Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Jul 18, 2009 Read more: Webbunny tumblelog 237,782
Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more

Since: May 10

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#196202 Dec 26, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Fixed, static, or finite - the choice doesn't change a thing. It's just a semantic ploy piled on top of a previous semantic ploy in service to an attempt to demonize a scientific theory for no other reason than that it >seems< to threaten the fundamentalist status quo.
Total and complete, laissez-faire, free-market capitalism is a branch of science describing an economic theory, end and period. It is not "selfish" any more than it can be angry, sad, happy or glad. Those are merely anthropomorphic descriptors of it's effects in the hands of humans.
Exactly like correlating Darwinism with Hitler.
Wrong;

"Finite" resources, as assigned to biological Darwinism suggest "infinite" resources with regard to capitalism. This is erroneous because both sets of resources are "finite", or limited by actual quantity.

The resources of one are fixed, or static, as opposed to the other, in which resources increase with increased capitalist activity.

"Selfishness" is a characteristic operating in both systems.

The Hitler to Darwin link is obvious and inescapable. If you properly provoke me, I will post a couple of hundred posts proving it.

Some on here have seen me do that, and would likely not wish to see it again.

“National Socialism (Nazism) is nothing but applied biology."

- Deputy Nazi Party leader, Rudolf Hess.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196203 Dec 26, 2013
Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
you only get a point when you present evidence of the god you've failed to lie about successfully here.
Too bad for you I don't need to follow your mandate.

I am not required to prove God to you or anyone else.

Since: May 10

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#196204 Dec 26, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. If Redneck thinks that Stalin represents all of atheism, why doesn't he accept that Fred Phelps represents all of Christianity?
Nobody has claimed Stalin represents all of atheism, Darwin's Stump Humper.

I see you are still stupid.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#196205 Dec 26, 2013
Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitler was Christian, let us know when you have evidence of god.
Fools can be fooled by a fool.

Hitler was a deceiver of fools.

For the foolish ask to be fooled by the fools fool.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#196206 Dec 26, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, indeed.
The difference? Eventually, your dog **will** learn. Alas... the same cannot be said for your typical godbot.
Putting your dog in a superior position, learning-wise.
Let me guess your dog did your Algebra homework when you were in school.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#196207 Dec 26, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. If Redneck thinks that Stalin represents all of atheism, why doesn't he accept that Fred Phelps represents all of Christianity?
If the pews in Phelps' church were circular, would his congregation be infinite?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha....
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#196208 Dec 26, 2013
Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitler was christian - nice try.
Next time you take a sh*t. Get a pie pan and fill ur up.

Smooth it over nice and pat it down. Then call it pumpkin pie and serve it to all your atheist friends.

Never mind it looks like sh*t, taste like sh*t, smells like sh*t, it’s pumpkin pie because YOU said it was pumpkin pie.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#196209 Dec 26, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong;
"Finite" resources, as assigned to biological Darwinism suggest "infinite" resources with regard to capitalism. This is erroneous because both sets of resources are "finite", or limited by actual quantity.
The resources of one are fixed, or static, as opposed to the other, in which resources increase with increased capitalist activity.
"Selfishness" is a characteristic operating in both systems.
The Hitler to Darwin link is obvious and inescapable. If you properly provoke me, I will post a couple of hundred posts proving it.
Some on here have seen me do that, and would likely not wish to see it again.
“National Socialism (Nazism) is nothing but applied biology."
- Deputy Nazi Party leader, Rudolf Hess.
It looks like you've got two choices.

You can affirm that you agree with the stated rationalization of Nazi policy,
or,
you can affirm that they erroneously expropriated science to their own ends.

Which is it?

Since: May 10

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#196210 Dec 26, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
After saying something like this...
<quoted text>
...I think your claims to knowledge have lost all credibility. Not that you ever had any.
<quoted text>
Right, which is why Darwin was banned in Nazi Germany. Makes perfect sense (in a Buck sort of way). Clearly you haven't read any of Hitler's Mein Kampf. If you ever do, you should make note of all the mentions of "his Creator".
Do we have to do this again, Dagwood's Brain Child?

The Hitler-Darwin link is inescapable, you little Poof.

From Mein Kampf:

“existence is subject to the law of eternal struggle and strife….where the strong are always the masters of the weak and where those subject to such laws must obey them or be destroyed.”

Darwinism. In Mein Kampf.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah....

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196211 Dec 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Yes, I know. That was my point to Dave. Did you tell me that because you think that I thought otherwise?
Lol

Actually, yes.

Sorry

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196212 Dec 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:

You'll willfully ignore all the Christian attitudes
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
What "christian attitudes" would that be?
Yours?
Because we have all seen how much hate your attitude has.
Hmmmm.....
... just like your Jesus taught to you to hate? Right?
You would know the answer to your first question had you not deceptively erased the rest of my post.

Derp

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196213 Dec 26, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I'd have to disagree with that about the German people.
I read Wm Schierer's "Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich" expressly to find that out - how did the German people allow this to happen?(and I have a partial Germanic heritage so let's dispense with that).
You're right - a few people did express reservations. A very few. They didn't do it for long.
But the disheartening thing was that the vast - vast - majority of the people were supportive, and very often wildly enthusiastic, and yes, even with the Jewish pogroms, ghettos, and inevitable genocide (Google "Einsatzgrupen" (sp?)). The historical antecedents that led to that place are complex, but the fact remains, Hitler did in fact substantially represent the German people.
Sentiment didn't really begin to turn (very quietly) until after the failed Russian campaign.
And those historical antecedents relative to the Jews can be traced directly to Martin Luther.
They may have liked him because he gave tax breaks and welfare, redistributed the wealth as it were, but they were appalled by his tactics.

Traced to Luther? What are you talking about?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196214 Dec 26, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Good point. I'm not Christian anymore, nor am I German.
But it is a flawed separation. I still like church potlucks, and sauerkraut.
So like Hitler, you were a Christian but not anymore.

I love sauerkraut, specially on hot dogs.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196215 Dec 26, 2013
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I hope you're not just posing. But if so, well, you're more evolved than me.
After seeing the senseless destruction and tragic deaths of innocents on 9/11 at the hands of those motivated by "a belief", I wanted to see bin Laden's bloody head on a pole (and still considered myself a devoted Christian in 2001). I was exultant at his death - only wished it could have been ten years sooner, and of the lingering kind.
But I feel a similar sense of anger when I see the film about the indoctrination of children at Jesus Camp. Or read about the Salem witch trials. Or the systematic rape and pillage of whole nations under the banner of the Cross. Or...
What can I say? I'm only human.
Ho-ho-hold on there, pardner.

What the terrorists did on 9-11 was not a belief, it was an act of war. They asked for the red, white & blue dragon - they got it.

Bin Laden deserved to due not for his beliefs, but for his actions.

If ----- IF ----- he only thought about blowing us up but never did anything, how could you justify murdering him?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#196216 Dec 26, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Darwinism is strict adherence to the theory of evolution, as presently constructed. What does it have to do with Hitler? Practically everything. Where did Hitler get the idea that killing inferior races was an evolutionary benefit? From Darwinian inspired biologists and social thinkers who taught:
1. Humans were not qualitatively different from animals.
2. Denied that humans had an immaterial soul.
3. Morality was the product of mindless evolution, thus there is no objective, fixed morality and thus no objective human rights.
4. Since evolution requires variation, human inequality is a principle.
5. Human races are locked in an ineluctable struggle for existence.
6. Darwinism justified Hitler in overturning the Judeo-Christian view of death as an enemy, construing it instead as a beneficial engine of progress. Whatever else he gave us, Darwin gave us Hitler.
Yikes, Buck.

Social thinkers? If social thinkers borrowed from biology to justify eugenics, you would hang that on Darwin?

Hitler was a social thinker. I don't think he needed much help justifying murder.

1. Neither Darwin nor the theory of evolution teach that humans are not qualitatively different from animals. In fact, adult humans are qualitatively different from minor humans, and males humans are qualitatively different from female ones.

2. Souls are irrelevant. Their absence doesn't justify genocide.

3. Neither does the absence of "objective, fixed morality and thus no objective human rights" support genocide. Secular humanism affirms that optimal moral values are human constructs generated by people of reason and good will, and conclude that genocide is an abomination anyway..

4. Yes, evolution requires variation, but your leap to claiming that that justifies genocide or murder is unsupported.

5. Biology teaches that as individuals, we compete for scarce resources and have differential survival and reproductive success. I'm not sure what you mean by "human races are locked in an ineluctable struggle for existence," but if you're talking about organized struggles to the death between different groups of people such as war and genocide, I disagree with you about that problem being ineluctable.

6. You say that, "Darwinism justified Hitler in overturning the Judeo-Christian view of death as an enemy, construing it instead as a beneficial engine of progress." I have no idea why you say that. How does Christianity make death more of an enemy than secular biological theories that see death as the end of consciousness. Maybe you'd like to read the Christian perspective on death in 1 Corinthians 15:55-57: "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ," which may be the motivation for the saying, "Kill them all and let God sort them out." Secularist values include protecting life.

==========

It saddens me to read this kind of thing from you, Buck. You shouldn't be thinking like this. It's your religious upbringing speaking through you, and yet another reason for me to object to anybody at all being exposed to such teaching. In my experience, nobody but faith based thinkers defending a theological doctrine against the implications of science write or speak like this.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#196217 Dec 26, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Do we have to do this again, Dagwood's Brain Child?
The Hitler-Darwin link is inescapable, you little Poof.
From Mein Kampf:
“existence is subject to the law of eternal struggle and strife….where the strong are always the masters of the weak and where those subject to such laws must obey them or be destroyed.”
Darwinism. In Mein Kampf.
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah....
Shoot, that generic reference could have been written by Sun-Tzu, or Caesar, or a host of other military "philosophers".

Show a direct reference to Darwin by Hitler. Otherwise you got nada.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#196218 Dec 26, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Right, which is why Darwin was banned in Nazi Germany. Makes perfect sense (in a Buck sort of way). Clearly you haven't read any of Hitler's Mein Kampf. If you ever do, you should make note of all the mentions of "his Creator".
"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous [i.e., most human-looking] apes -- will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla."

Is that Darwin or Hitler?

I think you'll be surprised.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

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#196219 Dec 26, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
But Bush and Robertson don't represent Christianity.


Correct. They represent themselves.
I thought that the words spoke for themselves, but maybe not. This issue doesn't really deserve any more words except to say that after all of your talk about double standards, that was an amazing set of comments from you.
Oh.

Thanks?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#196220 Dec 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
In the years preceding your birth America was still regimented from the war and was the sole surviving economic power in the world.
It was still God, guns, and guts.
With the prosperity came chafing at the regimentation and all of your liberal advances, some which got carried away with the rabble rousing for votes. Which is one reason for the push for universal voting. You didn't have to be responsible or productive, you just had to vote for those who would bring you an easier life.
Rebellion against the status quo and egalitarianism without earning it.
Plus the drugs.
Activism and conflict destroyed your America.
You went from marching in formation to a goal to just wandering around the landscape.
Thanks for the heads up there, Dave.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#196221 Dec 26, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. If Redneck thinks that Stalin represents all of atheism, why doesn't he accept that Fred Phelps represents all of Christianity?
I never said Stalin represents all of atheism.

Fred Phelps only represents himself and his church.

Fred Phelps and his church are not all of Christianity.

In fact, most Christians would like to see him at the end of a noose.

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