Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255853 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193645 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
First, I've stolen nothing. So shut that cock holster you call a mouth about Christians stealing something.
Second, we Christians celebrate our God. You atheists claim to not believe in any gods, so how can you justify celebrating Saturn?
It is documented that christianity stole the mid winter celebration and called it christmas. Because you choose to ignore the documented evidence is not my problem

As I said I am celebrating a belief, celebrating a celebration. Why do you feel it your prerogative to sh|t all over it?

After all Saturn has considerably more evidence for existing than your god, at least Saturn can be seen in the nigh sky

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193646 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose you have?
You've made the claim several times that you believe E=MC2 proves God cannot be omnipotent.
You've supplied NOTHING to support that assertion.
Except gases coming from that gaping hole in the front of your face.
Now please, supply some kind of evidence that God is limited to what we call the laws of physics.
Then and only then can your guess be turned into a hypothesis.
So again you have nothing, thanks

I have supplied evidence in the form of E=MC^2 that omnipotence (infinite power/energy) cannot be in this universe and matter exist at the same time. The very fact that you exist means that energy cannot be infinate.

My statement applies to this universe, I have made that abundantly clear on several occasions, it is you making the claim that your god is beyond this universe, so prove it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#193647 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Would you say that non-believers don't believe because it also fills a need?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
You could, but it is straining the meaning of the term "a need," which usually implies an urge rather than a choice based on deliberation, as in, I "need" things to be reasonable and rational.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Paraphrasing: "To most psychologists, need is a psychological feature that arouses an organism to action toward a goal, giving purpose and direction to behavior." I'd say that atheists and theists alike follow their needs and let their needs (and wants) guide them.
OK. Obviously, we use language differently. I don't feel a need to not believe in gods. I feel a need for my ideas and actions to be supported by experience and other evidence, and to make sense. When I do otherwise, I experience a brief dysphoria - my conscience redirecting me.

Given that understanding, I answered your question with a "No." But I wont quibble with you over at what level the issue becomes visceral.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193648 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Insulting?
LMAO!
Merry Christmas.
It does not insult me, I know you get you kicks from partying over a fictitious birth date made up to entice new converts about 400 years AFTER the assumed birth. Enjoy your pagan holidays, you deserve it.

I do however know several Muslims that the phrase insults and several other faiths (including christian faith) to whom the phrase is an insult to your god.

Here is a couple of interesting post I found on Yahoo

“
Jehovah's Witnesses don't [celebrate christmas] because we know that it was originally a pagan holiday,(as are most so-called "Christian" holidays) and celebrating pagan holidays is a sin. The yuletide which celebrated the solstice fell in December and Romans attempted to convert pagans into Christianity by adopting their rituals and symbols. The Christmas tree is also a pagan symbol which we consider a form of idolatry.

None of Jesus' disciples celebrated his birth (the date of which is not even mentioned in the bible) and the only people that celebrated holidays in the bible were pagans. From all accounts Jesus was most likely born in Septebmer-October. Therefore, true Christians are not supposed to take part in "Christmas" or any other pagan originated holiday.
“

and

“
We Jesusonian Christians know that our Sovereign Creator Son of God Jesus Christ actually Incarnated here August 21, 7BC through May 18, AD30. Today He is here worldwide as He the Spirit of Truth.(see John ch 16 and ch 17)

Thus, we celebrate "Christmas" twice per year: Each Aug 21 and also Dec 25.
“

and

“
The Eastern Orthodox Christianity doesn't celebrate Christmas (on Dec. 25th, at least).
“

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#193649 Dec 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you were not looking, Or perhaps you are just being the typical deliberately ignorant buck
I posted the estimated population of the world as supplied by several sources and I posted the estimated population of the US as supplied by the US government
7.2 BILLION
compared to 314 MILLION
So if you want you can call those estimates anecdotal (hearsay and unsubstantiated) but I specifically stated estimated
So the 4th of July is irrelevant to about 95% of the worlds population
I can honestly say that 95% can be termed as most
Your analysis is a screaming mess of non sequitur.

Your conclusion bases relevance on population, and assumes non-citizens of the U.S. see no relevance in the birth of the nation on 4th of July.

That is a fallacious assumption. The 4th of July would be relevant to people of England, since we are now not a colony of them. It would be relevant to a host of other non-citizens of the U.S., including NATO, trade partners, and countries we saved in World Wars.

So again, what is your proof for the statement that the 4th of July is irrelevant to most of the world?

And did you use anecdotal evidence?
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#193650 Dec 18, 2013
Wanna see something strange? Go to page 354 of this thread and look at the dates of the last three posts. Go to the next page and you'll realize there are only twelve posts for all of 2010. What gives?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193651 Dec 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I think I do understand that, and I thank you for helping me see how weak that word is in arguments about what is right and wrong. I want compassion,not something that can be used to justify irrational and mean spirited ideas.
Forget equality. It's not enough. Where does compassion figure into your ethical calculus?
I can't do that. Compassion doesn't come into play when people try to prevent the happiness of other people, selfishness does.

We haven't been discussing compassion, empathy, morals or right & wrong. We've only been discussing the equality that already exists.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193652 Dec 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I think you're correct. Sorry. I didn't try to corroborate it.
No sweat.

The Atheist Mingle was funnier anyway.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193653 Dec 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It is documented that christianity stole the mid winter celebration and called it christmas. Because you choose to ignore the documented evidence is not my problem
As I said I am celebrating a belief, celebrating a celebration. Why do you feel it your prerogative to sh|t all over it?
After all Saturn has considerably more evidence for existing than your god, at least Saturn can be seen in the nigh sky
Yes, and white people enslaved black people. You gonna blame me for that, too? Dumb ass.

Please supply evidence for Saturn the god.

Anytime.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193654 Dec 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So again you have nothing, thanks
I have supplied evidence in the form of E=MC^2 that omnipotence (infinite power/energy) cannot be in this universe and matter exist at the same time. The very fact that you exist means that energy cannot be infinate.
My statement applies to this universe, I have made that abundantly clear on several occasions, it is you making the claim that your god is beyond this universe, so prove it.
Let me try again...

Now please, supply some kind of evidence that God is limited to what we call the laws of physics.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193655 Dec 18, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:

OK. Obviously, we use language differently. I don't feel a need to not believe in gods. I feel a need for my ideas and actions to be supported by experience and other evidence, and to make sense. When I do otherwise, I experience a brief dysphoria - my conscience redirecting me.
Excellent.

Then you must understand that what I believe was an experience with God is my "ideas and actions to be supported by experience and other evidence".
Given that understanding, I answered your question with a "No." But I wont quibble with you over at what level the issue becomes visceral.
FYI - I had to look up dysphoria and visceral.

:)

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193656 Dec 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
It does not insult me
Huh. You said that you don't lie "like RR, Buck and most godbots".....

ChristineM wrote:
Who cares, to 2/3 of the world christmas is irrelevant but that does not stop godbots insulting everyone they meet with merry christmas does it?

You lied.

It does insult you.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#193657 Dec 18, 2013
Anon wrote:
Wanna see something strange? Go to page 354 of this thread and look at the dates of the last three posts. Go to the next page and you'll realize there are only twelve posts for all of 2010. What gives?
There's more like 10.

http://m.topix.com/forum/topstories/TUGI0DVLL...

But that's still very strange.

I guess it was a dead thread then.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#193658 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
There's more like 10.
http://m.topix.com/forum/topstories/TUGI0DVLL...
But that's still very strange.
I guess it was a dead thread then.
Two on the previous page. Maybe you are on meth...

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#193659 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You broke into a sick old man's home?
.. silly you. Nobody locks their doors in my neighborhood. Why, that's almost uncivilized ..

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193660 Dec 18, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Your analysis is a screaming mess of non sequitur.
Your conclusion bases relevance on population, and assumes non-citizens of the U.S. see no relevance in the birth of the nation on 4th of July.
That is a fallacious assumption. The 4th of July would be relevant to people of England, since we are now not a colony of them. It would be relevant to a host of other non-citizens of the U.S., including NATO, trade partners, and countries we saved in World Wars.
So again, what is your proof for the statement that the 4th of July is irrelevant to most of the world?
And did you use anecdotal evidence?
My conclusion allowed for the 314 MILLION citizens of the US (some small few of whom consider the birth of your nation party is irrelevant)

My conclusion bases relevance on population simply because as opposed to chickpeas or elastic bands for example it is population that is relevant.

Note that the 4th of July is not a day of celebration in the UK, the only reason anyone even considers it as any different from the 3rd or the 5th is it’s either their birthday (or similar) or there is a small filler piece in the news. 4th of July just is just as irrelevant to the French as christmas day is to a Muslim.

The odd US citizen living outside US borders is < 1% of the world population and so makes very little difference to the outcome.

Trade continues in the rest of the world no matter if you have a holiday or not. I can assure you that the world does not tuck itself into bed when wall street shuts for the night.

Ahh those you helped in world wars, thanks for reminding us. Nope France celebrates 14th July, been to a couple, great party, the whole country has fun, bugger to get a table in a restaurant though.

So I say again

So if you want you can call those estimates anecdotal (hearsay and unsubstantiated) but I specifically stated estimated
So the 4th of July is irrelevant to about 95% of the worlds population
I can honestly say that 95% can be termed as most

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193661 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and white people enslaved black people. You gonna blame me for that, too? Dumb ass.
Please supply evidence for Saturn the god.
Anytime.
WTF has slavery got to do with the fact that christianity hijacked christmas as a marketing exercise? Or are you referring to the condoning of slavery in the babble?

I could say after you have provided evidence for the abrahamic god but there is actually evidence of saturn so I’ll go first – ok?

http://www.aworldofmyths.com/media/Greek_Gods...

and

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/image/planetary/sa...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193662 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me try again...
Now please, supply some kind of evidence that God is limited to what we call the laws of physics.
Let me repeat for the hard of thinking ;-

My statement applies to this universe, I have made that abundantly clear on several occasions, it is you making the claim that your god is beyond this universe, so prove it.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#193663 Dec 18, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>

Every statement I made has been scientifically analysed and proven...
OK. Let's see. Here is one set of your statements, which you say are "scientifically analysed and proven":

1. Christine: "The only thing that IDers claim that science cannot physically prove is the actual initial bang itself."

False. IDers maintain that random mutation and natural selection alone is not a sufficient explanation of all biological innovation.

IDers also claim that science has not identified the source of genetic code, although scientists claim that they have. Example:

"Although Yarus et al. claim that the DRT model undermines an intelligent design explanation for the origin of the genetic code, the model’s many shortcomings in fact illustrate the insufficiency of undirected chemistry to construct the semantic system represented by the code we see today." -Stephen Meyer and Paul Nelson

2. Christine: " However unlike IDers, science can and does use mathematics to test its theories."

False. IDers also use mathematics to test their theories. William Dembski, "The Design Inference":

" I(B|A), like I(A&B), I(A), and I(B), can be represented as the negative logarithm to the base two of a probability, only this time the probability under the logarithm is a conditional as opposed to an unconditional probability. By definition I(B|A)=def -log2P(B|A), where P(B|A) is the conditional probability of B given A. But since P(B|A)=def P(A&B)/P(A), and since the logarithm of a quotient is the difference of the logarithms, log2P(B|A)= log2P(A&B)- log2P(A), and so -log2P(B|A)=-log2P(A&B)+ log2P(A), which is just I(B|A)= I(A&B)- I(A)."

3. Christine: " In the words of one leading cosmologist 'We cannot be sure exactly what caused the big bang but one thing is certain, no god did it'"

False. First of all, this contradicts Christine's claim that every statement has been scientifically tested and proven, for obvious reasons.

Second, her anonymous "cosmologist" is a liar. He is not "certain no god did it, because such certainty is impossible.

As Leonard Mladinow, a real scientist and quantum physicist, and atheist said,

"Science cannot tell you whether the existence of god is true or not true".
__________

I don't need to proceed similarly, Christine, through the rest of your claims, as this small portion proves you a liar.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#193664 Dec 18, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh. You said that you don't lie "like RR, Buck and most godbots".....
ChristineM wrote:
Who cares, to 2/3 of the world christmas is irrelevant but that does not stop godbots insulting everyone they meet with merry christmas does it?
You lied.
It does insult you.
Ahh so you consider that everyone you meet is me, Is that diety worship?

Honey I could not care less who you try and insult or about what you celebrate just so long as you tell the truth about what you are celebrating. I realise that is a wee bit beyond the average Christian put for Saturn’s sake please try.

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