Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#203085 Jan 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Buck doesn't care about facts. All Buck cares about is his narrative.
This is true, just so long as the narrative backs up what he says, it may be cherry picked, it may be out of context, it may be totally irrelevant to the discussion or it may juts be total garbage but there will usually be bits in it that makes his feel good about himself. Totally meaningless of course but he must massage his ego. He must be one of the most egotestical (correct spelling) people ever to disgrace the annuls of topix

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#203086 Jan 15, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:

But..... I tried extra special hard.
I even put out the roses and everything...
River Tam wrote:
Why were they on fire?
I thought I'd spice em up.

No good?
Bongo

Coram, NY

#203087 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for that crumb. Now I'll go fix a sammich.
After morning sex and being served a fine cup of Columbian theres nothing like perusing the mornings offering of pseudo cogent posts. Although they are well articulated and interesting and bear some truth they are just not necessarily so. Our arcane deity certainly frustrates the wisdom of the wise. My faith is strengthened by what I see here daily.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#203088 Jan 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Buck has said that he has smashed the faces of people that disagree with him. Here, on Topix, he can't make physical attacks, so he makes verbal ones instead.
These are things people do that are very insecure about their beliefs. Buck's insults just mean he doesn't really believe what he is pushing.
Yup I know, his intolerance of people who donít agree with him, his thuggerey and his violence make him a legend in his own mind.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203089 Jan 15, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
You might have a conscience, but that bestows no obligation on another who has none.
Agreed.
Buck Crick wrote:
Neither you nor a wrongdoer is responsible for anything in a purely material world.
To whom? We can each be held accountable by others, and hopefully, by ourselves..
Buck Crick wrote:
Every action he takes is the result of prior material acts, or the result of randomness, over which he had no part in. He is not responsible or culpable.
There is some merit to that. But we will still try to influence or limit his choices just like we would if we declared him insane..
Buck Crick wrote:
If other men choose to isolate or punish him, they are simply imposing their own collective construction of rules onto him, of which, he may also have had no part.
Agreed. I don't approve of punishment for its own sake, incidentally. It has to be for preventing future bad behavior - corrections, warning, or isolation.
Buck Crick wrote:
It is unjust and irrational to hold anyone to moral responsibilities in a material world.
I don't agree, but I'll stipulate to that. Then let's call it something else. We don't consider many of the destructive agents of nature morally culpable, but we take action to prevent the damage they cause anyway.
Buck Crick wrote:
Pol Pott managed to control the collective rules. He slaughtered men, women, and children. He is not culpable, or guilty of any moral wrong in the material world. He was just a puppet dancing on the strings of material processes. No harm, no foul.
Plenty of harm. He should have been stopped if possible.

Have you noticed that materialists don't seem to hold the values that our critics impute to us - what they say we are obligated to believe? The conclusions you draw are what you think a materialist should believe if he thought like you - no god, no problem. But we keep coming to other conclusions nevertheless. When a theist tells us that we have nothing stopping us from berserking and wilding, he is projecting his own psyche less his god belief onto the unbeliever. But the unbeliever is much more than that, and has resources and faculties in play that the theist is apparently unaware of. That's why it makes more sense for a theist to ask an unbeliever what he believes rather than tell him what conclusions he must come to if as if he were a theist who suddenly had his principal or sole reason for misbehaving removed..
Bongo

Coram, NY

#203090 Jan 15, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Buck doesn't care about facts. All Buck cares about is his narrative.
You seem angry that someone effectively retorts your views. You are indeed a dissenter and have a problem with God and authority. Good thing you were born in a free country eh?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203091 Jan 15, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
No, thank you, but I don't think I will follow you [KiMare] any further down the rabbit hole, Alice. It was amusing, for awhile, to watch your machinations, your red herrings, your twists, your occasional glaring ignorance of the material, all the while ungraciously ignoring counter-points and questions that offer a reasonable contribution, if not agreed conclusion. And always signed off with a smug pose of pretended lassitude. That was quaint, the first couple of times. Like a child that gets a laugh once, and then runs a joke into the ground, you obliviously go to the well too often there, but you'll do as you please, I'm sure. As Dickens' Jenny Wren said, "I know your ways and your manners" clearly by now. No, this ride has become tedious and boring. I'm content to wait for the next one.
You gave him more than he gave you.
HipGnosis wrote:
>wink<
LOL.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203092 Jan 15, 2014
scaritual wrote:
Yeah, I do think the bible is a farce. I was accommodating you [KiMare] for discussion purposes. I guess we're done here, unless you can supply evidence for your claim.
And then there were none.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#203093 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's activism. A strict constructionalist would have limited the right to bear arms to a militia as the Amendment reads. You were emphatic that extending the meaning of the word Congress was activism. Extending the meaning of the word militia to include people who are not part of one is activism.
<quoted text>
That is an opinion. But regardless, where does the Constitution instruct the Court to have intervened in the state of Florida's handling of its elections?
<quoted text>
Doesn't that make the choice to intervene activism?
Incidentally, you seem to be contradicting yourself with your last two comments.
No, the amendment does not say that, nor is it the intent. The operative clause of the amendment has nothing to do with a militia.

Strict constructionism yields the holding of the right to bear arms as an individual right.

On the intervention in Florida, that is arguably activism.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#203094 Jan 15, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> You seem angry that someone effectively retorts your views. You are indeed a dissenter and have a problem with God and authority. Good thing you were born in a free country eh?
Project much?

We were discussing our experience of Buck, and we both agree that he has problems. You obviously find that upsetting and so blindly lash out in your good christian way.

Why I this?

Is it because that you do not believe that anyone other than you and your cult (which one of over 40,000) should have an opinion? This my dear is known as intolerance, it is responsible for the majority murders and genocideís in this world throughout the history of religion. It is something that most brands of godbot are infected with, itís part of the joining package that is reinforced throughout years of indoctrination.

This of course does not make intolerance acceptable to anyone other then the intolerant and I eagerly look forward to your reply.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#203095 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you noticed that materialists don't seem to hold the values that our critics impute to us - what they say we are obligated to believe? The conclusions you draw are what you think a materialist should believe if he thought like you - no god, no problem. But we keep coming to other conclusions nevertheless. When a theist tells us that we have nothing stopping us from berserking and wilding, he is projecting his own psyche less his god belief onto the unbeliever. But the unbeliever is much more than that, and has resources and faculties in play that the theist is apparently unaware of. That's why it makes more sense for a theist to ask an unbeliever what he believes rather than tell him what conclusions he must come to if as if he were a theist who suddenly had his principal or sole reason for misbehaving removed..
Good summation of the differing thought processes.

When I was first confronted with this dichotomy, I didn't recognize it. I was baffled. What a ludicrous proposition! I was certain they were just posing for effect. But after considerable discussion with multiple faithers repeating this same view, with little variation, I came to realize that there apparently were individuals who required, all the way thru adulthood, an external "Rulegiver/Enforcer" . They actually seem to need someone to restrain their murderous, larcenous impulses. More than that, it has to be an "all-powerful Deity", because, by God, society can't tell them what to do.

And as you say, since it seems that being self-absorbed goes hand-in-hand with these personality types, they assume, no, insist, that everyone else suffers from the same moral turpitude.

When I realized this, I changed my mind about Bibles and such. If this is all that restrains these people from unleashing their depravity upon society, I say, Print more Bibles, hand them out with every purchase of a Duck Dynasty t-shirt.

Thor bless the Gideon Society!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#203096 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Why do you think so? I'm not terrified by it. I'm just not moved by such accounts. Why would I be? If they represent more than mere psychological experiences, terrific.What should I do differently now either way? Certainly not worship the Christian god, the Muslim god, Hindu gods, or any others.
Buck Crick wrote:
I have seen what happens when it gets brought up among materialists, and even on this forum. If my recollection is correct, in the case of Dr. Eben Alexander, you started linking to critiques by Sam Harris, wherein he dismissed it with his usual fake confidence, while knowing practically nothing about it. Then he ran and hid.
Disagree. Sam Harris is qualified to rebut Alexander's claims about the cessation of his cortical function, which included a criticism of a brain evaluation limited to spinal fluid, physical exams, and CT scans rather than functional studes like fMRI and PET scans, as well as an inquiry into the possible effects of fever, endogenous DMT, and exogenous ketamine.

But even if true, where do you get terrified from that? How about incredulous?
Bongo

Coram, NY

#203097 Jan 15, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Project much?
We were discussing our experience of Buck, and we both agree that he has problems. You obviously find that upsetting and so blindly lash out in your good christian way.
Why I this?
Is it because that you do not believe that anyone other than you and your cult (which one of over 40,000) should have an opinion? This my dear is known as intolerance, it is responsible for the majority murders and genocideís in this world throughout the history of religion. It is something that most brands of godbot are infected with, itís part of the joining package that is reinforced throughout years of indoctrination.
This of course does not make intolerance acceptable to anyone other then the intolerant and I eagerly look forward to your reply.
Chrissy you know I like eager gals. You had an experience with Buck? Buck may be a bitch slapping recidivist but he upholds facts and your side works around them.
Bongo

Coram, NY

#203098 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Disagree. Sam Harris is qualified to rebut Alexander's claims about the cessation of his cortical function, which included a criticism of a brain evaluation limited to spinal fluid, physical exams, and CT scans rather than functional studes like fMRI and PET scans, as well as an inquiry into the possible effects of fever, endogenous DMT, and exogenous ketamine.
But even if true, where do you get terrified from that? How about incredulous?
oh yeah, what about glucose?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#203099 Jan 15, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
RiversideRedneck wrote:
He was no professional, was he?
<quoted text>
You hired an artist?
For a deck?
It's just a deck, Catch. It doesn't take an artist to build one.
What color did you choose?
Brown, looks just like unpainted wood and matches the beams of my craftsman house.

You owe IANS some responses.

Think first.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#203100 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You gave him more than he gave you.
<quoted text>
LOL.
Well, it was informative. At least now we have a clue how Eratosthenes could possibly calculate the circumference of the earth 2300 years ago.

Aliens told him!
Bongo

Coram, NY

#203101 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Have you noticed that materialists don't seem to hold the values that our critics impute to us - what they say we are obligated to believe? The conclusions you draw are what you think a materialist should believe if he thought like you - no god, no problem. But we keep coming to other conclusions nevertheless. When a theist tells us that we have nothing stopping us from berserking and wilding, he is projecting his own psyche less his god belief onto the unbeliever. But the unbeliever is much more than that, and has resources and faculties in play that the theist is apparently unaware of. That's why it makes more sense for a theist to ask an unbeliever what he believes rather than tell him what conclusions he must come to if as if he were a theist who suddenly had his principal or sole reason for misbehaving removed..
You do hold those values. They would surface in adversity and if left up to your own devices. Its like the arms race, as long as there is a counter deterent we have the status quo. Things like famine, and shortages of resources will bring out the true colors. Godlessness leads down a foreboding path.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#203102 Jan 15, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Disagree. Sam Harris is qualified to rebut Alexander's claims about the cessation of his cortical function, which included a criticism of a brain evaluation limited to spinal fluid, physical exams, and CT scans rather than functional studes like fMRI and PET scans, as well as an inquiry into the possible effects of fever, endogenous DMT, and exogenous ketamine.
But even if true, where do you get terrified from that? How about incredulous?
Esquire has an article in which the treating medical staff debunks several of Alexander's claims. That's not surprising - that's the business skeptics trade in.

What is equally unsurprising is Alexander's response: "Esquire's cynical article distorts the facts of my 25-year career as a neurosurgeon and is a textbook example of how unsupported assertions and cherry-picked information can be assembled at the expense of the truth.í

In other words, the defense rebuttal amounts to, "Huh Uh! You're stupid!"

Sounds very familiar

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-23543...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#203103 Jan 15, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Chrissy you know I like eager gals. You had an experience with Buck? Buck may be a bitch slapping recidivist but he upholds facts and your side works around them.
Wrong, What he knows is propaganda, super market tabloid hype and mythology stories all washed down with incredulity, hypocrisy and lies. He probably would not know a fact if one sat on his face and farted, and if he did recognise it as a fact he would deny it out of hand if it a non believer in his god ideas doing the farting.

A man after your own heart eh?
Chris Clearwater

United States

#203104 Jan 15, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Good summation of the differing thought processes.
When I was first confronted with this dichotomy, I didn't recognize it. I was baffled. What a ludicrous proposition! I was certain they were just posing for effect. But after considerable discussion with multiple faithers repeating this same view, with little variation, I came to realize that there apparently were individuals who required, all the way thru adulthood, an external "Rulegiver/Enforcer" . They actually seem to need someone to restrain their murderous, larcenous impulses. More than that, it has to be an "all-powerful Deity", because, by God, society can't tell them what to do.
And as you say, since it seems that being self-absorbed goes hand-in-hand with these personality types, they assume, no, insist, that everyone else suffers from the same moral turpitude.
When I realized this, I changed my mind about Bibles and such. If this is all that restrains these people from unleashing their depravity upon society, I say, Print more Bibles, hand them out with every purchase of a Duck Dynasty t-shirt.
Thor bless the Gideon Society!
Ah, that is so sweet. I must check that show out again. Btw, who is it that goes off the deep end when a person shares what they believe? Who is it that is so tolerant they lie and smear calling it hate insisting the world sees it our way or else? Again thanks for a laugh.

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