Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258512 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193791 Dec 18, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
The Anti-Christ that will come out of Europe will be Gay.
But you don't hate gays, right?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#193792 Dec 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Buck Crick wrote, "Exactly. For something described so, there is the possibility that it exists. Using the description as proof of nonexistence is a logical error."


I hardly know how to respond to this. You seem to be saying that if I describe something that doesn't exist as I have described it, it actually might exist if I change the description. By that reasoning, my great-great-grandson exists if I mention that I accidentally described him as a fifth generation male descendant when I should have written "electric toaster" instead.

I'm going to have to concede to you that a creator god exists, Buck, although there is a wee error in the description. Change creator to "traffic" and god to "light," and you can see for yourself that it exists right on the corner, alternately shining green, amber and red.
Good post.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193793 Dec 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Describing somebody as a married bachelor, or in any other mutually exclusive terms. If you describe something that actually exists this way, you have made a mistake.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Then there's a mistake when atheists claim the nonexistence of God because they claim He's both prefect and imperfect. Yes/no
The mistake lies in a bible that claims divine authorship by a perfect god for itself, then describes an imperfect god, and is full of self-contradictions,failed prophecies, unkept promises, and errors of scientific and historical fact.

Pointing out that people worshiping that god are worshiping an impossible fiction - an imperfect perfect god - is not the mistake.

You have told us yourself that when a Christian refers to "God," s/he means specifically god of the Christian bible, not a similar god. If you change the description, you might be describing something that actually does exist, but not the same thing.

So, if you are arguing that a god of no specific description may exist, every agnostic atheist like me will agree with you, but will add that that god hasn't contacted us, has no commandments for us, and has made no request to be worshiped.

If you want to argue that the specific god of sin and damnation that the bible claims exists - the one you and other Christians call "God" - sorry. It can't.

Incidentally, this is the kind of conversation that is only possible with a person that has painted himself into a corner trying to defend an obvious error, fib, or other kind of self-contradiction.

"When the philosopher's argument becomes tedious, complicated, and opaque, it is usually a sign that he is attempting to prove as true to the intellect what is plainly false to common senseĀ”- Edward Abbey

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193794 Dec 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Maybe [the reason that there is a perception out there that Christians hate gays is ] because churches, preachers, and Christians make gay people's lives more difficult and dangerous by demeaning them, which makes them feel ashamed and guilty, and forces many to have to remain closeted from their religious family members and employers to avoid ostracism or losing a job. Or maybe it's because churches, preachers, and Christians want to impose their religion's definition of marriage on gay people. Or maybe it's because churches, preachers, and Christians call AIDS their god's revenge, which is the same as saying that a just and loving god deliberately creating and unleashing the AIDS virus is a just and loving act. Whatever the crazy reason people give for why they have the perception that Christians hate gays, it's obviously just hateful anti-Christian bigotry to think such a thing about Christians. They're so misunderstood.
Buck Crick wrote:
I agree. I might be a quibberdick on the definition of marriage being religious. We are in sync on this, but maybe for slightly different reasons. I consider the christian religion bigoted by definition. It's basis is exclusivity. "We have something you don't, and it makes us better". As I have mentioned, the church is infected with such corruption,

gays are about the only people left for them to stone without getting hit with friendly fire.
Atheists have always been easy and favorite targets, and there isn't much blowback yet about a bible that describes us as lying, corrupt, vile, abominable, godless vessels in the service of evil, not one of which does any good, and fit to be burned alive forever as the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. You can't describe the elderly or the handicapped that way, but it's OK if you're talking about an unbeliever like me.

It was an amazing question, though, wasn't it? "Why is there a perception out there that Christians hate gays?"

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193795 Dec 19, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
Good post.
Thanks, Juice.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#193796 Dec 19, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Konnichiwa, Hiding.
A most interesting post, as always.
arigatou!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193797 Dec 19, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Gay people want to marry one another. It is unjust to deny that. Other words and definitions don't change that.
Buck Crick wrote:
That's not really what they want. They can already have everything marriage personally provides.
How can we possibly be having difficulty finding common ground about what gay couples are asking for? What do you think they want if not to marry one another? I can tell you that it's not what is available where gay marriage is not legal.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#193798 Dec 19, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect.
I fully understand my grandparent's culture, it isn't all that different from mine.
The cultural dynamic in question is marriage, which throughout our history has been a man and a women, predominantly.
I'm am trying to force nothing on no one, I'm simply voicing an opinion and sharing views on a free website.
The fact that y'all want us to shut up about it shows your inability to care about what others have to say.
The fact that anyone who dare 'opposes' the thought of gay marriage gets instantly called a bigot is a chicken shit bullying tactic.
I ain't falling for it.
1. I didn't ask you to shut up.

2. You don't speak or write like your grandparents. You didn't share their upbringing, education or times. You already mentioned how your father was a racist - I assume, but could be incorrect, your grandfather was, too.

2a. You are not like them and do not fully understand them.

3. You didn't speak to my point about cross cultural marriage and instead referred to Western history, of which apparently you aren't that familiar.

4. I didn't call you a bigot, but very interesting that you had to scream that you weren't. That's sort of like the homophobe who ends his rant with "and I'm not gay!!!"

So, hahaha! Thanks, that was funny.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#193799 Dec 19, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi, Hiding.
I see you are still full of shit.
It doesn't matter if the legal conception of marriage or sexuality is Christian or Celtic.
It is the agreed-upon status presently consented to by the people of this nation, for most states, and it makes no claim to universality, and none is necessary. Our Constitution imposes no obstacles for the people of Bumfuck Egypt.
AS to your crystal ball prognostications about future events, we will cautiously take them under advisement.
Hey Buck. Nice to see you, too.

None of what you wrote has any relevance to what I wrote. Nice dodge, though.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#193800 Dec 19, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You believe your belief is a better belief.
Didn't see that coming.
Well, if you can't answer to what I wrote, you can always toss some joke in.

I kind of expected your reply and not a serious discussion.

One question: where's the insult? I think you left it out.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#193801 Dec 19, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, bigot.
What's up?.
hahaha!

I'm not a bigot! I'm not a bigot! I just want to restrict the rights of groups of people who aren't like me and thereby add to a structural inequality that supports my group.

I'm not a bigot!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#193802 Dec 19, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
If the agreed-upon definition of marriage were 'only marrying women named Heather', and the laws governing that definition applied equally to both genders, the law would have gender equality.
Your two-step on "gays against gay marriage" was pathetic.
Clearly you don't know what "gender equality" means.

Perhaps you should look it up?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193804 Dec 19, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
They'd also have the blessings of millions of Christians. It's not our job to eternally judge another human being, it's God's job. We're not all gay hating bigots. The stereotype needs to stop already.
It's not about whether all Christians have imbibed the Christian homophobic message.You are correct that many have not.

What it's about is a church that teaches promulgates such a message, and how many people do embrace its message. In my opinion, unbelievers should focus their criticism not on this Christian or that Christian, nor trouble themselves over which ones actually feel the hatred in the church's homophobic message and which are serving as its vector in good faith and good cheer.

The problem is the church - an abstraction comprising not just buildings, bibles and people, but an ideology, a doctrine, a tradition, a history, a mythos, a moral code, a metaphysical system (supernaturalism), an iconograhy, an epistemological choice (fideism), and a system or method for propagating them using buildings, bibles, people, technology, and various psychological techniques.

Regarding, "The stereotype needs to stop already," Christian homophobia is real and should be denounced in no uncertain terms. Getting angry at people like you, Eagle and lighbeamrider for your beliefs, however, is not helpful. It is enough to contradict them where appropriate.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#193805 Dec 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Clearly you don't know what "gender equality" means.

Perhaps you should look it up?
Wonderful to see you!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193806 Dec 19, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
The issue is that gays want homosexuality endorsed, sanctioned, and regarded on equal footing with heterosexuality. It can never have equal footing, by virtue of nature and people.
Nature has no say in it, only culture. We can have a homophobic society, or one in which homosexuality is viewed as a personal preference as valid as heterosexuality and asexuality, and of no interest or concern to others.
Buck Crick wrote:
But that is the agenda.
I won't disagree with that. That is my agenda, too.
Buck Crick wrote:
Let me be clear - I am for gays being treated with respect and dignity and, yes I'll say it,- love. I was a bigot on this. My present attitude is an evolution for me. You, dear, had a role in it. Thank you.
Dear? LOL.

Still, Good to know, and I'm pleased to have been of value to you.
Buck Crick wrote:
I believe all people are spirits in human clothes. Those clothes are heavy and awkward for the spirit when trying to move about. They snag on things. My shoes have their holes. I should regard yours likewise. Peace.
I'm very impressed with this, Buck. Yes, we are all just beings trying to make the best of the situation we awakened one day to find ourselves in, each equipped with different resources and impediments.

We all benefit by being of service to those we can help, and being careful not to make life harder for anybody else. Why would we throw body blocks at people trying to find happiness through acceptance and the ability to pursue happiness their way? And what are we to think of an institution that does, and trains people to help it do that?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193807 Dec 19, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
From a pragmatic view, giving women the vote really screwed things up.
LOL. Who says that dinosaurs are extinct?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193808 Dec 19, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. recently the Mrs. of an 82-year-old man was seriously ill. The entire neighborhood thought she was going to die. As the ambulance pulled away, we watched him cry, held his hand, hugged him. Everyone recognized his grief and supported him ..
.. the next day, myself and two neighbors cleaned their home, washed the dishes and did the dirty laundry while he stayed by his wife's bedside in a hospital 320-miles away ..
.. the good news? The Mrs. will be home tomorrow, she made it. She'll return home to a loving husband, a clean house, a bedroom with scented candles and a television that works (someone fixed it). The entire community rallied around this loving couple ..
.. this is why gay marriage is an imperative. We're all cut from the same cloth and need the support of society in both good and bad times. With time, I think this could happen; you're proof of that because you now understand that marriage is not a social arrangement, it's a spiritual exercise where gender is irrelevant ..
What a beautiful post, little sister.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193809 Dec 19, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
A typical gathering of Topix atheists.
TA 1 "They said.....(fill in blank with quotes from atheist approved authoritative figure, politician, educator, etc).
TA2 "Yeah"
TA3 "Yeah"
TA4 "Yeah"
TA5 "A no brainer, of course"(the intellectual of the group)
TA6 "Homophobes"
TA1-5 "Yeah"
TA3 "Slavery!"
TA1-6, minus 3 who is basking in the response to her enlightened proclamation "Yeah!"
TA5 "Christians are so stoopid"
TA4 "Yuk yuk yuk"
TA1-TA6 "Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk
TA2 "Oops. Gotta reload the bong."
The Topix atheist approach to a happy and enlightened life. Agree with everything your intellectual superiors proclaim and laugh it up. You don't have to be smart to live, nor to think you are.
This is some great writing here, Dave. It's witty and intelligent, like Three's Company
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_y_TIcRevj9w/SnGnaI1...

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#193810 Dec 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
arigatou!
I built on an addition to the trunk HL was keeping you in.

It's much roomier now.

There's room for a TV!

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Santiago, Chile

#193811 Dec 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Buck. Nice to see you, too.
None of what you wrote has any relevance to what I wrote. Nice dodge, though.
Great to have you here, Hiding.

I see you have met the new and improved, kinder and gentler Buck.

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