://famouswonders.com/wp-content/uploads/2...
You can probably guess why, and what's coming next. If not, let me enlighten you. Meet the Amero: http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/00315...
RR is not a conspiracy theory follower.....

There'll be no "Amero" currency.

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#203962
Jan 17, 2014
 
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Does that mean you are not swayed by babble belt rhetoric? Methinks you are.
Exactly… So wtf do you even consider it an argument? As I have already informed buck, Darwinism is accepted by the catholic church and ohhhh I bet you cannot guess what cult of christianity Hitler was…
Hitler also studied christianity during the most receptive years of his life, the time in a child’s life where good preachers realise (even if you don’t) that a person is exceptionally susceptible to conditioning/indoctrination.
Oh is that what you informed Buck?

Huh...

Aristotle informed us about spontaneous generation.

You're as correct as Aristotle.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

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#203963
Jan 17, 2014
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello.
I'm from the Greater WWW Morality Police Certification Board.
Your flashing blue lights have come to our attention.
Could you please show us your badge and certification?
.. do you take exception to my logic? If so, turn it around ..

"Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."

CHANGE TO

"Whether you say 'MURDER is a sin' or 'God hates MURDERERS,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."

.. does the logic work for you now? Do you still take exception ??..

Since: Jul 12

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#203964
Jan 17, 2014
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I farted.
Bongo wrote:
good post
Thanks, man.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#203965
Jan 17, 2014
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
It does not matter what closed minds think all that much. Closed minds preclude intelligence far more than does religious beliefs.
Maybe you don't mean by "closed minds" what I do. A closed mind is one that won't impartially consider evidence and allow a compelling argument to sway it, preferring instead to hold an irrational belief unsupported by evidence or contradicted by it. To me, that is the definition of faith. That's what occurs post after post, page after page, day after day right here in this thread and elsewhere.

I just posted what I feel is a compelling argument against the claim that the church does a significant amount of charitable work on behalf of the poor. I have zero doubt that the faithful will simply reject it out of hand without adequately addressing the evidence provided, nor offering contradictory evidence. Does anybody doubt that?

And that is due to nothing but "religious beliefs."

How about this argument? Will you refute it with a strong argument, or just ignore it and go on? Is there any doubt about the answer to that, either?

Please try not to be offended here. My purpose isn't to attack you or make a fool of you, but to point out discuss ideas, especially regarding the nature of faith and its effect on minds. You offered an (unsupported) opinion, and I offered a contradictory opinion that included a clear definition of a closed mind. and supporting evidence - the reactions of the theists posting here.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#203966
Jan 17, 2014
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
Others return [to the church] because of the futility of living Godless lives. They are seeking answers far beyond the nihilism which is a natural consequence of unbelief for many.
Sorry, but since you feel so comfortable telling me how empty and futile my godless life seems to you, I feel like I should share with you how your life looks to me.

Of the two of us, you're the nihilist - the one who sees this life as barren,desolate and hopeless. You're the one who sees man as evil and failed (that was you, wasn't it?). You're the one who can't find meaning in life if there is no god. You're the one that can't find a reason to be good unless there's reward and punishment involved.

You're banking on the existence of a god that exists to be worshiped, and that you believe created you to do that for it. How futile is that? How pointless an existence is it eternally praising a god?

And praised for what? Existing? Being lucky enough to find itself a god? It should be grateful and humble, not pompous. It should be dedicating its existence to being of service to all lesser creatures rather than sorting them out according to which will praise it.

As for me feeling nihilistic, you don't understand us at all. My life never felt less artificial than when I was near the end of my Christian walk and realized that there was no god - that I had been lied to, My life as an unbeliever has been the authentic and fulfilling one.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#203967
Jan 17, 2014
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
It is love which seeks to prevent a person from walking off a cliff. The groups which says one can practice homosexuality with no ultimate consequences has more to do with enabling than love. It is a perverted love because it does not have the homosexuals best interest at heart.
Is this an example of your uplifitng and life affirming alternative to godlessness? Your psychology and philosophy are like a vase of dead, wilted flowers. You apparently have no concept of what love is. It sure isn't your homophobia - your preoccupation with judging other people's sex lives and the punishment you imagine for them.
lightbeamrider wrote:
They at least deserve the truth, as opposed to a pack of lies perpetrated by well meaning moral buffoons. Those who call wrong right and right wrong.
Your truth and moral goodness are considered crimes in Canada.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#203968
Jan 17, 2014
 
Buck Crick wrote:
Which leprechaun?
LOL. Seamus O'Yahweh

Since: Jul 12

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#203969
Jan 17, 2014
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Something to think about? Such as what? Do you see any relevance in this for America and Americans? Perhaps you are implying that we unbelievers should value the church in America as well, and possibly help to preserve it. That would be an interesting discussion. My position is that the church offers nothing at all while imposing a considerable burden. The only rebuttal to that of which I am aware is that the church helps teach good values and does important charity work.
I would be willing to consider those claims and any others if a cogent, evidenced argument could be produced to support them, something better than "Everybody knows" or "It's common knowledge."
Riverside Redneck alluded briefly to something like that when he implied that group led school prayer taught respect for authority. He was unable to demonstrate that there was a problem with declining respect for authority or that prayer could help solve it. His claim was simply that it was true. He not only could supply no evidence in support of that claim, and he failed to address the evidence to the contrary that I provided from the lives of the participants in this thread. He just claimed that it could be ignored because it wasn't statistically significant (my phrase for his words), and calling his own youthful rebellion against the authority of parents that raised him with prayer an example of his secular nature.
He and I also once discussed the claim that the church is an important source of charity for the needy, and neither of us could find a supporting example. But we did find all of this that contradicted that claim:
[1] On church audits of American churches selected by RR http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR... http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
[2] On Mother Teresa's charities http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
[3] On audits of the Mormon church http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
They all tell the same story - the claim that the church is an important source of charity for the needy is grossly overblown. It doesn't even tithe to the poor and needy.The church's main charity is itself. Most of its revenues that don't go into somebody's pocket as income are spent supporting and promoting Christianity, as with church building and maintenance.
So how about it? Why should unbelievers in the West value the church? That's what I'd call "something to think about"
I think you forget that churches offer a free service. They don't charge you for anything. Donations (tithe) are absolutely voluntary.

How much of the income of a church goes to overhead? You know, the lease, property tax, electric bill, gas bill, phone bill, Internet bill, payroll, food, maintenance, repair, etc.

I sent to this one church that barely made anything. The pastor and the entire staff were 100% voluntary. They barely made enough to keep the lights on. The building needed a new roof,$15,000. We saved for nearly two years to accumulate that extra money to pay for the roof. And that was materials only, the labor was free because of the volunteers.

Back in March, you pounced all over your "fact" that churches spent only 6% on charity. So what? You never took into account what percentage is spent on overhead. That church I'm talking about probably didn't less than 6% on charity, it just couldn't afford it.

Since: Jul 12

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#203970
Jan 17, 2014
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Buck.
Do you have a view as to which religion is the most stupid?
I'm thinking about joining up in one where I'll be an immediate big shot.
Of course, I'd have to give up my Holy Church of Catcher, unless it's allowable to have allegiance to more than one religion.
I know you didn't ask me, but I see an opportunity here....

I think the Holy Church of Catcher is the most stupid.

So there.

Since: Sep 10

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#203971
Jan 17, 2014
 

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Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. do you take exception to my logic? If so, turn it around ..
"Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
CHANGE TO
"Whether you say 'MURDER is a sin' or 'God hates MURDERERS,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
.. does the logic work for you now? Do you still take exception ??..
Hey HL, you do realize that was Dave Nelson posting, no?

Since: Jul 12

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#203972
Jan 17, 2014
 
Catcher1 wrote:

The WBC spews out the same anti-homosexual views that you just vomited!
The precise wording may be different, but I'm hearing the same message: Homosexuality is an abomination.
This is what I just said:

"According to the Bible, homosexuality is wrong, but so is any extra-marital sex.
Why do some people focus so much on gays? I don't know. Maybe because homosexuality is some kind of "headline news" every single day...
I don't agree with putting it out on flyers or anything like that. That's just mean and stupid."

I think you must've stopped at "is wrong" and refused to read any further.

The WBC promotes "God hates fags". I do NOT.

If you're gonna sit here and say that I "vomit" anti-homosexual views, then you MUST also say that I "vomit" anti-sex views.("so is any extra-marital sex")

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#203973
Jan 17, 2014
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you forget that churches offer a free service. They don't charge you for anything. Donations (tithe) are absolutely voluntary.
How much of the income of a church goes to overhead? You know, the lease, property tax, electric bill, gas bill, phone bill, Internet bill, payroll, food, maintenance, repair, etc.
I sent to this one church that barely made anything. The pastor and the entire staff were 100% voluntary. They barely made enough to keep the lights on. The building needed a new roof,$15,000. We saved for nearly two years to accumulate that extra money to pay for the roof. And that was materials only, the labor was free because of the volunteers.
Back in March, you pounced all over your "fact" that churches spent only 6% on charity. So what? You never took into account what percentage is spent on overhead. That church I'm talking about probably didn't less than 6% on charity, it just couldn't afford it.
CORRECTION

"property tax" should be "payroll tax"

Since: Sep 08

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#203974
Jan 17, 2014
 
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. do you take exception to my logic? If so, turn it around ..
"Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
CHANGE TO
"Whether you say 'MURDER is a sin' or 'God hates MURDERERS,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
.. does the logic work for you now? Do you still take exception ??..
It appears your intent was to trigger a shame reaction.

Use of flashing blue lights is limited to certified and licensed authorities. Being a private dick does not empower you to use them to pull people over.

May we also please see your Hypocrite's License?

Since: Sep 10

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#203975
Jan 17, 2014
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you forget that churches offer a free service. They don't charge you for anything. Donations (tithe) are absolutely voluntary.
How much of the income of a church goes to overhead? You know, the lease, property tax, electric bill, gas bill, phone bill, Internet bill, payroll, food, maintenance, repair, etc.
I sent to this one church that barely made anything. The pastor and the entire staff were 100% voluntary. They barely made enough to keep the lights on. The building needed a new roof,$15,000. We saved for nearly two years to accumulate that extra money to pay for the roof. And that was materials only, the labor was free because of the volunteers.
Back in March, you pounced all over your "fact" that churches spent only 6% on charity. So what? You never took into account what percentage is spent on overhead. That church I'm talking about probably didn't less than 6% on charity, it just couldn't afford it.
Joel Osteen may be able to help your needy church.

Tell him it's for a worthy purpose.

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