Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 243577 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203962 Jan 17, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Does that mean you are not swayed by babble belt rhetoric? Methinks you are.
Exactly… So wtf do you even consider it an argument? As I have already informed buck, Darwinism is accepted by the catholic church and ohhhh I bet you cannot guess what cult of christianity Hitler was…
Hitler also studied christianity during the most receptive years of his life, the time in a child’s life where good preachers realise (even if you don’t) that a person is exceptionally susceptible to conditioning/indoctrination.
Oh is that what you informed Buck?

Huh...

Aristotle informed us about spontaneous generation.

You're as correct as Aristotle.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#203963 Jan 17, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello.
I'm from the Greater WWW Morality Police Certification Board.
Your flashing blue lights have come to our attention.
Could you please show us your badge and certification?
.. do you take exception to my logic? If so, turn it around ..

"Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."

CHANGE TO

"Whether you say 'MURDER is a sin' or 'God hates MURDERERS,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."

.. does the logic work for you now? Do you still take exception ??..

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203964 Jan 17, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I farted.
Bongo wrote:
good post
Thanks, man.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203965 Jan 17, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
It does not matter what closed minds think all that much. Closed minds preclude intelligence far more than does religious beliefs.
Maybe you don't mean by "closed minds" what I do. A closed mind is one that won't impartially consider evidence and allow a compelling argument to sway it, preferring instead to hold an irrational belief unsupported by evidence or contradicted by it. To me, that is the definition of faith. That's what occurs post after post, page after page, day after day right here in this thread and elsewhere.

I just posted what I feel is a compelling argument against the claim that the church does a significant amount of charitable work on behalf of the poor. I have zero doubt that the faithful will simply reject it out of hand without adequately addressing the evidence provided, nor offering contradictory evidence. Does anybody doubt that?

And that is due to nothing but "religious beliefs."

How about this argument? Will you refute it with a strong argument, or just ignore it and go on? Is there any doubt about the answer to that, either?

Please try not to be offended here. My purpose isn't to attack you or make a fool of you, but to point out discuss ideas, especially regarding the nature of faith and its effect on minds. You offered an (unsupported) opinion, and I offered a contradictory opinion that included a clear definition of a closed mind. and supporting evidence - the reactions of the theists posting here.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203966 Jan 17, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
Others return [to the church] because of the futility of living Godless lives. They are seeking answers far beyond the nihilism which is a natural consequence of unbelief for many.
Sorry, but since you feel so comfortable telling me how empty and futile my godless life seems to you, I feel like I should share with you how your life looks to me.

Of the two of us, you're the nihilist - the one who sees this life as barren,desolate and hopeless. You're the one who sees man as evil and failed (that was you, wasn't it?). You're the one who can't find meaning in life if there is no god. You're the one that can't find a reason to be good unless there's reward and punishment involved.

You're banking on the existence of a god that exists to be worshiped, and that you believe created you to do that for it. How futile is that? How pointless an existence is it eternally praising a god?

And praised for what? Existing? Being lucky enough to find itself a god? It should be grateful and humble, not pompous. It should be dedicating its existence to being of service to all lesser creatures rather than sorting them out according to which will praise it.

As for me feeling nihilistic, you don't understand us at all. My life never felt less artificial than when I was near the end of my Christian walk and realized that there was no god - that I had been lied to, My life as an unbeliever has been the authentic and fulfilling one.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203967 Jan 17, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
It is love which seeks to prevent a person from walking off a cliff. The groups which says one can practice homosexuality with no ultimate consequences has more to do with enabling than love. It is a perverted love because it does not have the homosexuals best interest at heart.
Is this an example of your uplifitng and life affirming alternative to godlessness? Your psychology and philosophy are like a vase of dead, wilted flowers. You apparently have no concept of what love is. It sure isn't your homophobia - your preoccupation with judging other people's sex lives and the punishment you imagine for them.
lightbeamrider wrote:
They at least deserve the truth, as opposed to a pack of lies perpetrated by well meaning moral buffoons. Those who call wrong right and right wrong.
Your truth and moral goodness are considered crimes in Canada.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203968 Jan 17, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
Which leprechaun?
LOL. Seamus O'Yahweh

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203969 Jan 17, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Something to think about? Such as what? Do you see any relevance in this for America and Americans? Perhaps you are implying that we unbelievers should value the church in America as well, and possibly help to preserve it. That would be an interesting discussion. My position is that the church offers nothing at all while imposing a considerable burden. The only rebuttal to that of which I am aware is that the church helps teach good values and does important charity work.
I would be willing to consider those claims and any others if a cogent, evidenced argument could be produced to support them, something better than "Everybody knows" or "It's common knowledge."
Riverside Redneck alluded briefly to something like that when he implied that group led school prayer taught respect for authority. He was unable to demonstrate that there was a problem with declining respect for authority or that prayer could help solve it. His claim was simply that it was true. He not only could supply no evidence in support of that claim, and he failed to address the evidence to the contrary that I provided from the lives of the participants in this thread. He just claimed that it could be ignored because it wasn't statistically significant (my phrase for his words), and calling his own youthful rebellion against the authority of parents that raised him with prayer an example of his secular nature.
He and I also once discussed the claim that the church is an important source of charity for the needy, and neither of us could find a supporting example. But we did find all of this that contradicted that claim:
[1] On church audits of American churches selected by RR http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR... http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
[2] On Mother Teresa's charities http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
[3] On audits of the Mormon church http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
They all tell the same story - the claim that the church is an important source of charity for the needy is grossly overblown. It doesn't even tithe to the poor and needy.The church's main charity is itself. Most of its revenues that don't go into somebody's pocket as income are spent supporting and promoting Christianity, as with church building and maintenance.
So how about it? Why should unbelievers in the West value the church? That's what I'd call "something to think about"
I think you forget that churches offer a free service. They don't charge you for anything. Donations (tithe) are absolutely voluntary.

How much of the income of a church goes to overhead? You know, the lease, property tax, electric bill, gas bill, phone bill, Internet bill, payroll, food, maintenance, repair, etc.

I sent to this one church that barely made anything. The pastor and the entire staff were 100% voluntary. They barely made enough to keep the lights on. The building needed a new roof,$15,000. We saved for nearly two years to accumulate that extra money to pay for the roof. And that was materials only, the labor was free because of the volunteers.

Back in March, you pounced all over your "fact" that churches spent only 6% on charity. So what? You never took into account what percentage is spent on overhead. That church I'm talking about probably didn't less than 6% on charity, it just couldn't afford it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203970 Jan 17, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Buck.
Do you have a view as to which religion is the most stupid?
I'm thinking about joining up in one where I'll be an immediate big shot.
Of course, I'd have to give up my Holy Church of Catcher, unless it's allowable to have allegiance to more than one religion.
I know you didn't ask me, but I see an opportunity here....

I think the Holy Church of Catcher is the most stupid.

So there.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#203971 Jan 17, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. do you take exception to my logic? If so, turn it around ..
"Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
CHANGE TO
"Whether you say 'MURDER is a sin' or 'God hates MURDERERS,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
.. does the logic work for you now? Do you still take exception ??..
Hey HL, you do realize that was Dave Nelson posting, no?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203972 Jan 17, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:

The WBC spews out the same anti-homosexual views that you just vomited!
The precise wording may be different, but I'm hearing the same message: Homosexuality is an abomination.
This is what I just said:

"According to the Bible, homosexuality is wrong, but so is any extra-marital sex.
Why do some people focus so much on gays? I don't know. Maybe because homosexuality is some kind of "headline news" every single day...
I don't agree with putting it out on flyers or anything like that. That's just mean and stupid."

I think you must've stopped at "is wrong" and refused to read any further.

The WBC promotes "God hates fags". I do NOT.

If you're gonna sit here and say that I "vomit" anti-homosexual views, then you MUST also say that I "vomit" anti-sex views.("so is any extra-marital sex")

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203973 Jan 17, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you forget that churches offer a free service. They don't charge you for anything. Donations (tithe) are absolutely voluntary.
How much of the income of a church goes to overhead? You know, the lease, property tax, electric bill, gas bill, phone bill, Internet bill, payroll, food, maintenance, repair, etc.
I sent to this one church that barely made anything. The pastor and the entire staff were 100% voluntary. They barely made enough to keep the lights on. The building needed a new roof,$15,000. We saved for nearly two years to accumulate that extra money to pay for the roof. And that was materials only, the labor was free because of the volunteers.
Back in March, you pounced all over your "fact" that churches spent only 6% on charity. So what? You never took into account what percentage is spent on overhead. That church I'm talking about probably didn't less than 6% on charity, it just couldn't afford it.
CORRECTION

"property tax" should be "payroll tax"

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#203974 Jan 17, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. do you take exception to my logic? If so, turn it around ..
"Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
CHANGE TO
"Whether you say 'MURDER is a sin' or 'God hates MURDERERS,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused."
.. does the logic work for you now? Do you still take exception ??..
It appears your intent was to trigger a shame reaction.

Use of flashing blue lights is limited to certified and licensed authorities. Being a private dick does not empower you to use them to pull people over.

May we also please see your Hypocrite's License?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#203975 Jan 17, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you forget that churches offer a free service. They don't charge you for anything. Donations (tithe) are absolutely voluntary.
How much of the income of a church goes to overhead? You know, the lease, property tax, electric bill, gas bill, phone bill, Internet bill, payroll, food, maintenance, repair, etc.
I sent to this one church that barely made anything. The pastor and the entire staff were 100% voluntary. They barely made enough to keep the lights on. The building needed a new roof,$15,000. We saved for nearly two years to accumulate that extra money to pay for the roof. And that was materials only, the labor was free because of the volunteers.
Back in March, you pounced all over your "fact" that churches spent only 6% on charity. So what? You never took into account what percentage is spent on overhead. That church I'm talking about probably didn't less than 6% on charity, it just couldn't afford it.
Joel Osteen may be able to help your needy church.

Tell him it's for a worthy purpose.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#203976 Jan 17, 2014
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/17/us-...

Is it not curious how an issue about informing children of the joys of gay sex has reached a level where it affects and threatens international relations?

That is the most important issue in the world?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#203977 Jan 17, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you didn't ask me, but I see an opportunity here....
I think the Holy Church of Catcher is the most stupid.
So there.
As usual, you speak off the top of your head, with no knowledge whatsoever.

You have never been to the Holy Church of Catcher.

We keep very detailed records.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203978 Jan 17, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:

.. bigotry is expressed in various ways, sometimes subtle, other times blatant. But, the message is always the same: my god disapproves of you ..
I disagree.

I've had extra-marital sex. In the eyes of God, that's equally 'abominable' as homosexual sex.

I don't think God disapproves of me, but I think He disapproves of my actions.

In turn, I don't think God disapproves of gays, either. Just their actions.
.. how do I get through to you?
A sammich would be a good start....

[QUOTEw There is no politically correct way to convey intent. Whether you say 'homosexuality is a sin' or 'God hates fags,' the underlying message is ALWAYS meant to express your disapproval and, hopefully, trigger a shame reaction in the accused ..
.. if you dislike gays, I have no problem with that just don't hide behind God or a book to express your disdain, be open about it, suits you better ..[/QUOTE]

Let me be very, very, VERY clear here:

I don't dislike gays.

Do you have that in your mind?

I don't dislike gays.

I don't hurt gays, I don't demean them(at least I try not to), I don't attack them, I don't make fun of them (no more than any other group, and always in humor).

A person can dislike a person's actions without disliking the person (or the group), you know.

When *** I *** say something like homosexual sex is wrong, my intent is not to demean or to express disapproval. My intent is to demonstrate that it's a sin, and being a sin, it's wrong.

This is why I didn't wink at Robertson's words and I didn't find them anti- anything. He expressed his Christian opinion about sin.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203979 Jan 17, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Joel Osteen may be able to help your needy church.
Tell him it's for a worthy purpose.
Who?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#203980 Jan 17, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what I just said:
"According to the Bible, homosexuality is wrong, but so is any extra-marital sex.
Why do some people focus so much on gays? I don't know. Maybe because homosexuality is some kind of "headline news" every single day...
I don't agree with putting it out on flyers or anything like that. That's just mean and stupid."
I think you must've stopped at "is wrong" and refused to read any further.
The WBC promotes "God hates fags". I do NOT.
If you're gonna sit here and say that I "vomit" anti-homosexual views, then you MUST also say that I "vomit" anti-sex views.("so is any extra-marital sex")
You vomit a lot of bigoted, hateful views.

Homophobic views are included in your bigotry.

Thanks for your offer to discuss some of your other bigoted views, but I'm busy focusing on your homophobia at the moment.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203981 Jan 17, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:

As usual, you speak off the top of your head, with no knowledge whatsoever.
You have never been to the Holy Church of Catcher.
We keep very detailed records.
It's a Jew church?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... (Oct '14) 1 hr ChristineM 9,563
News Founders created secular nation (Jul '10) 14 hr The_Box 522
News Aliens and evolution (Jun '12) 23 hr USaWarringIDIOTSo... 6,224
News Why Atheism Will Replace Religion (Aug '12) Mon TC_Tia 14,656
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) Mon MikeF 19,806
News Atheism must be about more than just not believ... Jul 4 Amused 2
Should atheists have the burden of proof? Jul 4 thetruth 38
More from around the web