Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258512 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195405 Dec 23, 2013
Bongo wrote:
Topix atheists have their handbook and refer to it regularly. I was told Catcher was instrumental in writing some of their bylaws.
We get accused of a lot of things on this thread from writing handbooks to genocide. But the bottom line is that what we do is nonviolent, democratic, and legal.

If you have a rebuttal to our message, offer it, and we will let the marketplace of ideas determine who has the better and kinder ideas. If your atheophobic (and homophobic) arguments resonate with people, atheists (and gays) will become even more marginalized. If your arguments offend people, and ours resonate with them instead, it is the church that will suffer the loss of social clout.

Fair enough?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#195406 Dec 23, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Your duck buddy wasn't silenced. He had his say promoting the Christian homophobic agenda, and those that found that unkind and unfair said so,
Let me ask you this: Who has bullied who into the closet? Why do you suppose that it that it is gays in the closet and not Christians?
Just now, at this moment in history, that one-sided relationship is becoming more fair, and look at how you react.
"It seems religion can dish it out okay but it can’t take it - like a street thug who calls the police when his victims fight back" - Pat Condell
<quoted text>
It's not so difficult to understand. Say something derogatory about gays and you will be called a homophobe.
It took RR his entire life do far to admit he is "little bit racist". He will need to be reincarnated a few thousand times before he faces the truth about himself. In the mean time, He will continue to think he is right and everyone else is wrong.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195407 Dec 23, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Niope. They killed for Communism.
There are many christian communists, especially in Sth America. Other countries as well.

Hey mac :)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195408 Dec 23, 2013
Bongo wrote:
If atheists have their way and are left up to their own devices, killing will soon be in vogue?
There you go. Make your best argument - in this case, that we are killers. If it is believable, the fear of atheists will increase, and people may turn to religion more, If not, they'll react otherwise. Wouldn't you agree that that is how it should be?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195409 Dec 23, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
"Nothing in this world is real. The meaning of everything is the meaning I give it. I am who I say I am, and my experience is what I say it is".-Neale Donald Walsch
Unless we're talking about theism and atheists, right? Then the meaning is what YOU insist it is, even when I am telling you what those things means to me.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195410 Dec 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
""The Vibe" Some Deadheads use the term "X Factor" to describe the intangible element that elevates mere performance into something higher.[9] Publicist and Jerry Garcia biographer Blair Jackson stated that "shows were the sacrament ... rich and full of blissful, transcendent musical moments that moved the body and enriched the soul."[10] Phil Lesh himself comments on this phenomenon in his autobiography by saying "The unique organicity of our music reflects the fact that each of us consciously personalized his playing: to fit with what others were playing and to fit with who each man was as an individual, allowing us to meld our consciousnesses together in the unity of a group mind.".[11] Jackson takes this further, citing drummer Mickey Hart as saying "The Grateful Dead weren't in the music business, they were in the transportation business." Jackson relates this to the Deadhead phenomenon directly by saying "for many Deadheads, the band was a medium that facilitated experiencing other planes of consciousness and tapping into deep, spiritual wells that were usually the province of organized religion ...[they] got people high whether those people were on drugs or not." (For more on the spiritual aspect, see Spinners in the section below). It was times like these that the band and the audience would become one; The Grateful Dead and the Deadheads were all in the same state of mind.[12] Rock producer Bill Graham summarized much of the band's effect when he created a sign for the Grateful Dead when the group played the closing of the Winterland Ballroom on December 31, 1978 that read:[13]“They're not the best at what they do, They're the only ones that do what they do. Cheers! Bill & the Winterland Gang ” The "Vibe" of the Grateful Dead is kept alive today by the many festivals that celebrate their traditions."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadhead#.22The_...

You are truly amusing in your intellectual prowess, IANS. It gets stronger with each hit on your bong. A man that worships a band from long ago. Still stuck in the magic he experienced at their feet. One of their faithful marching teddy bears. IANS, for a guru of enlightenment and judge of morality, religions, etc,etc, etc, you don't show me much. And I'm an understanding and optimistic kind of guy. You can imagine what others think of your proselytizing. God, I love beating up on supercilious and arrogant idiots on cold mornings. Enhances the high from my tobacco.
LOL.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195411 Dec 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
But if it doesn't last forever it is not real. It came and it went. It becomes an illusion. All that is left standing is yourself. Which may be out in the middle of nowhere and nothing.
You're quite the philosopher and spiritual genius, Dave.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195412 Dec 24, 2013
Ezekiel 33:8 - When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Romans 13:4 - For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Exodus 31:15 - Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Proverbs 6:17 - A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.

1 Kings 16:18 - And it came to pass, when Zimri saw that the city was taken, that he went into the palace of the king's house, and burnt the king's house over him with fire.

***

No wonder Bucky duck is confused.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195413 Dec 24, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
[QUOTE who="It aint necessarily so"]If you had a legitimate criticism of atheism, you and the rest of Christiandom would have made it by now. All we hear from theists is criticism of murderous totalitarian regimes that have nothing to do with us, and the unflattering and inaccurate descriptions of atheists that your destructive, divisive, and dishonest church spreads - things such as that we have no morals, no sense of purpose, believe nothing, hate your god, etc..That is the church's legacy, and why so many of us see it as a destructive force..
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Ya, ya, ya. All we hear from the Topix Atheist! is how God is evil and Christians burn witches and Christianity has terrible morals and Jesus probably never existed. Where does that leave us?
Is that all you hear? If that's all you got out of this discussion, it probably leaves you where you started.

Aren't you getting anything at all out of your time here?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195414 Dec 24, 2013
BuckCrick wrote:
Stalin killed for atheism
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Stalin killed for Stalin.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
And the Phil guy voiced his opinion to denigrate gays. uh-huh Your double standards are showing..
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You realize, do you not, that that criticism is only valid when two things are sufficiently alike that they should be judged by the same standard. How do you connect these? And what single standard do you think applies to them both?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The double standard is watching the Topix Atheist! say that when a Christian lies, they lie for Jesus. Or when a Christian kills, they kill for their god. Or when a Christian commits genocide, it's Christianity's fault. But when an atheist does the same, it has nothing to do with atheism. Double standard.
What if it is actually the case that Stalin killed for Stalin and the Christians killed for Jesus? Is saying so a double standard?

No. That's not a double standard. That's a different conclusion.

Atheism has nothing to do with killing. Christianity begins with genocide in Genesis (the flood) and ends with it in Revelation (the apocalypse). What is the atheist equivalent of that? All we are is people not willing to accept god claims based on weak evidence. Where is the example to kill there? Where is our equivalent of the angry, judgmental, genocidal god that we feel compelled to obey and even emulate?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195415 Dec 24, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
He's saying that you attribute wrongs such as the words of Phil Robertson to his Christianity, and other atrocities committed by Christians to Christianity, but exempt atheism from the far greater atrocities committed in service to atheism, and that is a double standard.
Atheism doesn't offer any encouragement to berate or marginalize people like Phil's bible does - even your version of it with the positive assertion that gods cannot or do not exist. You have to add in perversion like Stalinism to have any criticism of atheism, which, of course, is only a criticism of Stalinism.

Atheism is not an alternative to Christianity. It is a different category of thing at a different level of genus/species. Atheism is an alternative to theism, two different genuses. Christianity and Islam are two species of theism, and can be compared. Stalinism and secular humanism are two species of atheism and can be compared. And Christianity, Islam, Stalinism and secular humanism are four different ideologies that can be compared.

You make a category error comparing atheism to Christianity. Atheism doesn't exhort to kill any more than theism does.

But Christianity can, if interpreted that way, and many people have done just that.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195416 Dec 24, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Christian doctrine is antithetical to authentic spirituality, the sine qua non of which includes a sense of connectivity to oneself, to one's family and community, to one's fellow man, to all other life, and the to world it all plays out in. Christian philosophy undoes all of those. You are told that you are an alien spirit in a flawed fleshy vessel, a member of a failed and diseased species, and temporarily trapped in a temporary world of base matter that you are to despise like you do your own flesh. You are admonished to remain separate from it all, and to redirect your attention to a hypothetical place outside of the universe, and to a time after your death. How can you develop a sense of spirituality once laden with that?
Dave Nelson wrote:
Separation and alienation from what, IANS? YOUR idea of what the world and existence should be like?
Really? Would it help if I translated it into a different language?

La doctrina cristiana es la antítesis de la espiritualidad auténtica, la condición sine qua non de que incluye un sentido de conectividad para uno mismo, para con la familia y la comunidad, a los demás seres humanos, a otras formas de vida, y de la que el mundo todo se desarrolla pulg filosofía cristiana deshace todos aquellos. Le dicen que usted es un espíritu extraño en un recipiente carnosa defectuoso, un miembro de una especie fallidos y enfermos, y atrapado temporalmente en un mundo temporal de la base de materia que usted es de despreciar, como usted hace su propia carne. Se le exhorta a permanecer separado de todo, y de reorientar su atención a un lugar hipotético fuera del universo, y un tiempo después de su muerte.¿Cómo se puede desarrollar un sentido de la espiritualidad, una vez cargado con eso?

Better?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195417 Dec 24, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's your take on what those words mean - don't hold any idea firmly. I disagree about what it is saying. I think it says that you don't belong in this world, and don't get too settled in.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Very good. You recognize it is all a temporary state of affairs, too.
Perhaps you didn't notice that I contradicted you, not agreed with you.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195418 Dec 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Hot damn! Got my new smartphone. As soon as it thaws out I can start playing. Kewl.
That sounds fascinating, assuming that a smartphone would be willing to play with you.

Incidentally, I don't think you're supposed to freeze it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195419 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki /Che_Guevara Did he kill for Humanism?
You tell me.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195420 Dec 24, 2013
It's interesting to note what a good catholic up bringing will produce.

How did a seminary student become so influential?

***

Background

Josef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, Ioseb Besarionis Dze Jughashvili; Russian: &#1048;&#1086;&#76 9;&#1089;&#1080;&# 1092; &#1042;&#1080;&#10 89;&#1089;&#1072;& #1088;&#1080;&#1086; &#769;&#1085;&#108 6;&#1074;&#1080;&# 1095; &#1044;&#1078;&#10 91;&#1075;&#1072;& #1096;&#1074;&#1080; &#769;&#1083;&#108 0; Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili)(December 18 1878 – March 5, 1953), better known by his adopted name, Joseph Stalin (&#1048;&#1086;&#1 089;&#1080;&#1092; &#1057;&#1090;&#10 72;&#1083;&#1080;& #1085;, Iosif Stalin; stalin meaning "made of steel".

Josef was born to influential Catholic parents Vissarion "Beso" Dzhugashvili and Ekaterina "Keke" Geladze. His father Beso was a successful and relatively wealthy local businessman. However, in later biographies, he is variously described as poor, dirt poor and a violent alcoholic.

Whatever the real truth, Josef was accepted into the Catholic Cappuchin run school at Gori. He graduated in 1892 first in his class and at the age of 14 he was accepted to enter the "Orthodox" Seminary of Tiflis (Tbilisi, Georgia), a Jesuit institution to be trained as a Jesuit priest.

In spite of contrary history written about the Jesuit run Seminary, the Jesuits remained in Russian territory after the order was banned by Alexander I in 1820, maintaining control of several institutions, including the Seminary of Tiflis.

Stalin himself openly admitted the Jesuit control of the institution in his famous interview with Jewish Journalist Emil Ludwig (Cohen):

Ludwig: What impelled you to become an oppositionist? Was it, perhaps, bad treatment by your parents? Stalin: No. My parents were uneducated, but they did not treat me badly by any means. But it was a different matter at the Orthodox theological seminary which I was then attending. In protest against the outrageous regime and the Jesuitical methods prevalent at the seminary, I was ready to become, and actually did become, a revolutionary, a believer in Marxism as a really revolutionary teaching. Ludwig: But do you not admit that the Jesuits have good points? Stalin: Yes, they are systematic and persevering in working to achieve sordid ends. Hut their principal method is spying, prying, worming their way into people's souls and outraging their feelings. What good can there be in that? For instance, the spying in the hostel. At nine o'clock the bell rings for morning tea, we go to the dining-room, and when we return to our rooms we find that meantime a search has been made and all our chests have been ransacked.... What good point can there be in that?

While accounts of his time at Tiflis have been changed many times, it is universally accepted that Stalin was the star pupils of the Seminary. As a result, the events of 1899 remain shrouded in mystery.

In the final week of his studies, having completed seven (7) years as the star pupil of the Jesuits, Stalin is variously claimed to have quit or been expelled. Neither account, adequately explains how a seminary student of seven years, suddenly appeared influential and active in coordinating the Georgian Social-Democratic movement less than 12 months later - an achievement that could not possibly have happened without substantial support.

http://one-evil.org/content/people_20c_stalin...

***

1 Samuel 15:3 - Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

- Slay means murder death kill. The holey babble is full of murder death kill, what a lovely book to read to and make children read, wonder if they go to bed at night, thinking about killing, the alleged god's book encourages it.

***

Do some reading Bucky duck, it won't hurt you, nor will thinking.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195421 Dec 24, 2013
@RR

You better know your stuff on Che dude.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195422 Dec 24, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If you had a legitimate criticism of atheism, you and the rest of Christiandom would have made it by now. All we hear from theists is criticism of murderous totalitarian regimes that have nothing to do with us, and the unflattering and inaccurate descriptions of atheists that your destructive, divisive, and dishonest church spreads - things such as that we have no morals, no sense of purpose, believe nothing, hate your god, etc.. That is the church's legacy, and why so many of us see it as a destructive force..
lightbeamrider wrote:
http://communicatorsinaction.c om/2013/04/14/the-rise-of-theo phobia/ The big questions of life often create significant dividing lines in belief, and how we answer some of those questions often has a ripple effect in our thinking. For example, if you read the essay series by the John Templeton foundation on the question,“Does the Universe Have a Purpose?” many other issues (like the existence of God and the problem of evil) are brought up in the process. As with the dilemma Darwin faced, if man is the product of chance, so is his reason, and if his reason is the product of chance, it is untrustworthy. Yet, at that point, the argument undermines itself: if we cannot trust the human mind, we also cannot trust Darwin’s mind. Thus, the naturalist (i.e. someone who believes the physical universe is all there is), like all other belief systems, must answer the fundamental questions of existence — including our confidence in our own cognitive abilities.
Was that intended as a criticism of atheism? If so, it would be helpful if you would make some kind of positive statement of what your purpose for posting somebody else's words is, and some indication that you understood them.

Who am I to respond to after a post like this? The author that isn't present, or the person who posted it for unknown reasons, who has made no claim about it, and who has an unknown understanding of what it means?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195423 Dec 24, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
We had a prime minister who is an atheist, Julia Gillard.
http://primeministers.naa.gov.au/primeministe...
Under her rule nobody was sent to labor camps, just for criticising her of her policies. And there were plenty of dirty jokes about her in the media. That's democracy.
Thanks for that.

I wonder why she didn't commit genocide - or at least try - if she was without a god belief.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195424 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Yes, but you think you have every reason to disrespect and abuse people of religion.
Your words, not mine or Condell's. What he said was, " ... there's every reason to actively disrespect [religion] to the point of outright abuse. And quite frankly, the fact that religion gets so little abuse compared to what it really deserves, I can only attribute to the unbelievable tolerance, restraint, and plain good manners of atheists and secularists everywhere" - Pat Condell

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